48 réponses à ce sujet

[ccconda]

[Insanity]

Any vids or info about assault armor Sentinels  being as effective as charge Vanguards:devil:? 

Edit: Some questions:
-Does assault armor's cooldown time make them more squishy than a vanguard with a quicker cooldown on Charge?

-Can a sentinelkill an enemy with as many shotgun shots as a vanguard can?

-Can a sentinel utilize their OTHER skills alongside assault armor? Can a vanguard, in your experience. Basically, who is a better swiss army knife?

-Does sentinel have to choose AP armor to come close to Vanguard's shotgun damage (since shottys are weak against armor)?

Modifié par ccconda, 09 mars 2010 - 09:24 .

[kefka004]

http://www.youtube.c...I&v=ngtPFb9jqzA



This is not me playing. Average Gatsby has contributed a lot to the ME2 community. He's got a great adept guide for Insanity difficulty and is currently doing an engineer video guide for Insanity. I highly recommend checking out both of them.

[Darnalak]

Eh, I'll have some more sentinel videos soon (attached to the signature post), but I have to get through dragon age one more time before the expansion comes out. Look for some footage next week. In addition, Rumination has a Husk mashing video in the OP.

[ccconda]

Not sure if an AA sentinel can so what a charge vanguard can

[SmilingMirror]

kefka004 wrote...

http://www.youtube.c...I&v=ngtPFb9jqzA

This is not me playing. Average Gatsby has contributed a lot to the ME2 community. He's got a great adept guide for Insanity difficulty and is currently doing an engineer video guide for Insanity. I highly recommend checking out both of them.

That video has a purist build.

I think the best place to show how powerful an assault sentinel is towards the end of Legion's loyalty mission. Get close to the Geth Prime and let the other enemies fire apon you. You'll come out the winner in seconds.

Not sure if an AA sentinel can so what a charge vanguard can

Sentinels can't take on a Geth Colossus like a Vanguard can, but that's because it can't hit them. I think on something like a Geth Prime, Sentinel might kill quicker....maybe. The extra shields and blast from tech armor does quite a bit of damage.

Vanguard is still probably the shotty king, but Sentinels are pretty much jack of all trade champs. I think it depends on what your trying to accomplish.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 09 mars 2010 - 09:05 .

[ccconda]

I'd really be interested in a debate about this. I'm sure some of the video-contributing players, and others, could find some pros and cons for each class.



- Does assault armor's cooldown time make them more squishy than a vanguard with a quicker cooldown on Charge?



-Can a sentinelkill an enemy with as many shotgun shots as a vanguard can?



-Can a sentinel utilize their OTHER skills alongside assault armor? Can a vanguard, in your experience. Basically, who is a better swiss army knife?



-Does sentinel have to choose AP armor to come close to Vanguard's shotgun damage (since shottys are weak against armor)?

[Darnalak]

There's really no comparison if you're trying to match damage to damage, the vanguard will tear a hole in a Sentinel. However, due to the debilitating powers sentinels have at thier disposal (not to mention the colossal armor) they're just as effective up close. (IE: everything dies in a timely fashion, and both parties are still standing at the end). (as an aside, the Eviscerator and claymore aren't weak to armor, they're 1.25x against all)

[SmilingMirror]

Heres what I think, and keep in mind that I'm talking about Insanity:

ccconda wrote...

- Does assault armor's cooldown time make them more squishy than a vanguard with a quicker cooldown on Charge?

No, Sentinels can take more damage at once but after the second armor goes even their hefty 30% guardian cooldown reduction won't help that much.

-Can a sentinelkill an enemy with as many shotgun shots as a vanguard can?

No, Vanguards do more damage in single shots. I think most Sentinels will use the Scimitar and most Vanguards use the Claymore for straight up speed killing. Even if they both use eviscerators, the Vanguard has a very small edge in weapon damage.

-Can a sentinel utilize their OTHER skills alongside assault armor? Can a vanguard, in your experience. Basically, who is a better swiss army knife?

I think the vanguard is the better swiss army knife, but its only because they can travel instantly to their targets. A sentinel has to run. When your fully upgraded as a Sentinel I have noticed you have enough time from the first stun that you can use warp inbetween your first and second tech armor use without wasting much time. There isn't that much difference in damage truth be told. Tech Armor really evens things out.

-Does sentinel have to choose AP armor to come close to Vanguard's shotgun damage (since shottys are weak against armor)?

Vanguards are stronger weapon wise, but Sentinels have the better stun. Both kill fast enough that they won't take much damage (if at all), even if Sentinel might kill a fraction of a second slower. This takes alot of time, and the Vanguard has advantage of skipping entire packs of enemies.



Ideally, if you wanted a Sentinel to outshine a Vanguard, you have to wait behind cover until a group of enemies are close to you and hope that the enemies are close enough to each other that you can do some damage.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 09 mars 2010 - 09:47 .

[Average Gatsby]

I think its kind of a false comparison. The vanguard is much more akin to like a Rouge from an RPG than a tank like it was in the first game. The Sentinel is more of tank/self-aoe mage. I know these are horrible terms though. Sentinels can beast, but its in such a different way than the vanguard that I don't know if you can really compare them. A far better comparison is the Sentinel vs the Soldier. The vanguard's travel ability makes comparisons to other classes, who have to do things like walking (sigh), really hard

[RamsenC]

Part of the reason Vanguards are so damaging is they almost always get the double damage bonus at melee range. Sentinel's ideal range is just outside of melee range and most of your offense will be from stripping/setting up biotic combos. Since warp explosions are so powerful a Sentinel could kick just as much ass as a Vanguard, but in a completely different way. If you try to play a Sentinel like a Vanguard you will just be gimping yourself. Don't waste points on an ammo power for Sentinel, just take your core skills and get ammo from a buddy.



Sentinel is definitely a better swiss army knife, but Vanguard is a giant claymore.

[Sabresandiego]

Assault sentinel is my second favorite class after vanguard. Ill be making some sentinel videos soon, havent had a chance to play in the last couple days.

[rumination888]

Assault Armor is meant to be blown off.
Charge is meant to close gaps.

2 completely different playstyles.

[VirtualAlex]

rumination888 wrote...

Assault Armor is meant to be blown off.
Charge is meant to close gaps.

2 completely different playstyles.

Both skills allow you to recharge your shield frequently and absorb tons of damage. If you play a sent like a vanguard, they are very similar classes. I am currently deep into an AS run and I took shotgun from the ship and it feels very similar in concept. Obviously I need to work a little harder getting close, but once I am it plays very close.

I storm in, get my armor blown off, knock everyone down/back, blow the first guy away while everyone reels, reset armor, and repeat. Once I get behind enemy lines it's the same pattern of spamming my class skill and blasting at point blank.

[rumination888]

The recharge shield effect is simply to help with personal survivability, and increased survivability via the class skill is something shared by Soldiers, Infiltrators, Vanguards, and Sentinels.

With that said, I prefer the Vindicator on a Sentinel. I can blow off the protection of enemies as I'm moving forward so that my armor knocks down all the enemies, rather than only staggering them. The weapon meshes better with the huge radius of Assault Armor, as well as complementing the Sentinel's other powers.

You can take a shotty and be a Vanguard-lite if you want, but I'd rather play to the strength of Assault Armor.

[VirtualAlex]

I think taking a shotty perfectly plays to the strength of assault armor. It lets you get in close, stay in close, and provides a nice AOE CC. But like Is aid, if you choose to play a sent as a vanguard, it's perfectly do-able.



If you want to play the Sent more defensively stay at medium range and Vindicate/Explode all over then it's perfectly suited to that.

[RamsenC]

I also prefer Vindicator on Sentinel. The effective range of the shotguns are far lower than people think, you are better off using a Vindicator at these ranges. Without charge there is no way a Sentinel will be in shotgun range most of the time.

[rumination888]

VirtualAlex wrote...

I think taking a shotty perfectly plays to the strength of assault armor. It lets you get in close, stay in close, and provides a nice AOE CC. But like Is aid, if you choose to play a sent as a vanguard, it's perfectly do-able.

If you want to play the Sent more defensively stay at medium range and Vindicate/Explode all over then it's perfectly suited to that.

You can say the same thing to the Soldier and Infiltrator. Their abilities allow you to get in close and stay in close.

I'm not saying you can't use a shotgun with a Sentinel, i'm just saying the playstyle for an optimal Sentinel relies on shooting while moving forward in combination with the Assault Armor's huge AoE. A playstyle thats different from the Vanguard.

The Vindicator has perfect accuracy while on the move and without needing to aim, gains a x1.25 range bonus at longer range than a shotty, and gets the same x2 range bonus at point-blank. Think about that for a second.

Modifié par rumination888, 10 mars 2010 - 01:24 .

[RamsenC]

rumination888 wrote...

The Vindicator has perfect accuracy while on the move and without needing to aim, gains a x1.25 range bonus at longer range than a shotty, and gets the same x2 range bonus at point-blank. Think about that for a second.

You are a wise man. Heres some proof the Vindicator does not suck up close. Not saying you should use it on Vanguard over a Scimitar, but on Sentinel yes.

[kefka004]

I tried an Assault Sentinel with the shotgun and it was very effective when I actually got in melee range. However, I found I preferred the move and shoot approach method with the SMG. It has great synergy with assault armor because by the time they were able to destroy it, between Tempest bursts and squad abilities I usually had two or three enemies down to health get caught in the blast giving me a lot of breathing room and time to pop my armor up again. If I were to do it over again, I'd definitely take assault rifles instead of shotguns.

[Darnalak]

Bah! Taking the Vindicator is an insult to the Tempest! (er, even if it is a fantastic weapon... ).

[ccconda]

Would the tempest do similar close-range damage to shotties and the vindicator? That's the question.

but yeah the tempest rocks

[kefka004]

Darnalak wrote...

Bah! Taking the Vindicator is an insult to the Tempest! (er, even if it is a fantastic weapon... ).

Hehe, I love the Tempest as much as the next guy, but it's hard to argue with the ridiculous headshot capability of the Vindicator even while you're on the move.  I'd be curious to see how broken the Sentinel would be if he could use the Revenant:blink:.

[RamsenC]

The problem with the tempest is you can't juke and jive with it. You must plant yourself or your accuracy will be terrible. Also headshots, can't forget headshots.

[Darnalak]

Oh come now, Tempest spray fills entire screens. Even if you don't hit your target, 3-4 other guys will take shots (even if one of 'em's behind you). Seriously though, yeah, it's in accurate, but I find, that even on the move, as long as you're aiming, most of your shots will hit the target (yeah, don't ask for any head shots mind you) and for tearing a shield off, thats really all I can ask, getting them into the red means I can freeze or throw them, and beat them to death with the solid end of the Tempest.

[VirtualAlex]

You can say the same thing to the Soldier and Infiltrator. Their abilities allow you to get in close and stay in close.

I'm not saying you can't use a shotgun with a Sentinel, i'm just saying the playstyle for an optimal Sentinel relies on shooting while moving forward in combination with the Assault Armor's huge AoE. A playstyle thats different from the Vanguard. 

I don't agree here. The classes you mention do not have a move that recharges their shields. They do not have the survivabilty. The abilities they have may allow you to hide and let the timed shields refill, this is very different gameplay than the run and gun vanguard style. They simply cannot charge into 4 enemies and come out alive without hiding and waiting.

My goal here isn't to prove that sent is a better vanguard than a vanguard, or that a CQC (close-quarters-combat) sent is better than a mid-range-field control sent. I am simply saying that, if you choose to use him in a CQC way, Assault armor will act in a very similar way that charge does. It allows you to stay in the middle of 4 or more enemies and not get killed. No other class can do that (Vanguard aside obv) unless you count infiltrator standing invisibly.

Is it better to take AR and stay at med-range? I don't know, I didn't have any trouble winning battles either way. I feel it's more fun and action packed to get INSIDE the enemy ranks and tear them all up while recharging my massive shields over and over. Just like a vanguard does.