204 réponses à ce sujet

[kraidy1117]

MarginalBeast wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
Hell she only shows her emotions for you very late in the game which I liked.

Um, that can also be applied to Thane, Garrus, and Jack as well.

Garrus does not shoow emotion, its about sex.......

I just don't like Jack's apperince, while some mightl ike it I don't. Thane is my second fav.

[intersect]

For me tali's was built up over the entire course of me1 and it was nice to start off with building upon feelings that were already there in me2 rather than having no interest for 4 convos and suddenly want to have sex with shepard on the fifth

[kraidy1117]

MarginalBeast wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
Hell she only shows her emotions for you very late in the game which I liked.

Um, that can also be applied to Thane, Garrus, and Jack as well.

Also, I wish people would stop throwing the word "fling" around. NONE OF THE ROMANCES ARE FLINGS.

Yes they are, if Jacob is not a fling then I am a walrus.

[Cascadus]

I still don't get how Garrus's is about sex. It starts about 'stress relief' but develops from there and ultimately culminates NOT into 'flexibility and reach' but rather real trust and romance, and again, it's implied they don't even actually DO the deed.
And how does Garrus not show emotion? His dialogue ranks up with Tali's and Jack's for most heartfelt and genuine. I like Miranda, though it always felt rather... stagnant for me.

Modifié par Cascadus, 08 mars 2010 - 04:15 .

[kraidy1117]

Cascadus wrote...

I still don't get how Garrus's is about sex. It starts about 'stress relief' but develops from there and ultimately culminates NOT into 'flexibility and reach' but rather real trust and romance.
And how does Garrus not show emotion? His dialogue ranks up with Tali's and Jack's for most heartfelt and genuine. I like Miranda, though it always felt rather... stagnant for me.

Not to me, as I said I view Garrus as a friend, not as a LI. For some people Garrus is for them, for me it's Miri because I perfered how she was handled.

[Tinnic]

MarginalBeast wrote...

JThompson6577 wrote...

Cascadus wrote...

Actually, I think it's important to note that Garrus's 'sex' scene is the only one where it's implied where they don't actually do much anything concerning 'cross-species intercourse'.

Um... Jack's Paragon scene ends with both still fully clothed cuddling on the bed.  Unless they put their clothes back on during the after glow, Jack and Shep didn't do much in the way of knocking boots.

I'm 99% certain that every romance scene involved sex, whether it was shown or not.

Maybe, MAYBE there wasn't actually any sex in Garrus' romance scene. It's impossible to tell because BioWare decided not to give any post-suicide mission romantic dialogue to any characters other than Tali and Jacob. But I still think they probably had sex.

Thane's post-suicide mission dialogue was pretty good. I mean, when you first approach him he makes a comment about your decision regarding the collector base, but then when you select "have you got a minute to talk", it's pretty romantic. At least I thought so and I hear the break-up scene with Thane is one of the most heart ripping. I have seen it, it's a tear-jerker but I haven't seen the others, so don't know if Thane's is the "worst" so to speak.

[JThompson6577]

intersect wrote...

For me tali's was built up over the entire course of me1 and it was nice to start off with building upon feelings that were already there in me2 rather than having no interest for 4 convos and suddenly want to have sex with shepard on the fifth

Now, I know I'm risking the wrath of the Tailb-  Ahem, Talimancers but I honestly felt very big brotherish to Tali, and Garus for that matter, during ME 1.  To the point that I fumbled my controler when I was talking to her and she made a pass at me.  It was very much like someone's kid sister made a pass at you.

[Lemonwizard]

To be honest, I thought the Tali romance had entirely too much build up, considering how heavily it's implied in much of the interaction with her, regardless of whether or not you're even doing the romance at all. Much of her dialogue in her loyalty mission, the wistful "I wish shepard were here" journal, etc.





Especially the "I did get better. I got you." line, which, while one of the game's most heartwarming moments within the context of the Tali romance, seems very out of place if you're Femshep or you're courting somebody else.

[MarginalBeast]

kraidy1117 wrote...

MarginalBeast wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
Hell she only shows her emotions for you very late in the game which I liked.

Um, that can also be applied to Thane, Garrus, and Jack as well.

Also, I wish people would stop throwing the word "fling" around. NONE OF THE ROMANCES ARE FLINGS.

Yes they are, if Jacob is not a fling then I am a walrus.

Considering that Jacob talks about staying with Shepard in his romantic dialogue after the suicide mission?

Yes, you are a walrus.


And Garrus probably showed more genuine emotion in his final romance scene than everyone except for Thane and Jack. In fact, that is probably the only scene in the entire game where he really opens up to Shepard.

[intersect]

ah, yeah some people felt that way. I always thought of tali as a crush, and garrus is one of my best buddies.

[kraidy1117]

MarginalBeast wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

MarginalBeast wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
Hell she only shows her emotions for you very late in the game which I liked.

Um, that can also be applied to Thane, Garrus, and Jack as well.

Also, I wish people would stop throwing the word "fling" around. NONE OF THE ROMANCES ARE FLINGS.

Yes they are, if Jacob is not a fling then I am a walrus.

Considering that Jacob talks about staying with Shepard in his romantic dialogue after the suicide mission?

Yes, you are a walrus.


And Garrus probably showed more genuine emotion in his final romance scene than everyone except for Thane and Jack. In fact, that is probably the only scene in the entire game where he really opens up to Shepard.

So you like to talk like a sleeze to a man who thinks Miri perfers a better man then him, and his lines are just utter crap. He also views her as a prize? Ya thats not a fling, thats a great romance plot. I have made my point on Garrus, I view him as a friend, and I am not into peopel like Jack. I like Thane and miris romance better.

[MarginalBeast]

kraidy1117 wrote...
So you like to talk like a sleeze to a man who thinks Miri perfers a better man then him, and his lines are just utter crap. He also views her as a prize? Ya thats not a fling, thats a great romance plot.

No, I do not like being forced to talk like a sleaze to Jacob. I hate Jacob's romance.

Still doesn't make it a fling. A fling is having sex once and then it's over. You're done. Jacob clearly wants to stay in a relationship with Shepard. Hence, it is not a fling.

kraidy1117 wrote...
I have made my point on Garrus, I view him as a friend, and I am not into peopel like Jack. I like Thane and miris romance better.

It's fine if you don't like Garrus' romance. But you're just plain wrong if you say it lacks emotion or is only about the sex.

I view Tali as a friend, but you don't see me putting down her romance subplot.

Modifié par MarginalBeast, 08 mars 2010 - 04:32 .

[kraidy1117]

MarginalBeast wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
So you like to talk like a sleeze to a man who thinks Miri perfers a better man then him, and his lines are just utter crap. He also views her as a prize? Ya thats not a fling, thats a great romance plot.

No, I do not like being forced to talk like a sleaze to Jacob. I hate Jacob's romance.

Still doesn't make it a fling. A fling is having sex once and then it's over. You're done. Jacob clearly wants to stay in a relationship with Shepard. Hence, it is not a fling.

kraidy1117 wrote...
I have made my point on Garrus, I view him as a friend, and I am not into peopel like Jack. I like Thane and miris romance better.

It's fine if you don't like Garrus' romance. But you're just plain wrong if you say it lacks emotion or is only about the sex.

I view Tali as a friend, but you don't see me putting down her romance subplot.

I am not putting his romance down.. I am just saying it sounds more like he just wants sex, I only did his romance once so maybe I was not paying attention.

[enormousmoonboots]

kraidy1117 wrote...

MarginalBeast wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
So you like to talk like a sleeze to a man who thinks Miri perfers a better man then him, and his lines are just utter crap. He also views her as a prize? Ya thats not a fling, thats a great romance plot.

No, I do not like being forced to talk like a sleaze to Jacob. I hate Jacob's romance.

Still doesn't make it a fling. A fling is having sex once and then it's over. You're done. Jacob clearly wants to stay in a relationship with Shepard. Hence, it is not a fling.

kraidy1117 wrote...
I have made my point on Garrus, I view him as a friend, and I am not into peopel like Jack. I like Thane and miris romance better.

It's fine if you don't like Garrus' romance. But you're just plain wrong if you say it lacks emotion or is only about the sex.

I view Tali as a friend, but you don't see me putting down her romance subplot.

I am not putting his romance down.. I am just saying it sounds more like he just wants sex, I only did his romance once so maybe I was not paying attention.

You weren't.

This sounds like a guy who was only in it for sex?

[DuffyMJ]

The loyalty missions are basically a part of the romance, in my opinion. With Tali, especially, you're like becoming way more than a friend when you're advocating for her all A Few Good Men-style, and also the whole situation with her dad's death and everything. I mean with Tali you've pretty much done two loyalty quests, actually, because the battle of the armstrong nebula or whatever was pretty much a quest to get her through her pilgrimage in part 1. so that's what I feel about the whole thing. I also interpreted the events in Miranda's quest as somewhat romantic too... especially if you consider the email you get from Miranda's sister after the quest is complete. And Jack.. well.. I hate Jack, so I don't care.

[Urazz]

XX55XX wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...

Yeah, I never really LIKED liked the romances in ME1.  It was more just "Well, it's there.  Might as well do it."  I can't imagine actually looking for the ME1 romance conversations on YouTube to play them back and enjoy them, which I've done for a couple ME2 romances.  

ME2 does them much better, though I wish there could have been 2-3 more conversations for each, just to flesh them out a bit more.  But there's only so much space you want to devote to what is, in the end, a very small part of the overarching experience, despite how much text they get devoted to them on these boards.  

But, regardless, the conversations and the pacing was so much better - there was actually a degree of buildup... a curve before the bed scene. In ME2, the bed scene occurred at a 90 degree angle from the start of the romance.

It's also a matter of who you are romancing and when you do their loyalty mission.  The romance starts after you do the loyalty mission so the pace of some character's romance is more crappier than others since you get their loyalty mission later than the others.

Part of the problem of the romances in ME2 is that there is a limited amount of dialogue with the characters compared to ME1 (though Miranda, Jack, Jacob, and Thane have alot more compared to Tali and Garrus as LIs) and the rate in which you can get that dialogue is pretty quick if you talk to the LI after every mission/loyalty mission so that also screws up the pace of the romance as well.

I felt Jack's and Miranda's romances were pretty good if you tried to space out the talks with them a bit more and do their loyalty mission a bit later than as soon as possible.

But yeah, the loyalty missions are basically part of the romance as well with the LIs.

Modifié par Urazz, 08 mars 2010 - 04:46 .

[ODST Soldier]

 Honestly I feel like it might vary for certain characters. New characters introduced into ME2 do seem rushed into a relationship and limited interaction if you compare it to ME1, but Tali for example has had feelings for Shepard since ME1 but was to scare to act on them so I can't say that that relationship falls under rushed. In addition the romances just seem to fall flat because they just are options if the player chooses to participate in one. I would like to see the romance subplots to play a more active role in the main story rather then just being their for an option. For example if you had a romance with Liara and then Thane their should a large conflict in ME3 that would affect their loyalty, maybe a mini battle between your love interest from ME1 and ME2. 

Modifié par ODST Soldier, 08 mars 2010 - 04:54 .

[Urazz]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Cascadus wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
Garrus which sounded like a fling (I love Garrus as a bromance but as a LI it was just bad)

Garrus's romance was adorably awkward and possibly my favourite one. I really don't know how you could say he's a bad LI. Again, it wasn't actually implied that Garrus and Shepard ended up knockin' boots prior to the jaunt into the Omega-4 Relay. Although it's very hard to tell considering there was no allusion to it after the Collector Base.

I just did't like it, I prefer him as a bromance, hell even Tali I picture her more of a sister character. Jack and Thane will be very tragic if you can't cure them. Then we got Jacob as a toatl fling. Sigh looks like Miri is only for me.

Yeah, same here.  I don't think they were badly written romances but from a game of not ever thinking of them as a romance options or ever getting a hint of it  leading to that just sort of lead them into that category for me that it feels more awkward for me to romance them on any of my Shepards (have watched all the romance videos with them though).

Jacob was rushed as a LI I feel.  Alot of his nonromantic dialogue lines felt like they fit better with a male Shepard than a female Shepard.  The line about Miranda needing a better man than him after his loyalty mission is a good example.  For a man to say that about about an ex-girlfriend in front of another woman he is interested in is not a good way to get her interested in you.  I feel Jacob was more designed as another bromance character for male Shepard than as a LI for female Shepard.

Hell, that's one problem I feel the female Shepard playthrough has in general (though most of it is with Jacob I think).  Some of the lines sound like they were just designed for Male Shepard more than Female Shepard.  My guess is that they designed the game with male Shepard in mind and tweak it for female Shepard but miss some parts so it can sound awkward.

Modifié par Urazz, 08 mars 2010 - 04:58 .

[Tyreal42a]

It applies to most of the romances, I think.



I do recall Tali saying something like 'I was going to bring music, but I didn't know what you'd like.' That amused me because you would think she could have at least gotten to know Shep a bit and found out something like that before deciding it was time to sleep with him.



Not to mention, I played the same song over and over in my cabin, so it should have been obvious.

[JeanLuc761]

Sorry OP, I have to disagree with you completely.  I actually felt the pacing in ME1 was decent/poor while the pacing in ME2 was exceptional (in most cases).

Let's take a look at all of them (from the perspective of a male Shepard), shall we?

Ashley Williams: 
The actual romantic interest starts almost immediately if you're nice to her (Bioware didn't animate those pouty lips and sly looks for nothing).  Literally, right after you rescue her from Eden Prime she shows she's attracted to you.  This continues on the citadel with her little quip that the Commander would never see her "putting
on a tinfoil hat and miniskirt."  The next time she shows interest is when her sister calls.  I'll admit, this one was nice because we got to learn about her family and she grew into more of a character.  However, we also learn that she's more than a bit racist.  And really...what else do we really get to do with her?  After that, we learn a little bit more then we get right to knocking boots before the final mission.  Decently paced, but not great.

Liara T'Soni:  Liara, same thing. Literally the first conversation you have with her on the Normandy leads into how amazing and compelling she finds you.  Hell, they begin discussing a relationship right away! Way. Too. Fast.  This continues into the next major conversation and this one discusses how Asari's have sex. Seriously, two conversations and we're discussing third base? Third conversation...well, here we go. Knockin boots time. It's way too damn fast.

Miranda Lawson:
Like most romances in ME2, the pacing for Miranda was quite good.  At first, she didn't trust you but gradually begins to accept your command. Her loyalty mission is the big turning point (naturally), but it does a rather nice job of making her feelings toward you seem more natural. This is the first sign that she cares. The next big conversation discusses how impressed she is with Shepard's ability and loyalty to the mission, and she talks about how he's a better human than her, even with her “perfect upgrades.” I especially like how this conversation ends with their little flirtatious “admiring.” Later, she confronts you with how wrong this feels, but they end up admitting to each other that they want to be together. It's a surprisingly touching scene (even with Shepard's “I
just want to get you into bed!” line). There's one last confirmation of the relationship, then they do the deed. Overall, it was much better than I had anticipated and the pacing was really great; far better than any of the romances in ME1.

Tali'Zorah:
Tali's romance was my personal favorite as it has the best pacing out of any other romance (plus I like her). You already have all your experiences in the first game going for you which serves as a foundation for her feelings for you (and yours for her).  This is further driven home on her recruit mission where several hints are dropped (“I wish Shepard were here...”) that she cares for you. There's another couple conversations you have with her before her loyalty mission where you get to know her a bit better.  They're well paced and neither party is jumping into things. During Tali's loyalty mission, you build an incredible emotional connection with her and go through an exceptional amount of personal turmoil.  If you choose to defend her, this not only cements her loyalty to you, but your loyalty to her. I like how this is handled because it's a relationship based upon devotion to one another, for who that person is. The romance starts after her loyalty mission, and it's nothing major. She express her interest in you and you can do so in return. It's fun and flirtatious without coming on too strongly.  The next convo brings you two together, saying that Shepard is willing to wait for her, as long as it takes. This isn't (just) about sex, this is about transcending the physical barriers that hold them apart and it further drives home that these two are devoted to each other. The next talk has Tali telling you how much she appreciates your patience, and really shows how much she wants to be with him. The climax of the relationship is handled very well as Tali get's flustered but is quickly overcome with joy when her mask is finally removed. Expertly paced and very believable in the context of the storyline.

Jack:
Jack is paced very differently than any of the other romances.  Since she's so inexperienced with honest human contact, she automatically takes any pleasantness as a sign that all you're trying to do is get her into bed. She even says something along the lines of “People are only nice when they want something.” This gives great insight into her character and it develops further interest for the player. As things progress, she gradually lets down her defensiveness. This really shows when she discusses her last boyfriend, who “used her like the rest.” It adds a reason to care for her, and it shows she isn't as emotionally tough as she tries to pretend to be. The final romance scene with her is utterly fantastic, probably the most emotionally charged in the entire game.  Jack finally let's herself feel true emotion for the first time in a great while, even to the point of crying. She tells you that she really needs the comfort of another person, and the nice thing is that they don't have sex purely for the sake of having sex...it's a real connection between Shepard and Jack. Again, very well paced and very well written.

Ordinarily I'd say it comes down to personal preference but the ME2 romances are provably better paced than the ones from ME1, with the possible exception of Jacob. Now, if you happen to likeAshley or Liara more than the romance options in ME2, that's fine. But the buildup was not nearly as good as the sequel.

Now then, I've put way too much thought into this...I should save it for other conversations like this >_>

Modifié par JeanLuc761, 08 mars 2010 - 06:10 .

[InvaderErl]

Tyreal42a wrote...

It applies to most of the romances, I think.

I do recall Tali saying something like 'I was going to bring music, but I didn't know what you'd like.' That amused me because you would think she could have at least gotten to know Shep a bit and found out something like that before deciding it was time to sleep with him.

Not to mention, I played the same song over and over in my cabin, so it should have been obvious.

Yes, because the sharing of iPods must occur before sex.

[Landline]

The only thing that bothered me about the ME2 romances is that there is an "on/off" switch for them that you can audibly hear click if you know what to look for.



Wasn't really an issue the first time I played it, but it does break the immersion a wee bit now that I can hear it. But... What can one do? Not like they had many other ways to do it.

[Pauravi]

XX55XX wrote...

This applies especially to Tali's romance. I mean, it's cute and all, but the pacing could have been so much better.

There is very little buildup to the romance, unlike what we experienced with Ashley in ME1. Basically, you come up to Tali, and suddenly she is asking if Shepard could bang her...

..

Thoughts?

Yeah, here is my thought: this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, and it is completely wrong.
JeanLuc enumerated basically every reason.

The ME2 romances are handled and paced so much better it is unbelievable.

In ME1, all Ashley ever does is talk to you about her family.  There isn't even an "I'm interested in you" moment, like there was with the characters of ME2 -- there is absolutely no dialogue that wouldn't take place between friends getting to know each other.  When she said to me, "So are you still interested in me?" , I wanted a dialogue option that said, "Hey, what the hell?  Let me out of here!"  But no, all you can do is agree to "be with her" in 3 different ways.  Liara is only slightly better in that she at least asks you if you are interested.  She at least shows real concern for you, but she shows it IMMEDIATELY after you rescue her.  The most depth any conversation with Liara has is comforting her about her mother, which happens whether you're romancing or not.

Basically neither of the ME1 characters have any emotional build up -- they just like you all of a sudden.

Modifié par Pauravi, 08 mars 2010 - 06:43 .