204 réponses à ce sujet

[glasgoo21]

Cascadus wrote...

Here's my opinion on the romances. I like the CHARACTERS being romanced FAR more than any of ME1's. Tali, Garrus, Thane and Jack have been far more endearing to me than Ashley, Liara or Kaidan ever was. It's only a shame they didn't give ME2's romances the same amount of depth as ME1's, despite having the more interesting characters.

Amen

[JeanLuc761]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Not the point, soon as you talk to her she wants you, thats not good pacing.

Exactly.  There isn't a single romance option in ME2 that has this problem; none of them even speak about a romance possibility until after you complete their loyalty mission.

Even Tali's romance, which a lot of people here keep saying is "rushed," is really not.  You were with her for nearly the entire first game and even then, she waits until after her loyalty mission to even suggest her feelings towards you. 

[Onyx Jaguar]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...Overall I found the ME1 romances to be far superior. Better paced and with better characters. As much I personally might dislike the ME2 romances, I think its clear that not that much seperates the two. Personally I think they were missing something along the lines of when the ME1 LI comes to comfort Shepard after s/he is grounded. I also felt the romance coversations in number and depth were inferior in ME2..

Don't make me quote my brick wall of text from earlier in this thread.  I hate to be on the offensive in threads like this but you are provably wrong if you think the romances in ME1 were better developed than they were in ME2. 

It took 2-3 conversations with your LI for them to start talking about a relationship, one last "confirmation," then you did the deed.  Liara was even quicker by bringing up a relationship literally the very instant you bring her onto the ship.  That's not good pacing, not by a mile.

ME2 has 2-3 conversations and the entirety of their loyalty mission before they even consider a relationship, and even then you have to have another 2-4 conversations with them before the romance reaches its climax.  Every single one is better paced than anything in ME1, and if I have to quote myself from earlier in this thread to prove it, I will.

I'm sorry, but everyone who thinks ME1 had better pacing is looking through rose-tinted nostalgia glasses.

I agree, going back to ME 1 it seems like everything, relationships included have messed up pacing. 

I make it a point to not talk to any of the LI's from now on in ME 1.  Sure ME 2 isn't perfect but damn ME 1 seems like a mess in comparison.

[jlb524]

screwoffreg wrote...


Isn't it also true Liara doesn't immediately object to the idea of a threesome in ME1, it is Ashley who shuts that down?

I don't know, I never played as a dudeShep.  I just think Liara remains silent and has no opinion on it either way.

[kraidy1117]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Not the point, soon as you talk to her she wants you, thats not good pacing.

Exactly.  There isn't a single romance option in ME2 that has this problem; none of them even speak about a romance possibility until after you complete their loyalty mission.

Even Tali's romance, which a lot of people here keep saying is "rushed," is really not.  You were with her for nearly the entire first game and even then, she waits until after her loyalty mission to even suggest her feelings towards you. 

Expect for Jacob, he has no goodp acing, but everyone else (even Garrus) has very good pacing.

[screwoffreg]

jlb524 wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...


Isn't it also true Liara doesn't immediately object to the idea of a threesome in ME1, it is Ashley who shuts that down?

I don't know, I never played as a dudeShep.  I just think Liara remains silent and has no opinion on it either way.

I have a feeling she'd probably go for it just to be with Shepard.  Aliens seem much more open minded than Bible Belt Ashley.

[Barquiel]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Not the point, soon as you talk to her she wants you, thats not good pacing.

ME2 romances are not better (except Miranda), even worse (Tali! Jacob!)

[kraidy1117]

Barquiel wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Not the point, soon as you talk to her she wants you, thats not good pacing.

ME2 romances are not better (except Miranda), even worse (Tali! Jacob!)

All of them (expect for Jacob) where better then all ME romances.

[jlb524]

screwoffreg wrote...


I have a feeling she'd probably go for it just to be with Shepard.  Aliens seem much more open minded than Bible Belt Ashley.

I would imagine asari have different cultural norms in regards to relationships and monogomy.  'Sex' to them is more of a mental connection than a physical one.  If Shepard is just having regular old human-sex with another guy/gal, I don't think Liara would mind as much as she would if Shepard was having the mind-meldy sex with another asari.  This is just a guess.

[kraidy1117]

imported_beer wrote...

Here is my 2 cents. The characters in ME2 endearing and interesting characters. Some of them were highly attractive. I think what was missing was a sense of escalation of romance.

In ME1, you had some sense of the romance progressing beyond your dialogue with them. The way they smiled, the way they would make comments that they were interested while traveling in the Citadel, there was a conflict, or even the famous almost kiss. Thus when they landed up in your cabin in Ilos, it didn't seem like a "what? already?" moment. ME1 perhaps was not as detailed in this escalation as some other Bioware RPGs but at least it was there to *some* extent.

In ME2 you don't get a sense of the romance progressing outside the dialogues you have with that specific NPC. Maybe other NPCs may comment, but given that ME2 was so cinematic, the visual or verbal depictions of the romances didn't seem to progress as much with the story given how amazingly realistic their expressions looked.

If you value romances as opposed to just dialogues that get you laid, then this does seem lacking.

Cleary you did not romance Miri.

[Barquiel]

kraidy1117 wrote...

All of them (expect for Jacob) where better then all ME romances.

Well, I disagree

But I think all Mass Effect romances (1/2) are too short and rather shallow (compared to Dragon Age, Kotor or BG2).

[JeanLuc761]

Barquiel wrote...
Well, I disagree

But I think all Mass Effect romances (1/2) are too short and rather shallow (compared to Dragon Age, Kotor or BG2).

Then you're looking at this from a very biased viewpoint and completely ignoring the literary aspect.  Again, I have no problem if people preferred the ME1 romances because they liked the characters more, but from a writer's viewpoint, it's undeniable that the writing and pacing is better in ME2 by a long shot.

[kraidy1117]

Barquiel wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

All of them (expect for Jacob) where better then all ME romances.

Well, I disagree

But I think all Mass Effect romances (1/2) are too short and rather shallow (compared to Dragon Age, Kotor or BG2).

You can't realy count KOTOR as there was only three, and male Revans only had one.......

[JeanLuc761]

imported_beer wrote...
Outside your conversations, in most cases, it is like the romance does not exist.

I will agree with you on that and it was something I missed.  Even if it was just the occasional quip while walking around the Citadel or something, it would have been nice if the relationship showed up here and there. 

[Barquiel]

kraidy1117 wrote...

You can't realy count KOTOR as there was only three, and male Revans only had one.......

I know...and Bastila's romance has more depth than any ME romance imo. I would always prefer one well developed romance option for maleShep and one for femShep, not 3-4 "shallow" romances/gender.

JeanLuc761
The pacing is more or less the same: 3 "romantic" dialogues (all LIs admit attraction early on) + love scene

[Ray Joel Oh]

I think the pacing was fine, just too short. Three interactions and then some fanservice animations after the game, sad trombone. I do love the concept of the loyalty missions, though. Tali, Garrus, Thane, and Jack all had really great, emotional stories. But I'm with the people saying the depth of the romance was better in the first game, even though the LI characters from the first game bored me. Dragon Age had what was, for me, the gold standard of romance subplots, though of course it benefited from being a freaking huge game. Still, if they develop the romances from the first and second games further in the next one, they could pull off some really great, complete stories with these characters. Of course that would mean they already have nine characters people want to see playable and romancable, but if they can give me them, and my buddies Mordin and Legion, I'll be happy. I don't need more playable characters taking disc space away from my already-beloved bros and hos.

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 08 mars 2010 - 06:01 .

[jlb524]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Then you're looking at this from a very biased viewpoint and completely ignoring the literary aspect.  Again, I have no problem if people preferred the ME1 romances because they liked the characters more, but from a writer's viewpoint, it's undeniable that the writing and pacing is better in ME2 by a long shot.

'By a long shot'??  I think everyone's biased here.  I don't know how anyone can say the pacing for the Tali ME2 romance was any better than the pacing of the ME1 Liara romance.  The Tali romance was a copy/paste from the Liara ME1 romance.

I'll admit, I felt the pacing for Jack's romance was good in ME2 (better than Liara's).  Tali's is comparable to Liara's.  Ashley's pacing is better than Tali's/Liara's.

[JeanLuc761]

Barquiel wrote...

JeanLuc761
The pacing is more or less the same: 3 "romantic" dialogues (all LIs admit attraction early on) + love scene

You're going to make me quote my wall of text aren't you?  The pacing is definitely not the same, not even close.  Liara admits her attraction immediately after you meet her.  The "pacing" is nonexistent.  Ashley is a little better but give her 1-2 conversations and she brings it up.  Both of them are absurdly fast.

In ME2, every single one waits until after the loyalty mission before they bring up the idea of a romance, and you've had at least 6-10 conversations with them (loyalty mission dialogue included) before the romance takes shape.  Tali has even more, since you were with her for the first game. 

jlb524 wrote...
'By a long shot'??  I think everyone's
biased here.  I don't know how anyone can say the pacing for the Tali
ME2 romance was any better than the pacing of the ME1 Liara romance. 
The Tali romance was a copy/paste from the Liara ME1 romance.

Forgive me for being blunt, but you're flat-out wrong.  Did Tali tell you she was attracted to you the second you met her?  Not even close.  You had to go through a game and a half before she even mentions that she's interested in you.

Modifié par JeanLuc761, 08 mars 2010 - 06:02 .

[jlb524]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Forgive me for being blunt, but you're flat-out wrong.  Did Tali tell you she was attracted to you the second you met her?  Not even close.  You had to go through a game and a half before she even mentions that she's interested in you.

I'm comparing the romances.  Tali had absolutely no ME1 romantic content.  If there was even hints of it in ME1, I'd agree with you.  Instead, they just threw it on in ME2.

[screwoffreg]

I think I read an interview where Tali was INTENDED to be an ME 1 romance, but developers thought no one would like an alien with chicken feet and three fingers. Turns out our evolutionary desire for "child bearing hips" actually transfers over to videogames as well, lmao.

[Barquiel]

jlb524 wrote...

I'm comparing the romances.  Tali had absolutely no ME1 romantic content.  If there was even hints of it in ME1, I'd agree with you.  Instead, they just threw it on in ME2.

this

ME1: Tali is basically just a walking Quarian encyclopedia.
ME2: Kellys first impression of Tali: she wants you

good pacing?

[JeanLuc761]

jlb524 wrote...
I'm comparing the romances.  Tali had absolutely no ME1 romantic content.  If there was even hints of it in ME1, I'd agree with you.  Instead, they just threw it on in ME2.

I'm looking at it differently.  My perspective is that any interaction you have with the character qualifies as "development."  You may not be discussing a romance, but you're learning about him/her as a person and it all goes towards building a foundation for a relationship; Mass Effect 1 barely had that. 
That's why the Garrus/Tali relationships are so powerful (in my eyes), because you've already spent an entire game and 40+ hours getting to know them.

Conversley, Liara's romantic interest was almost instantaneous.

Barquiel wrote...
ME1: Tali is basically just a walking Quarian encyclopedia.
ME2: Kellys first impression of Tali: she wants you
good pacing?

If you completely toss out all the experiences you had with her in ME1 and all you learned about her, then yes, ME2 Tali would suffer from bad pacing.  However, that completely goes against how the Tali/Shepard romance was written and what the "relationship" is based upon.

Modifié par JeanLuc761, 08 mars 2010 - 06:10 .