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[FenixPendragon]

FenixPendragon wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Raptr569 wrote...

It is poorly paced compared to ME1 but it kind of makes sense that they drop there knickers/briefs for what could be there only chance for a bit of Shepard (or anyone else) ever.

*grins* Another player who's wearing rose-tinted glasses.  Go play ME1 again then try to tell me it has better pacing (at least so far as romances go).

Also, since a lot of people seem to be talking about it; Tali's...shall we say "anticipation" for sex (assuming they did do more than make out; pretty likely) is not entirely unwarranted nor would I say it's unrealistic.  Some people think that she moves rather fast (and so did I until I thought about it), but think of it this way:

Tali is a 24 year old quarian who not only has never been with another male, but lives almost her entire life in an enviro-suit.  Think about what actual physical contact must mean for her.  She doesn't want to have sex with Shepard simply because they can, she wants to be physical with him because it's an assurance the relationship can survive.  Being able to touch someone else's skin without the barrier of the suit would mean everything in the world to her. 

That's why I think she acted the way she did at least.

I agree that the beginning of the Liara romance in ME1 was... um... rather fast.  "Hello Commander, thank you for rescuing me. I HAVE A CONNECTION WITH YOU, LOL." I don't particularly remember what I saw of the Kaiden romance being particularly rushed, though... and it had Kaiden being quite hesitant at times, feeling the whole thing out (mind you, I gather that's why some dislike him!)

You do make some very good points about Tali, though, especially about physical contact period. I think my problem is that I do keep imagining it a bit like... I dunno, if my male friend said he liked me, I said I liked him too, and the first words out of his mouth were, "Let me go to the store to get a condom!" That would feel really offputting in real life and thus felt really weird in the game too. Admittedly the whole "suicide mission" thing does sort of mix things up a bit.

For Liara she eyeballs you the moment you tell the Krogan to go climb a tree when you rescue her (provided you rescue her early). This is part of the whole Asari Maiden stage thing (new experiences) so I never liked that romance fully (Ash might be good if I ever get in a bar fight).

As for Tali...I just ran through ME1 again and there are definitely some subtle hints that she is interested in you even then. For one when on Vermire she states that the upcoming battle frightens her (the only character to express genuine fear) but she also states that she is confident in you.

In addition if and when you give her the geth data disk (after the battles in the Armstrong cluster)  one of conversation options strong hints that her pilgrimage is over at that point but she wants too see you through to the end.
 
He Father’s e-mail to you suggests that her is concerned that she does have feeling for Shepherd (duly noted Admiral Zorah and thanks for not calling me a jerk).

In ME2 She actively tries to discourage the relationship because she fears that it might affect your abilities and distract you from the mission. This is not the sign of someone interested in a short term relationship. She then repeats asking you this if you go back and talks to her again before the final mission. The real disappointment is she repeats this after the final mission and after your interlude.
 
I do admit that Shepherd is learning a great deal about Quarians but she has not once asked me about Earth - Tell me of your homeworld Shepherd – Pity, this is where I think the depth is lacking.
 
The writers must have had Kahlil Gibran on the brain: “If you love somebody, let them go, for if they return, they were always yours. And if they don't, they never were.”
 
Plus it is precious to watch her shoot a geth in the face with the M22 and watch it fly across the room…my kind of lady.
 
In the end they WANT you to buy ME3.
 
(what has evoked this kind of loyalty? Remember she says in Udina's office that "she can handle herself").

[DarthCaine]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...
I don't know about the pace, but ME1's romances were the worst romances in any BioWare game (and all the LIs were boring as hell)

My "romance ranking"
BG2>KOTOR>Dragon Age>ME1/Jade Empire>ME2>NWN

NWN had a romance?

Player/Aribeth.  I enjoyed it personally.  It let me turn her back.

I never saw that as a romance. Anyway in the canon story she dies

[SirOccam]

I just finished ME2, and to be honest, I didn't think the romances in either game were paced very well. Maybe I missed something (I did sort of rush through ME1 a little bit because I knew I had ME2 waiting and I loved the gameplay in ME2 way more), but it felt like you could only talk to people like once after each "core" mission, and that's it. Every other time, it was the same old bland questions or "not now, I'm busy."



In ME1, I romanced Ashley. I didn't really have any definite inclinations one way or the other, but when she threw all that stuff about regs in my face the first time, I took that as a challenge. Unfortunately, and this was a huge letdown, she never mentions her precious "regs" ever again. After that conversation, next thing I know she's pitching a fit because I talked to Liara and she's all jealous. WTF, where are your regs now? And what's worse, on Vermire I sacrificed Kaidan, and thought I was going to get berated by Ashley ("I told you so," "you let your personal desires affect the mission," etc.), but nope. She's just a little bummed that he's dead. "Uh, hello? I just did exactly what you warned me about."



Anyway...despite that I chose to stay faithful through ME2 (another thing I took as a challenge), so I can't really comment on ME2 romances, except that from what I did experience, "good" conversations are still limited to once per core mission. All I can say is, she better be back in ME3, and it better be damn good.



Dragon Age, on the other hand, was AMAZING in its relationship aspects. You could have all sorts of deep conversations with each companion, and it felt like they were all a part of the story. You could build a romance, consummate it, and then live with the after-effects. You could then break it off and start another one with someone else, if you were so inclined. And best of all, you didn't have to take The World's Slowest Elevator between each companion.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Anyone jumping to conclusions about character interaction in ME 2 really, REALLY needs to go back and play ME 1 right afterwards. I cannot stress this enough!

[CmdrFenix83]

DarthCaine wrote...

I never saw that as a romance. Anyway in the canon story she dies

"Canon" is irrelevant in the game.  In the "Canon"  Shepard is a renegade soldier douchebag.  In the "Canon" Revan was male and had a kid with Bastila, whose decendant is in TOR.  Canon doesn't mean much in a world where you shape and mold the characters/story.

[JeanLuc761]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
Anyone jumping to conclusions about character interaction in ME 2 really, REALLY needs to go back and play ME 1 right afterwards. I cannot stress this enough!

You may want to elaborate this because I'm a little confused as to what you're saying (or what point you're trying to prove). 

Personally, I played through the first game twice in the week and a half before ME2's release.  ME2 wins by a friggin mile when it comes to character interaction.

Modifié par JeanLuc761, 09 mars 2010 - 12:25 .

[Jonathan Shepard]

Cascadus wrote...

Here's my opinion on the romances. I like the CHARACTERS being romanced FAR more than any of ME1's. Tali, Garrus, Thane and Jack have been far more endearing to me than Ashley, Liara or Kaidan ever was. It's only a shame they didn't give ME2's romances the same amount of depth as ME1's, despite having the more interesting characters.

Precisely.

[JeanLuc761]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

Cascadus wrote...

Here's my opinion on the romances. I like the CHARACTERS being romanced FAR more than any of ME1's. Tali, Garrus, Thane and Jack have been far more endearing to me than Ashley, Liara or Kaidan ever was. It's only a shame they didn't give ME2's romances the same amount of depth as ME1's, despite having the more interesting characters.

Precisely.

I have to ask; what was it about the ME1 romances that felt deeper than ME2?  For the life of me, I can't see it.

[XxXgunziXxX]

u do know that garrus romance dosent end in a sex scene b/e of his "fluids" are toxic to sheperds insides and jacks dosent ever since she sofented upa bit and just needs comferting

[InvaderErl]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

Cascadus wrote...

Here's my opinion on the romances. I like the CHARACTERS being romanced FAR more than any of ME1's. Tali, Garrus, Thane and Jack have been far more endearing to me than Ashley, Liara or Kaidan ever was. It's only a shame they didn't give ME2's romances the same amount of depth as ME1's, despite having the more interesting characters.

Precisely.

I have to ask; what was it about the ME1 romances that felt deeper than ME2?  For the life of me, I can't see it.

[LebatomiBeni]

XxXgunziXxX wrote...

u do know that garrus romance dosent end in a sex scene b/e of his "fluids" are toxic to sheperds insides

Space condom.

[XxXgunziXxX]

lul i would love to see how mordinwould tell u that...

[MyChemicalBromance]

You've sort of known Tali for two years though...

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Y'know what I'd love would be, since there's so many LI's in this game, if some of the ones you DIDN'T PICK hooked up. It'd be amusing if Garrus and Tali hooked up if you picked Miranda or something like that.

[InvaderErl]

I really wish Jacob and Miranda could get back together. Its like obvious they still have feelings. I kind of had the same feelings about Kaiden and Liara in the first one.

I guess it would be totally impractical waste of resources but ah well.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 09 mars 2010 - 05:32 .

[Raptr569]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Raptr569 wrote...

It is poorly paced compared to ME1 but it kind of makes sense that they drop there knickers/briefs for what could be there only chance for a bit of Shepard (or anyone else) ever.

*grins* Another player who's wearing rose-tinted glasses.  Go play ME1 again then try to tell me it has better pacing (at least so far as romances go).

Also, since a lot of people seem to be talking about it; Tali's...shall we say "anticipation" for sex (assuming they did do more than make out; pretty likely) is not entirely unwarranted nor would I say it's unrealistic.  Some people think that she moves rather fast (and so did I until I thought about it), but think of it this way:

Tali is a 24 year old quarian who not only has never been with another male, but lives almost her entire life in an enviro-suit.  Think about what actual physical contact must mean for her.  She doesn't want to have sex with Shepard simply because they can, she wants to be physical with him because it's an assurance the relationship can survive.  Being able to touch someone else's skin without the barrier of the suit would mean everything in the world to her. 

That's why I think she acted the way she did at least.

Well you also have to bear in mind that Tali and Shepard have known eachother since ME1 so there friendship has been longer running than say Thane. So they already have a strong friendship built on what happened in the first game. The same goes for Garrus.

However the newer charactors it may seem a little rushed but to be honest I got back to what I previously said as far as they must have been concerned it could be there one and only chance to be with someone and they choose Shepard.

As for you suggestions on my apparent choice of facial wear all I have to say is read my other posts I am as critical as anyone of this game. However this is my opinion and I stand by it and you should try and be a little more open minded about other peoples opinions.

[Relshar]

I did the romance with Garrus and after DA:O and ME1 feel cheated. What a anti climax to it all. I mean we go round the game blowing people up and shooting them in the face and thats ok ? Yet when we get to have some quiet time with a romance intrest in the game its been watered down because of the news backlash from the last games.

[JeanLuc761]

Raptr569 wrote...
As for you suggestions on my apparent choice of facial wear all I have to say is read my other posts I am as critical as anyone of this game. However this is my opinion and I stand by it and you should try and be a little more open minded about other peoples opinions.

I didn't mean to come across as disrespectful; you are certainly entitled to your opinion. 

The reason I feel the way I do is fairly simple.  I do a LOT of writing, reading, movie watching etc so I've found what kind of pacing feels realistic and what feels rushed.  Because of this, I look at the pacing of the romantic subplots from a completely objective point of view;  Liara's and Ashley/Kaiden's are extremely rushed in comparison to what Mass Effect 2 offered.

Again, meant no offense but I figured I should clarify my position.

[Raptr569]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Raptr569 wrote...
As for you suggestions on my apparent choice of facial wear all I have to say is read my other posts I am as critical as anyone of this game. However this is my opinion and I stand by it and you should try and be a little more open minded about other peoples opinions.

I didn't mean to come across as disrespectful; you are certainly entitled to your opinion. 

The reason I feel the way I do is fairly simple.  I do a LOT of writing, reading, movie watching etc so I've found what kind of pacing feels realistic and what feels rushed.  Because of this, I look at the pacing of the romantic subplots from a completely objective point of view;  Liara's and Ashley/Kaiden's are extremely rushed in comparison to what Mass Effect 2 offered.

Again, meant no offense but I figured I should clarify my position.

I bet the reason for the relationships building up this way was probably all down to disc space; I don't think Bioware would cut these kind of emotionally engaging moment out without a good reason. I also don't think that relationships were as important in this game.

Shepard wasn't asking for the favour Liarra who is young and has a bright future in archeology; he is after people who had nothing else to loose like Thane who is going to die or Jack that is so unstable it is unlikely that she fear death or care about it happening to her.

[Big Yam]

Romances are poorly paced because the main story is so short. If there were a few more collector missions after you get Legion, there would be more opportunities to flesh out the romances.

[R34P3RR3D33M3R]

Big Yam wrote...

Romances are poorly paced because the main story is so short. If there were a few more collector missions after you get Legion, there would be more opportunities to flesh out the romances.

"Flesh" them out, eh? You're just after the cutscenes, perv.

[Commander_David]

Mirandas one imo is the more sexual relationship.



Tali's is the best for male shep bar none.



tho my main trilogy file will continue the Liara romance.

[Fjordgnu]

Are we talking about the same romances? Because Tali's was likely the most convincing and compelling ones I've seen in a game.



One thing that does strike me as a definite improvement over ME1 is that there exist romance subplots that lead nowhere, and they all end in different scenes, not versions of the same scene with different characters.



Come to think of it, that's really obvious.