204 réponses à ce sujet

[CmdrFenix83]

jlb524 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

What hints are you talking about.  My impression was that Samara turned out to be a very strong friend of Shepard.  Like when she tells him that in the future if Shep is in need that he can call her and she will come.
I remember asking about a relationship to her and she seemed flattered abou the question, but she had put relationships behind her. 

If you don't romance another ME2 character, you can ask Samara for 'something more' than friendship.  She admits she also has feelings for you, but ultimitely turns you down.

"...another life, another time..."

[CmdrFenix83]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

What hints are you talking about.  My impression was that Samara turned out to be a very strong friend of Shepard.  Like when she tells him that in the future if Shep is in need that he can call her and she will come.
I remember asking about a relationship to her and she seemed flattered abou the question, but she had put relationships behind her. 

If you don't romance another ME2 character, you can ask Samara for 'something more' than friendship.  She admits she also has feelings for you, but ultimitely turns you down.

Oh ok, I rember asking her that, but don't remember her mentioning feelings for me.  Only that she was flattered and she had put the romance stuff behind her.

There's a much more direct moment.  She tells Shepard how much she likes his friendship, and Shepard can literally tell her that he wants more than that with her.

[bushes289]

I kind of get what you mean, I felt that there wasn't nearly enough dialogue with the chatacters, especially Tali and Garrus.

[Schneidend]

OP has a serious case of rose-tinted glasses regarding ME1 romances.The amount of nostalgia on these boards for a game that was released less than three years ago is astounding.

[JeanLuc761]

Darht Jayder wrote...

All romances in both ME's were fast paced and had the exact same set up and outcome......flirt a tiny bit....express feelings followed by more flirting between missions...hit the sack before the final mission. I personally didn't like this set up in ME1 or ME2. Romances should have started earlier and as they progressed they should have had a bigger impact on the crew and their interactions with Shepard and themselves.

I partially agree with you.  While all of them have flaws in the pacing (though some are less noticable), they don't all develop in the same way.  While they tend to follow a somewhat basic structure, each one is different than the other.  I can't be arsed to do this concisely so I'll quote something I said earlier to show what I mean.

Ashley Williams: 
The actual romantic interest starts almost immediately if you're nice to her (Bioware didn't animate those pouty lips and sly looks for nothing).  Literally, right after you rescue her from Eden Prime she shows she's attracted to you.  This continues on the citadel with her little quip that the Commander would never see her "putting on a tinfoil hat and miniskirt."  The next time she shows interest is when her sister calls.  I'll admit, this one was nice because we got to learn about her family and she grew into more of a character.  However, we also learn that she's more than a bit racist.  And really...what else do we really get to do with her?  After that, we learn a little bit more then we get right to knocking boots before the final mission.  Decently paced, but not great.

Liara T'Soni: 
Liara, same thing. Literally the first conversation you have with her on the Normandy leads into how amazing and compelling she finds you.  Hell, they begin discussing a relationship right away! Way. Too. Fast.  This continues into the next major conversation and this one discusses how Asari's have sex. Seriously, two conversations and we're discussing third base? Third conversation...well, here we go. Knockin boots time. It's way too damn fast.

Miranda Lawson:
Like most romances in ME2, the pacing for Miranda was quite good.  At first, she didn't trust you but gradually begins to accept your command. Her loyalty mission is the big turning point (naturally), but it does a rather nice job of making her feelings toward you seem more natural. This is the first sign that she cares. The next big conversation discusses how impressed she is with Shepard's ability and loyalty to the mission, and she talks about how he's a better human than her, even with her “perfect upgrades.” I especially like how this conversation ends with their little flirtatious “admiring.” Later, she confronts you with how wrong this feels, but they end up admitting to each other that they want to be together. It's a surprisingly touching scene (even with Shepard's “I just want to get you into bed!” line). There's one last confirmation of the relationship, then they do the deed. Overall, it was much better than I had anticipated and the pacing was really great; far better than any of the romances in ME1.

Tali'Zorah:
Tali's romance was my personal favorite as it has the best pacing out of any other romance (plus I like her). You already have all your experiences in the first game going for you which serves as a foundation for her feelings for you (and yours for her).  This is further driven home on her recruit mission where several hints are dropped (“I wish Shepard were here...”) that she cares for you. There's another couple conversations you have with her before her loyalty mission where you get to know her a bit better.  They're well paced and neither party is jumping into things. During Tali's loyalty mission, you build an incredible emotional connection with her and go through an exceptional amount of personal turmoil.  If you choose to defend her, this not only cements her loyalty to you, but your loyalty to her. I like how this is handled because it's a relationship based upon devotion to one another, for who that person is. The romance starts after her loyalty mission, and it's nothing major. She express her interest in you and you can do so in return. It's fun and flirtatious without coming on too strongly.  The next convo brings you two together, saying that Shepard is willing to wait for her, as long as it takes. This isn't (just) about sex, this is about transcending the physical barriers that hold them apart and it further drives home that these two are devoted to each other. The next talk has Tali telling you how much she appreciates your patience, and really shows how much she wants to be with him. The climax of the relationship is handled very well as Tali get's flustered but is quickly overcome with joy when her mask is finally removed. Expertly paced and very believable in thecontext of the storyline.

Jack:
Jack is paced very differently than any of the other romances.  Since she's so inexperienced with honest human contact, she automatically takes any pleasantness as a sign that all you're trying to do is get her into bed. She even says something along the lines of “People are only nice when they want something.” This gives great insight into her character and it develops further interest for the player. As things progress, she gradually lets down her defensiveness. This really shows when she discusses her last boyfriend, who “used her like the rest.” It adds a reason to care for her, and it shows she isn't as emotionally tough as she tries to pretend to be. The final romance scene with her is utterly fantastic, probably the most emotionally charged in the entire game.  Jack finally let's herself feel true emotion for the first time in a great while, even to the point of crying. She tells you that she really needs the comfort of another person, and the nice thing is that they don't have sex purely for the sake of having sex...it's a real connection between Shepard and Jack. Again, very well paced and very well written.

While the basic "get to know --> flirt --> hit the sack" system you mentioned exists, each one does something to make itself stand out.  ME2 makes a big deal of the loyalty mission and they do add much needed depth.

Modifié par JeanLuc761, 08 mars 2010 - 08:18 .

[CmdrFenix83]

Darht Jayder wrote...

Sure, I know there are differences and slightly different outcomes but they were mostly paced the same with the same structure which to me took away from the character development and made it very predictable and sterile.  The characters are interesting and I felt the Jack romance to be one of the best ones simply because she is a great character, but by sterile I mean there was no unexpected moments to me.  The romances need to make a bigger impact to the story rather than just between the two of you.

Impossible with 9 different LI's available in the game.  KotOR was the only one I've seen where it was actually relevant to the main story, and only with male Revan/Bastila.  There's a reason it's called a 'sub-plot' in the achievment from the first game.

Modifié par CmdrFenix83, 08 mars 2010 - 08:31 .

[CmdrFenix83]

Darht Jayder wrote...

Yes...but for a subplot it sure has taken a fairly central spot in these forums and in the game itself.  It should have more relevance especially given the time and investment you as the player put into it.

I can't disagree with you there that it's ridiculous in how much the forumites focus on it.  I still don't think we'll see another one woven into the story as well as Revan/Bastila was as long as there are several options.

[screwoffreg]

If any romance could possibly be the major one in ME it would probably be Liara. Maybe Miranda as a close second, considering how damn hard she is to get rid off in ME 2.

[Agamo45]

You must have played a different ME1, because in the one I played there were a few romantic dialogues and then Ashley/Liara jumps on you at the end. I don't see the difference.

[InvaderErl]

Agamo45 wrote...

You must have played a different ME1, because in the one I played there were a few romantic dialogues and then Ashley/Liara jumps on you at the end. I don't see the difference.

QFT.

Methinks some people are looking through rose-tinted glasses when they get all nostalgic over the first game.

[UsagiVindaloo]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Darht Jayder wrote...

Yes...but for a subplot it sure has taken a fairly central spot in these forums and in the game itself.  It should have more relevance especially given the time and investment you as the player put into it.

I can't disagree with you there that it's ridiculous in how much the forumites focus on it.  I still don't think we'll see another one woven into the story as well as Revan/Bastila was as long as there are several options.

I've been thinking on this, and part of the reason I think we focus on romances so much is that it's one of the major "differences" you can play with in every playthrough. I mean, I'm trying to think of many plot decisions you can make that are different, and really it just seems to come down to two things:

- the suicide mission, and who ends up dying (which, if you're trying to "min/max", you'll probably end up wanting to save them all anyway)
- whether to blow up the base or keep it.

Other than that, I can't think of any major plot points that can go differently with each playthrough (maaaybe a few of the loyalty missions and the Jack/Miranda and Tali/Legion scenes, but again that just comes down to loyalty and who ends up dying)

The romances, at least, add a large amount of mixing and matching and differentiation between different playthroughs. I mean, I'm going to try at least five (Male/Tali, Male/Liara, Female/Kaiden, Female/Garrus, Female/Thane). 

[Onyx Jaguar]

InvaderErl wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

You must have played a different ME1, because in the one I played there were a few romantic dialogues and then Ashley/Liara jumps on you at the end. I don't see the difference.

QFT.

Methinks some people are looking through rose-tinted glasses when they get all nostalgic over the first game.

They also say there is more character development and dialogue in the elevators when there is only a few lines on ship, a couple per mission and a couple stock interactions on the elevators.  So yeah, going back and playing ME 1 is quite the revelation. 

If this was a DA v ME 2 debate I would be more inclined to agree, but I do not at all agree with the ME 1 > ME 2

[UsagiVindaloo]

I will say that, although I dearly loved the Tali romance, I was a bit surprised how quickly it went from, "Let's start a relationship," to "Let's have sex." Perhaps I'm a bit old fashioned, but it seemed very sudden, with no establishing period, no feeling out the new relationship, etc. I know you knew Tali beforehand, but it was jarring to have sex so immediately injected into discussion of a relationship. How about, you know, just dating for a while, Tali? :-)

[screwoffreg]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

I will say that, although I dearly loved the Tali romance, I was a bit surprised how quickly it went from, "Let's start a relationship," to "Let's have sex." Perhaps I'm a bit old fashioned, but it seemed very sudden, with no establishing period, no feeling out the new relationship, etc. I know you knew Tali beforehand, but it was jarring to have sex so immediately injected into discussion of a relationship. How about, you know, just dating for a while, Tali? :-)

Well, considering it is a suicide mission, there is not much time for candles and wine.  Also Tali is a virgin and probably has ridiculous Quarian hormones pumping through her body.  Everyone wants a bit of Shepard!

[Tooneyman]

OK, I will say this to everyone and I mean everyone. ME 1 took 4 years to make. ME 2 took 2 years to make. This is why you didn't get what you fully wanted. Remember the longer you give people to make a game the more they will give you. Yes this is true. Unless your 3D realms!

[InvaderErl]

Tooneyman wrote...

OK, I will say this to everyone and I mean everyone. ME 1 took 4 years to make. ME 2 took 2 years to make. This is why you didn't get what you fully wanted. Remember the longer you give people to make a game the more they will give you. Yes this is true. Unless your 3D realms!

Mass Effect 2 has more (original) content than 1 so this doesn't really hold true.

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
 So yeah, going back and playing ME 1 is
quite the revelation. 

Agreed, some people need to seriously play the first game again.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 08 mars 2010 - 09:09 .

[UsagiVindaloo]

screwoffreg wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

I will say that, although I dearly loved the Tali romance, I was a bit surprised how quickly it went from, "Let's start a relationship," to "Let's have sex." Perhaps I'm a bit old fashioned, but it seemed very sudden, with no establishing period, no feeling out the new relationship, etc. I know you knew Tali beforehand, but it was jarring to have sex so immediately injected into discussion of a relationship. How about, you know, just dating for a while, Tali? :-)

Well, considering it is a suicide mission, there is not much time for candles and wine.  Also Tali is a virgin and probably has ridiculous Quarian hormones pumping through her body.  Everyone wants a bit of Shepard!

This is true. I suppose part of the reason it felt jarring with Tali but not with other potential LIs is the, ah, preparation involved. As a result, the other relationships can progress at a more organic, "spur of the moment" pace. It doesn't feel weird for Miranda to have one last huzzah in the engine room, or Jack to come to you in a moment of vulnerability, or Jacob to sneak into the captain's cab... ok, that was a little weird, but the priiiize... None of them really have to talk about sex ahead of time (Jack discusses sex a lot but in a more general way that makes sense with her character), so it all feels reasonably natural.

Tali, unfortunately, can't be spontaneous and natural due to the issues with her suit and infection. Bioware decided to play into that by showing some of her concerns, having her need to do some research etc. Unfortunately, as a result, the pacing felt very borked:

SHEPARD: You're not selfish, Tali. I have the same feelings for you. I want to be with you.
TALI: Oh! Wow! Alright, let me see how to strip off my suit and sex you rotten.
SHEPARD: Wait, aren't we going to have the sweet and slow, "Wow, we share feelings! We're a couple now!" thing?
TALI: YOUR SKIN AGAINST MINE, SHEPARD. NAO.


I think I would have preferred it if they'd had Tali not be so sex-crazed earlier on, but had her show up in your cabin announcing extremely nervously that she'd taken the supplements and that, since they were about to fly off to the suicide mission, she wanted to be with Shepard. A bit of dialog about the dangers, precautions, whatever, and then go at it. Or just keep Mordin's guide to safe sex. ;-)

For what it's worth, from what I've seen, the Garrus romance actually does all this right. Yes, they start talking about sex very early, but it makes sense from the context ("reach and flexibility") and while there's discussion about research, it still felt a bit more natural than Tali going on about "skin".

My two cents, of course.

[screwoffreg]

In ME 3, you get to hold hands with your LI and walk through the park.