204 réponses à ce sujet

[Ski Mask Wei]

I agree with the OP for the most part. Ashley and Kaiden's romances were much better paced, but Liara's? Right on par with ME2's but at least they had the 100 year old virgin excuse. Most of ME2's romances go from 0-60 too fast and you barely get to know the characters (G and T excluded). No romance moment in ME2 impressed me like those seemingly inane conversations you have with Ash in ME1. By the time they did the deed I really felt like I knew her and I knew more things about her other than "she wants me, she wants me, 'cuz I got it all shorty, tell me what you don't see."

I'll give ME2 a plus in the fact it definitely would be easier for Shepard to get laid. That's definitely realistic. Nothing gets the armored panties/boxers dropping faster than saving the galaxy. Shepard knows s/he can have damn near anybody s/he wants. Just one the perks of fame and that probably explains Femsheps interactions with Jacob. Hell, a woman of Femshep's caliber would be HARD to approach for any except the most confident men so she probably would have to take the lead in some instances.

Modifié par Ski Mask Wei, 08 mars 2010 - 07:21 .

[lordstranger]

JeanLuc761 wrote...




Sorry OP, I have to disagree with you completely.  I actually felt the pacing in ME1 was decent/poor while the pacing in ME2 was exceptional (in most cases).

Let's take a look at all of them (from the perspective of a male Shepard), shall we?

Ashley Williams: 
The actual romantic interest starts almost immediately if you're nice to her (Bioware didn't animate those pouty lips and sly looks for nothing).  Literally, right after you rescue her from Eden Prime she shows she's attracted to you.  This continues on the citadel with her little quip that the Commander would never see her "putting
on a tinfoil hat and miniskirt."  The next time she shows interest is when her sister calls.  I'll admit, this one was nice because we got to learn about her family and she grew into more of a character.  However, we also learn that she's more than a bit racist.  And really...what else do we really get to do with her?  After that, we learn a little bit more then we get right to knocking boots before the final mission.  Decently paced, but not great.

Liara T'Soni:  Liara, same thing. Literally the first conversation you have with her on the Normandy leads into how amazing and compelling she finds you.  Hell, they begin discussing a relationship right away! Way. Too. Fast.  This continues into the next major conversation and this one discusses how Asari's have sex. Seriously, two conversations and we're discussing third base? Third conversation...well, here we go. Knockin boots time. It's way too damn fast.

Miranda Lawson:
Like most romances in ME2, the pacing for Miranda was quite good.  At first, she didn't trust you but gradually begins to accept your command. Her loyalty mission is the big turning point (naturally), but it does a rather nice job of making her feelings toward you seem more natural. This is the first sign that she cares. The next big conversation discusses how impressed she is with Shepard's ability and loyalty to the mission, and she talks about how he's a better human than her, even with her “perfect upgrades.” I especially like how this conversation ends with their little flirtatious “admiring.” Later, she confronts you with how wrong this feels, but they end up admitting to each other that they want to be together. It's a surprisingly touching scene (even with Shepard's “I
just want to get you into bed!” line). There's one last confirmation of the relationship, then they do the deed. Overall, it was much better than I had anticipated and the pacing was really great; far better than any of the romances in ME1.

Tali'Zorah:
Tali's romance was my personal favorite as it has the best pacing out of any other romance (plus I like her). You already have all your experiences in the first game going for you which serves as a foundation for her feelings for you (and yours for her).  This is further driven home on her recruit mission where several hints are dropped (“I wish Shepard were here...”) that she cares for you. There's another couple conversations you have with her before her loyalty mission where you get to know her a bit better.  They're well paced and neither party is jumping into things. During Tali's loyalty mission, you build an incredible emotional connection with her and go through an exceptional amount of personal turmoil.  If you choose to defend her, this not only cements her loyalty to you, but your loyalty to her. I like how this is handled because it's a relationship based upon devotion to one another, for who that person is. The romance starts after her loyalty mission, and it's nothing major. She express her interest in you and you can do so in return. It's fun and flirtatious without coming on too strongly.  The next convo brings you two together, saying that Shepard is willing to wait for her, as long as it takes. This isn't (just) about sex, this is about transcending the physical barriers that hold them apart and it further drives home that these two are devoted to each other. The next talk has Tali telling you how much she appreciates your patience, and really shows how much she wants to be with him. The climax of the relationship is handled very well as Tali get's flustered but is quickly overcome with joy when her mask is finally removed. Expertly paced and very believable in the context of the storyline.

Jack:
Jack is paced very differently than any of the other romances.  Since she's so inexperienced with honest human contact, she automatically takes any pleasantness as a sign that all you're trying to do is get her into bed. She even says something along the lines of “People are only nice when they want something.” This gives great insight into her character and it develops further interest for the player. As things progress, she gradually lets down her defensiveness. This really shows when she discusses her last boyfriend, who “used her like the rest.” It adds a reason to care for her, and it shows she isn't as emotionally tough as she tries to pretend to be. The final romance scene with her is utterly fantastic, probably the most emotionally charged in the entire game.  Jack finally let's herself feel true emotion for the first time in a great while, even to the point of crying. She tells you that she really needs the comfort of another person, and the nice thing is that they don't have sex purely for the sake of having sex...it's a real connection between Shepard and Jack. Again, very well paced and very well written.

Ordinarily I'd say it comes down to personal preference but the ME2 romances are provably better paced than the ones from ME1, with the possible exception of Jacob. Now, if you happen to likeAshley or Liara more than the romance options in ME2, that's fine. But the buildup was not nearly as good as the sequel.

Now then, I've put way too much thought into this...I should save it for other conversations like this >_>

good summery

[Chuvvy]

shnizzler93 wrote...
After all, they did save the Citadel and the Council (or not) together,

No we didn't she sat in the engine room the whole game. Talked to her once.

Garrus,Wrex and I saved the Galaxy.

Modifié par Slidell505, 08 mars 2010 - 02:39 .

[Chuvvy]

xedgorex wrote...

Yeah who wishes you could actually complete the Samara romance

Me,the almost romance was good though. Better than the other full romances I think.

[Barquiel]

Well, I agree with the OP but I would exclude Miranda. I think she has the best romance in both ME games (although she isn't my favourite character). Jacob and Tali are the worst imo.

[FataliTensei]

XX55XX wrote...

This applies especially to Tali's romance. I mean, it's cute and all, but the pacing could have been so much better.

There is very little buildup to the romance, unlike what we experienced with Ashley in ME1. Basically, you come up to Tali, and suddenly she is asking if Shepard could bang her... I admire her drive, but not her complete lack of subtlety. It also seems so unlike her character - she demonstrates her awkwardness when it comes to romance, and it shows, but couldn't she have put off talk about sex until she managed to establish a relationship with Shepard?

Don't know what the rest of you guys think - but BioWare rushed the romances a little bit this time around. They're still good... but they could have been better.

I've seen videos of Jacob's romance, and it appears to be the same thing - Jacob comes up to Shepard and asks for sex, albeit in a more subtle way than Tali did.

Thoughts?

Oh yeah I agree, the romances felt rushed and actually a bit sloppy in some cases, it's just another example of ME2 being pushed out the door a bit early

[XX55XX]

Slidell505 wrote...

shnizzler93 wrote...
After all, they did save the Citadel and the Council (or not) together,

No we didn't she sat in the engine room the whole game. Talked to her once.

Garrus,Wrex and I saved the Galaxy.

Unfortunately, the game doesn't take that into account.

[InvaderErl]

I think you'd be asking for a bit much if you expected the game to take into account your party set up.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Overall I found the ME1 romances to be far superior. Better paced and with better characters. As much I personally might dislike the ME2 romances, I think its clear that not that much seperates the two. Personally I think they were missing something along the lines of when the ME1 LI comes to comfort Shepard after s/he is grounded. I also felt the romance coversations in number and depth were inferior in ME2.



I dont know what take its going to be on romances in ME3, but I sure hope it doesnt follow ME2s example. Thats not even counting how on earth are they going to resolve each individual romance. Im hoping there is going to be some inequality in the resolutions. I dont see why all have to be cameod for "fairness", since all of them having large squadmate roles again is too much to ask really.

[Chuvvy]

InvaderErl wrote...

I think you'd be asking for a bit much if you expected the game to take into account your party set up.

Well I didn't recruite her in one ME2 playthrough wonder what will happend in ME3

[macrocarl]

I hope that ME3 takes more time to build up a relationship by maybe breaking up the whole thing differently. I thought the romances in ME2 were more of a reboot since ME's romance was kind of fast. Both ME and ME2 had Shep talking, flirting, loyalty, more flirting, and then a cut scene. I'd like more intimate cut scenes in ME3 and less flirtiness. I'm not saying that the cut scenes should be about sex, but just more intimate. Bioware can write that type of thing well so I hopethey give us the goods IMHO.

[JeanLuc761]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...Overall I found the ME1 romances to be far superior. Better paced and with better characters. As much I personally might dislike the ME2 romances, I think its clear that not that much seperates the two. Personally I think they were missing something along the lines of when the ME1 LI comes to comfort Shepard after s/he is grounded. I also felt the romance coversations in number and depth were inferior in ME2..

Don't make me quote my brick wall of text from earlier in this thread.  I hate to be on the offensive in threads like this but you are provably wrong if you think the romances in ME1 were better developed than they were in ME2. 

It took 2-3 conversations with your LI for them to start talking about a relationship, one last "confirmation," then you did the deed.  Liara was even quicker by bringing up a relationship literally the very instant you bring her onto the ship.  That's not good pacing, not by a mile.

ME2 has 2-3 conversations and the entirety of their loyalty mission before they even consider a relationship, and even then you have to have another 2-4 conversations with them before the romance reaches its climax.  Every single one is better paced than anything in ME1, and if I have to quote myself from earlier in this thread to prove it, I will.

I'm sorry, but everyone who thinks ME1 had better pacing is looking through rose-tinted nostalgia glasses.

[IoCaster]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...Overall I found the ME1 romances to be far superior. Better paced and with better characters. As much I personally might dislike the ME2 romances, I think its clear that not that much seperates the two. Personally I think they were missing something along the lines of when the ME1 LI comes to comfort Shepard after s/he is grounded. I also felt the romance coversations in number and depth were inferior in ME2..

Don't make me quote my brick wall of text from earlier in this thread.  I hate to be on the offensive in threads like this but you are provably wrong if you think the romances in ME1 were better developed than they were in ME2. 

It took 2-3 conversations with your LI for them to start talking about a relationship, one last "confirmation," then you did the deed.  Liara was even quicker by bringing up a relationship literally the very instant you bring her onto the ship.  That's not good pacing, not by a mile.

ME2 has 2-3 conversations and the entirety of their loyalty mission before they even consider a relationship, and even then you have to have another 2-4 conversations with them before the romance reaches its climax.  Every single one is better paced than anything in ME1, and if I have to quote myself from earlier in this thread to prove it, I will.

I'm sorry, but everyone who thinks ME1 had better pacing is looking through rose-tinted nostalgia glasses.

I usually avoid these threads because I find the very idea of obsessing over make believe romances with digital creations to be exceptionally creepy. I was drawn to this thread from sheer boredom and morbid curiosity. I'll hasten to add that I'm not trying to be needlessly offensive and I hope you don't take this the wrong way.

I think that it's particularly boorish to declare that your opinion is provably more correct than any other posters subjective view of what constitutes a, "far superior romance", in either game. After all, it's rather dependent on what criteria are utilized in making that type of determination. 

Now I'll gracefully exit this thread, never to return. Have fun folks.

[JeanLuc761]

IoCaster wrote...

I usually avoid these threads because I find the very idea of obsessing over make believe romances with digital creations to be exceptionally creepy. I was drawn to this thread from sheer boredom and morbid curiosity. I'll hasten to add that I'm not trying to be needlessly offensive and I hope you don't take this the wrong way.

I think that it's particularly boorish to declare that your opinion is provably more correct than any other posters subjective view of what constitutes a, "far superior romance", in either game. After all, it's rather dependent on what criteria are utilized in making that type of determination. 

Now I'll gracefully exit this thread, never to return. Have fun folks.

You missed the point I was trying to make.  I'm not faulting anyone for preferring their LI in Mass Effect 1, I'm simply explaining why the Mass Effect 2 LI's are better developed and better paced. 

Romantic preference is entirely subjective, but literary pacing and development is objective.  I'm not saying my opinion is more correct than anyone, I'm saying that I can prove, without bias, that the ME2 romances are handled far better.  

[Nozybidaj]

LOL at anyone who thought Tali's romance had "pacing". Kelly tells you straight up Tali wants you before you ever even actually talk to her. So much for "build up".

[JeanLuc761]

Nozybidaj wrote...

LOL at anyone who thought Tali's romance had "pacing". Kelly tells you straight up Tali wants you before you ever even actually talk to her. So much for "build up".

*sighs* With respect, you're being flat-out ignorant.  You're completely tossing out all the experiences Shepard and Tali had in the first game and using that as the foundation of your arguement.  That's not the way to go about things.  Lemme quote what I said earlier:

Tali'Zorah:

Tali's romance was my personal favorite as it has the best pacing out
of any other romance (plus I like her). You already have all your
experiences in the first game going for you which serves as a
foundation for her feelings for you (and yours for her).  This is
further driven home on her recruit mission where several hints are
dropped (“I wish Shepard were here...”) that she cares for you. There's
another couple conversations you have with her before her loyalty
mission where you get to know her a bit better.  They're well paced and
neither party is jumping into things. During Tali's loyalty mission,
you build an incredible emotional connection with her and go through an
exceptional amount of personal turmoil.  If you choose to defend her,
this not only cements her loyalty to you, but your loyalty to her. I
like how this is handled because it's a relationship based upon
devotion to one another, for who that person is. The romance starts
after her loyalty mission, and it's nothing major. She express her
interest in you and you can do so in return. It's fun and flirtatious
without coming on too strongly.  The next convo brings you two
together, saying that Shepard is willing to wait for her, as long as it
takes. This isn't (just) about sex, this is about transcending the
physical barriers that hold them apart and it further drives home that
these two are devoted to each other. The next talk has Tali telling you
how much she appreciates your patience, and really shows how much she
wants to be with him. The climax of the relationship is handled very
well as Tali get's flustered but is quickly overcome with joy when her
mask is finally removed. Expertly paced and very believable in the
context of the storyline.

Also, for someone who likes Liara as much as you do, her romance suffers from probably the worst pacing in either of the two games.  Hate to say it, but it's true.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

I wish it was easier to know when someone was willing to talk instead of having to TOUR THE SHIP every time to see if any of my TEN squadmates are feeling like chatting it up. It was nice of kelly to let us know when they wanted to talk about their personal missions, but it'd be even nicer to be able to get a lower priority alternate message from her when someone just wanted to chat a little, or at least giving them more "I'm busy maybe later" dialogue bits like mordin's got (Best guy ever)

[jlb524]

xedgorex wrote...

Yeah who wishes you could actually complete the Samara romance

Meee!!!

Maybe in ME3?

On Topic:

The first ME2 romance I saw was Jack's and I thought that it was a little rushed/had bad pacing.  Then I saw the other two female romances....let's just say Jack's doesn't feel all that rushed anymore.

Modifié par jlb524, 08 mars 2010 - 05:13 .

[screwoffreg]

I haven't been a huge fan of the romances in ME in general. In other games, your romance would talk to you throughout the quest and would have interactions with other team members based on that. In other words, it was widely acknowledged and seem to actually play a part in the game (Baldurs Gate, Dragon Age). In ME, it is sort of just an optional thing that, while neat, so far hasn't proved itself important at all.

[kraidy1117]

Nozybidaj wrote...

LOL at anyone who thought Tali's romance had "pacing". Kelly tells you straight up Tali wants you before you ever even actually talk to her. So much for "build up".

Liara wants to screw you as soon as you get her on the ship so theres no diffrence.

[screwoffreg]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

LOL at anyone who thought Tali's romance had "pacing". Kelly tells you straight up Tali wants you before you ever even actually talk to her. So much for "build up".

Liara wants to screw you as soon as you get her on the ship so theres no diffrence.

Pretty much this.  Shepard has that animal attraction.  Tali would pounce on you in Engineering if she could, Liara wants to make out with you in ten minutes, and everyone else tries to come onto you pretty quickly.  Garrus and Jack seem to be the only hesitant ones you have to "chase" after.

[jlb524]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

LOL at anyone who thought Tali's romance had "pacing". Kelly tells you straight up Tali wants you before you ever even actually talk to her. So much for "build up".

Liara wants to screw you as soon as you get her on the ship so theres no diffrence.

That's not true.  Liara admits attraction early on, but she wants to put off having sex until after Saren/Sovereign's defeat.  She didn't keep to that plan though

[kraidy1117]

jlb524 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

LOL at anyone who thought Tali's romance had "pacing". Kelly tells you straight up Tali wants you before you ever even actually talk to her. So much for "build up".

Liara wants to screw you as soon as you get her on the ship so theres no diffrence.

That's not true.  Liara admits attraction early on, but she wants to put off having sex until after Saren/Sovereign's defeat.  She didn't keep to that plan though

Not the point, soon as you talk to her she wants you, thats not good pacing.

[screwoffreg]

jlb524 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

LOL at anyone who thought Tali's romance had "pacing". Kelly tells you straight up Tali wants you before you ever even actually talk to her. So much for "build up".

Liara wants to screw you as soon as you get her on the ship so theres no diffrence.

That's not true.  Liara admits attraction early on, but she wants to put off having sex until after Saren/Sovereign's defeat.  She didn't keep to that plan though

No one ever does with Shepard.  The Commander's Quarters is the G-spot, call Shepard Mr. Flintstone, cuz he'll make your bedrock!

Isn't it also true Liara doesn't immediately object to the idea of a threesome in ME1, it is Ashley who shuts that down?

Modifié par screwoffreg, 08 mars 2010 - 05:24 .