27 réponses à ce sujet

[crawfs]

Need help defeating it I have a level 13 DW rogues and every character in game cept ogren please help

[soteria]

Watch.

[errant_knight]

I killed it once and never again. Reloaded straight away. It just felt...bad.

[krylo]

You know, while we're on the subject, everyone says "Warmth Balms" and "75% fire resist on the tank"

Why?

Fire spit doesn't do much damage, even with 0 fire resist, is never/very rarely used in melee range (and that's where your tank should be), and fire breath, the actual nasty fire weapon, is a) telegraphed, a cone in front of the dragon with limited range, and c) never hits anyone in melee range as that it comes from the dragon's mouth, and even if your melee is in front of the dragon, you're standing under the neck when it breaths fire, not in front of the mouth--meaning that you should never actually be hit by it.

I've never noticed a difference in difficulty, honestly, based on my fire resist gear. Is there something I'm missing here, or is it just a 'just in case' type of thing? Or just a much more voluntary step than most make it seem to keep a tank from getting knocked away and fire spitted to death while knocked down after a heavily damaging sweep?

Modifié par krylo, 08 mars 2010 - 07:41 .

[mosspit]

krylo wrote...

You know, while we're on the subject, everyone says "Warmth Balms" and "75% fire resist on the tank"

Why?

Fire spit doesn't do much damage, even with 0 fire resist, is never/very rarely used in melee range (and that's where your tank should be), and fire breath, the actual nasty fire weapon, is a) telegraphed, a cone in front of the dragon with limited range, and c) never hits anyone in melee range as that it comes from the dragon's mouth, and even if your melee is in front of the dragon, you're standing under the neck when it breaths fire, not in front of the mouth--meaning that you should never actually be hit by it.

I've never noticed a difference in difficulty, honestly, based on my fire resist gear. Is there something I'm missing here, or is it just a 'just in case' type of thing? Or just a much more voluntary step than most make it seem to keep a tank from getting knocked away and fire spitted to death while knocked down after a heavily damaging sweep?

Provided you constantly micro your tank, he will consistently be hit by a massive attacks/sweeps which will most likely be followed up by a fire spit due to the knockback range. The accumulation of fire dmg + DOT is pretty significant for me. The knockback is very difficult to resist. I agree that dragon breath is a joke since you can see it a mile away.

[soteria]

75% fire resist on the tank because it's safer to NOT be in melee range. Fire spit does less damage than anything the dragon will do in melee. I wouldn't rush back in after getting knocked back, and on Flemeth, the best thing to do is never to enter melee.

[Axekix]

soteria wrote...

75% fire resist on the tank because it's safer to NOT be in melee range. Fire spit does less damage than anything the dragon will do in melee. I wouldn't rush back in after getting knocked back, and on Flemeth, the best thing to do is never to enter melee.

But that's no fun!

Hopefully the Dragons in DAA will have better AI 

[mosspit]

soteria wrote...

75% fire resist on the tank because it's safer to NOT be in melee range. Fire spit does less damage than anything the dragon will do in melee. I wouldn't rush back in after getting knocked back, and on Flemeth, the best thing to do is never to enter melee.

Actually, there is a way to kill Flemeth reliably in melee range. I can even say it is even safer than being in ranged distance. It has to do with baiting Flemeth to do certain atks. I actually melee solo'ed her with my 2Her with no potions. It might be an exploit depending on how you look at it.

[krylo]

filaminstrel wrote...

Well, fire does more damage than it may seem given the damage over time from being on fire.

It's still not much damage, though, and if you have a melee tank with indomitable or full shield mastery/wall you'll never get hit by fire damage.

And even if fire damage still doesn't account for much of the total damage dealt, it's not like there's a penalty for using warmth balms, and they last a long time, so I see no reason not to use them.

Yeah, I've been wondering if it was just a "Well it's safer and doens't cost you anything, so why not?

soteria wrote...

75% fire resist on the tank because it's safer to NOT be in melee range.

The video linked and most strats tell you to use Shale as a tank because Shale can't be grabbed, while simultaneously telling you to put on fire crystals/warmth balms for fire resist.  Shale in stoneheart is going to be in melee range--as will any other tank that is at risk of being grabbed.

So they aren't saying "Use Fire Resist and stay at range to mitigate all damage" usually, from what I've seen. They're saying "Use Fire Resist and then melee" which makes me wonder "Well, why?"

Also--meleeing is cooler/funner.   And much more iconic.

Safety is lame.

Fire spit does less damage than anything the dragon will do in melee.

Kind of my point.  The fire damage is pretty negligible if you've got a melee tank.

I wouldn't rush back in after getting knocked back, and on Flemeth, the best thing to do is never to enter melee.

But it's not hard even in melee.  Staying back and plucking away is certainly safer, but it's just... boring.  Terribly terribly boring.

Plus if you spend the whole fight just nibbling away with ranged attacks you don't get to watch the head stabbing goodness of the critical kill.

Modifié par krylo, 08 mars 2010 - 08:14 .

[soteria]

The video linked and most strats tell you to use Shale as a tank because Shale can't be grabbed, while simultaneously telling you to put on fire crystals/warmth balms for fire resist. Shale in stoneheart is going to be in melee range--as will any other tank that is at risk of being grabbed.



So they aren't saying "Use Fire Resist and stay at range to mitigate all damage" usually, from what I've seen. They're saying "Use Fire Resist and then melee" which makes me wonder "Well, why?"

As flaminminstrel said, because even if you mostly stay in melee you're still going to take fire damage sometimes. It just makes sense to mitigate all the damage you can. In the video, even though I'm trying to keep Shale in melee, I get hit with 7 or 8 fire spits just in the short segment I show. I say "Use Fire Resist and then melee" because I feel lame taking advantage of the bad AI.

But that's no fun!



Hopefully the Dragons in DAA will have better AI

Yeah.

[soteria]

Actually, there is a way to kill Flemeth reliably in melee range. I can even say it is even safer than being in ranged distance. It has to do with baiting Flemeth to do certain atks. I actually melee solo'ed her with my 2Her with no potions. It might be an exploit depending on how you look at it.

I'm intrigued... do tell?

[krylo]

soteria wrote...
As flaminminstrel said, because even if you mostly stay in melee you're still going to take fire damage sometimes. It just makes sense to mitigate all the damage you can. In the video, even though I'm trying to keep Shale in melee, I get hit with 7 or 8 fire spits just in the short segment I show. I say "Use Fire Resist and then melee" because I feel lame taking advantage of the bad AI.

Yeah, usually I don't get hit by many/any at all, but I also use a warrior tank with knockback immunity and just have a mage with forefield/CoC/Winter's Grasp on hand to cancel grabs before they can kill anyone.  I don't like Shale that much (in combat, as a character she's great and I love her), and the grab immunity feels too much like cheating to me, considering Shale's not a part of the core game.

But yeah, I get it as a "Mitigate all damage you can" thing, it's just most strats I've seen make it seem like 75% fire resist is necessary, where in my experience it's completely voluntary to even have 5%, if you're careful/micromanage enough.

...I also tend to micromanage my entire team most of the time, though.  I don't like setting up tactics.


Edit: On Flemeth and High Dragon safe melee--stand under them, and attack with your tank, so you're almost directly under but count as behind.  When she turns around, take two steps so you're behind her again.  Repeat forever.

Another strat I don't use 'cause it feels like cheating.

Modifié par krylo, 08 mars 2010 - 08:28 .

[soteria]

I don't feel cheap using Shale because despite the grab/overwhelm immunity, she can get flanked and knocked down easily enough. I've only used her as a tank in one game, though. For some reason I've always felt like she was just... slow. Slow to get back up, slow to get into the fight, etc.

[krylo]

soteria wrote...

I don't feel cheap using Shale because despite the grab/overwhelm immunity, she can get flanked and knocked down easily enough. I've only used her as a tank in one game, though. For some reason I've always felt like she was just... slow. Slow to get back up, slow to get into the fight, etc.

I have the same problem with her.

I'm not sure if she actually IS slower, or if the animations/her size just make it SEEM that way.  It's pretty much the only reason I don't like her in combat.

[mosspit]

Dragons have 2 targeting groups - Front and Rear. Flemeth generally will only target (i) a stationary target or (ii) the char who is hitting her. A melee can constantly kite between the horizontal levels of front and rear paws to reliably avoid triggering any attacks.

To dmg, I bait her into executing sweep by positioning just behind her front paws. When she sweeps, I execute sunders at her rear. I always use 2H sweeps as they do not target and do not trigger counters.
Halfway, the fight gets easier (depending on warrior type). Buffet is a free 2 hits and Roar is a free single hit.

[soteria]

Interesting, thanks.

[lqutois]

my question has always been what is a high dragon doing guarding the ashes of the lady who took the dragons away as gods and what are the last of the scrolls of banestor doing in her temple...

[mosspit]

lqutois wrote...

my question has always been what is a high dragon doing guarding the ashes of the lady who took the dragons away as gods and what are the last of the scrolls of banestor doing in her temple...

Hmm actually the dragon isn't "guarding" the urn.... She (and the cult) wants it for herself but is detered by the Guardian. (Spoilers ARE allowed right??)

[crawfs]

yeah spoilers allowed I've been using shale alisatair (tank) meas rogue DW and morrigan can only get it down to about half hea/lth and with flemeth, it only took me one shoot i had me and alistair as tanks the dog full upgraded and wynne. Me and alistair for some reason immediately died. dofg and wynne only won left, Flemeth couldn't do much dame against dog and wynne constantly healed so yeah i found Flemth very easy

[crawfs]

killed (fluke) i was on mountain top blew the horn (i killed the guy) umm was in that circular ruined building me and Alistair died quickly :\\ umm then dfragon couldn''t attack all it could do was roar so i slowly but surely took it down

[crawfs]

But can someone tell me what iIm spose'd to do now

[mosspit]

Give the dragon scale to Wades in denerim and trade it for dragon(insert type) armour. Make sure you give 10gold for the first set of drake scales and submit the second set without paying... and then the dragon scale.

[crawfs]

I mean where can i find the urn of sacred ashes i'm kinda lost