48 réponses à ce sujet

[kefka004]

As long as I didn't go full-auto I could hit my intended target even while on the move with the Tempest. The Vindicator would just facilitate the process.

[RamsenC]

Darnalak wrote...

Oh come now, Tempest spray fills entire screens. Even if you don't hit your target, 3-4 other guys will take shots (even if one of 'em's behind you). Seriously though, yeah, it's in accurate, but I find, that even on the move, as long as you're aiming, most of your shots will hit the target (yeah, don't ask for any head shots mind you) and for tearing a shield off, thats really all I can ask, getting them into the red means I can freeze or throw them, and beat them to death with the solid end of the Tempest.

You move too slowly when you are aiming for my tastes and when you aren't aiming you miss too many shots. When I was playing Sentinel I was doing more damage with the Vindicator since I was on the move a lot. 

[Darnalak]

oh I definitely won't argue that you were doing more damage I just get real purist with Sentinel. (I almost feel like I'm cheating by adding an advanced weapon). A sentinel with an advanced weapon + an ammo power as a bonus skill has no flaws... it's rather scary really.

[RamsenC]

Darnalak wrote...

oh I definitely won't argue that you were doing more damage I just get real purist with Sentinel. (I almost feel like I'm cheating by adding an advanced weapon). A sentinel with an advanced weapon + an ammo power as a bonus skill has no flaws... it's rather scary really.

I agree, don't think bioware should have allowed extra weapon types, but I can't say no. 

edit: I personally went energy drain as a bonus power and picked up ammo from a squad mate, but either way it was OP. 

Modifié par RamsenC, 10 mars 2010 - 02:10 .

[rumination888]

VirtualAlex wrote...

I don't agree here. The classes you mention do not have a move that recharges their shields. They do not have the survivabilty. The abilities they have may allow you to hide and let the timed shields refill, this is very different gameplay than the run and gun vanguard style. They simply cannot charge into 4 enemies and come out alive without hiding and waiting.

My goal here isn't to prove that sent is a better vanguard than a vanguard, or that a CQC (close-quarters-combat) sent is better than a mid-range-field control sent. I am simply saying that, if you choose to use him in a CQC way, Assault armor will act in a very similar way that charge does. It allows you to stay in the middle of 4 or more enemies and not get killed. No other class can do that (Vanguard aside obv) unless you count infiltrator standing invisibly.

Is it better to take AR and stay at med-range? I don't know, I didn't have any trouble winning battles either way. I feel it's more fun and action packed to get INSIDE the enemy ranks and tear them all up while recharging my massive shields over and over. Just like a vanguard does.

You seem to equate mid-range-field control with the Vindicator.
Not once did I imply that you should play at mid-range.
I said to move forward and shoot.
Big difference.

[VirtualAlex]

I really feel like you are trying to pick fights. I am sorry if I misunderstood. But you are saying that you "prefer" a vindicator in order to blow off armor so that your armor knocks everyone down. You are shooting the majority of your bullets from med range, when you get close your armor does the work (probably a few more bullets). And you say this is a different tactic than a vanguard employs. You are correct, it's different and very effective. I am not contesting this point one bit. I am only contesting what you said here.

rumination888 wrote...

Assault Armor is meant to be blown off.
Charge is meant to close gaps.

2 completely different playstyles.

I say it like this:

Assault Armor is gives you massive surviability
Charge is meant to give you massive survivabiility

These two can play in a very similar fashion. Which is charge and kill with a disregard for cover.

[ccconda]

Now im curious what weapons and tactics are best for a sentinel.

Averagegatsby once told me that an assault armor spamming sentinel isnt playing sentinel correctly. However, his sentinel compilation vid is him mainly using assault armor and getting into mid range fights.

And I haven't seen ANY close-range sentinel vids.

[rumination888]

VirtualAlex wrote...

I really feel like you are trying to pick fights. I am sorry if I misunderstood. But you are saying that you "prefer" a vindicator in order to blow off armor so that your armor knocks everyone down. You are shooting the majority of your bullets from med range, when you get close your armor does the work (probably a few more bullets). And you say this is a different tactic than a vanguard employs. You are correct, it's different and very effective. I am not contesting this point one bit. I am only contesting what you said here.

rumination888 wrote...

Assault Armor is meant to be blown off.
Charge is meant to close gaps.

2 completely different playstyles.

I say it like this:

Assault Armor is gives you massive surviability
Charge is meant to give you massive survivabiility

These two can play in a very similar fashion. Which is charge and kill with a disregard for cover.

I get the feeling you're the one trying to pick a fight with me.

I don't know why you keep trying to argue that what makes them unique is their massive survivability. Because as I keep saying, even the Soldier and Infiltrator's class skill gives you massive survivability.

There isn't a single class that can stay out in the open the entire time with disregard to cover. Even the Vanguard takes cover if enemies are shooting at them out of shotgun range when Charge is on cooldown. If Tech Armor is on cooldown a Sentinel is going to be taking cover as well. Heck, if an Engineer or Adept grabs Barrier/Geth Shields they can do it too. Their drone/singularity CCs one target at long range while they spend the rest of their cooldowns spamming shields.

[ccconda]

Rumination, you're wrong. Tech armor gives you CC with the blast, and a 50% boost once your shield goes down, and so forth.
Charge gives you a small CC, movement, and refills your shield, and cools down really fast.
These two moves can be used over and over because they provide offensive capabilities along with defensive capabilities, and their defensive effects stay around long enough to recast (or their defense comes often enough, like with charge).

Barrier and geth shield boost have too long a cooldown, a small shield boost that doesnt stick aroudn long enough NOR is recastable enough, and provide no offensive 'kick' to make them effective spammable moves. Simply playing the game shows you that barrer etc aren't spammable. Come on. Using these moves LOCK your character down, and people restate this over and over for a reason.
The reason why charge, for example, DOESNT lock you down is because it also has that offensive side to it. Same with assault armor. It's not solely a defense ability. Don't let us continue discussing this simple fact.

And to both of you, stop annoyingly stating "we are fighting" and acknowledging fight-picking-ness.

Modifié par ccconda, 10 mars 2010 - 03:21 .

[rumination888]

ccconda wrote...

Rumination, you're wrong. Tech armor gives you CC with the blast, and a 50% boost once your shield goes down, and so forth.
Charge gives you a small CC, movement, and refills your shield, and cools down really fast.
These two moves can be used over and over because they provide offensive capabilities along with defensive capabilities, and their defensive effects stay around long enough to recast (or their defense comes often enough, like with charge).

Barrier and geth shield boost have too long a cooldown, a small shield boost that doesnt stick aroudn long enough NOR is recastable enough, and provide no offensive 'kick' to make them effective spammable moves. Simply playing the game shows you that barrer etc aren't spammable. Come on

And to both of you, stop annoyingly stating "we are fighting" and acknowledging fight-picking-ness.

You're looking at Barrier and Geth Shields in a vacuum.

What is the cooldown on Drone and Singularity and how long do they typically last?
What is the cooldown on Tech Armor, Barriers, and Geth Shields?
How much cooldown reduction does the Sentinel, Adept, and Engineer gain per rank in passive?
What is the earliest point that you gain the -20% cooldown Tech upgrade?
What is the earliest point that you gain the -20% cooldown Biotic upgrade?

Modifié par rumination888, 10 mars 2010 - 03:27 .

[ccconda]

????

If you use barrier and GSB over and over, you will gimp yourself. Period. Go get barrier or GSB as your bonus talent and try it out. I'm not going to continue discussing this, you can make a thread about it if you want, its off topic.

[rumination888]

ccconda wrote...

????
If you use barrier and GSB over and over, you will gimp yourself. Period. Go get barrier or GSB as your bonus talent and try it out. I'm not going to continue discussing this, you can make a thread about it if you want, its off topic.

/facepalm

[ccconda]

If barrier and GSB gave players the constant defense needed to let any class play as vanguards and assault sentinels, most classes would use these skills.

[SmilingMirror]

You know, by the end of the game barrier and GSB aren't really that bad of talents. Infact Heavy Barrier + Assault Armor is one of my favorite combinations.

and singularity can freeze people long enough to pick them off with a shotgun.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 10 mars 2010 - 04:47 .

[VirtualAlex]

I don't know why you keep trying to argue that what makes them unique is their massive survivability. Because as I keep saying, even the Soldier and Infiltrator's class skill gives you massive survivability.

I haven't experimented infiltrator and soldier enough to really put forth much evidence. However I have played both vanguard and sentinel quite a bit and a vanguard and sentinel CAN stand out in the open and not die. You need to keep moving and take advantage of line-of-sight breakers but you don't even need to "Take cover" and recharge your shields in 80% of the fights in the game. Vanguard has an very fast cooldown, he can easily spam charge faster than he dies. Sent has a stun and +50% more shields to hold you over before the next cast. I am not sure how a soldier or infiltrator can replicate this effect.



I am not sure what your point is anymore actually. Is it that Sentinels are SUPPOSED to be played like vanguards? Because we both on pretty subjective ground. I am simply saying sentinels definitely CAN be played like vanguards and very successfully.

[rumination888]

VirtualAlex wrote...

I don't know why you keep trying to argue that what makes them unique is their massive survivability. Because as I keep saying, even the Soldier and Infiltrator's class skill gives you massive survivability.

I haven't experimented infiltrator and soldier enough to really put forth much evidence. However I have played both vanguard and sentinel quite a bit and a vanguard and sentinel CAN stand out in the open and not die. You need to keep moving and take advantage of line-of-sight breakers but you don't even need to "Take cover" and recharge your shields in 80% of the fights in the game. Vanguard has an very fast cooldown, he can easily spam charge faster than he dies. Sent has a stun and +50% more shields to hold you over before the next cast. I am not sure how a soldier or infiltrator can replicate this effect.

I am not sure what your point is anymore actually. Is it that Sentinels are SUPPOSED to be played like vanguards? Because we both on pretty subjective ground. I am simply saying sentinels definitely CAN be played like vanguards and very successfully.

A Sentinel shoots and moves forward at the same time. See an enemy over 20 meters away? Thats fine. Shoot and move forward at the same time.

A Vanguard shoots around their vicinity, Charges to the next spot, shoots around their vicinity, Charges to the next spot, etc. See an enemy over 20 meters away and Charge hasn't finished cooling down? Take cover.

Thats the general flow of a battle when I play those classes, which isn't the same at all.
Maybe i'm playing the classes wrong, I don't know.

[VirtualAlex]

There are many way to play each class. You sentinel tactics work perfectly well and is one of the many way to play it.



I still hold to the statement that the sentinel is the second best vanguard.

[rumination888]

VirtualAlex wrote...

There are many way to play each class. You sentinel tactics work perfectly well and is one of the many way to play it.

I still hold to the statement that the sentinel is the second best vanguard.

So then how does the general flow of battle go when you play a Sentinel?

[ccconda]

Jesus rumination, not all players play the same way or at the same pace. But that doesn't mean all the defensive skills are similar in ability. Charge and Assault armor allow you to play certain ways that other abilities don't.



Please stop bringing wacky stuff like "how does every battle go, pace-wise, as a sentinel" because there's no way to answer that in any useful way. Truly a pointless topic to endeavor, and if youre truly interested in what would be an essay-length response, make a new topic and inquire there.

[rumination888]

ccconda wrote...

Jesus rumination, not all players play the same way or at the same pace. But that doesn't mean all the defensive skills are similar in ability. Charge and Assault armor allow you to play certain ways that other abilities don't.

Please stop bringing wacky stuff like "how does every battle go, pace-wise, as a sentinel" because there's no way to answer that in any useful way. Truly a pointless topic to endeavor, and if youre truly interested in what would be an essay-length response, make a new topic and inquire there.

So how, pray tell, can you play a Sentinel in a similar fasion as a Vanguard?
Don't tell me you move forward without shooting until they're in the vicinity of a shotgun blast?
...because other classes can do the same.

[ccconda]

Not responding to rumination any more. Anyone else have anything to say/offer on the subject of assault armor viability in close range situations? Videos, perhaps?

[bevey2176]

I wish I could make a video of my playing my assault sentinel but I am just too lazy to learn how to use fraps. I have used both AR and Shotgun and I can say that I find the AR play style to be more fitting of the power armor spam play style. I find myself rushing and almost exclusively using only the shotgun and feel very much like my vanguard play. You have to keep in mind that you have to strip most of the enemies barriers away through teammate skills then just charge in, some times you can fit a warp or overload in between tech armors and I usually kill things with shotgun/melee.

[VirtualAlex]

rumination888 wrote...

So then how does the general flow of battle go when you play a Sentinel?

I take cover and cast overload/warp and use all my allies abilities. then while the enemies stagger I advance as far as I think I can before having to hide again. I repeat this process until I see an opportunity to charge. Usually after I CC one of the enemies with a cryo or somethng, or when more than 1 are down to health. it's all about closing the gap. Once I am in the enemy ranks, then I run, gun, and spam armor.

[VirtualAlex]

ccconda wrote...

Not responding to rumination any more. Anyone else have anything to say/offer on the subject of assault armor viability in close range situations? Videos, perhaps?

I wish I could take videos but I am a 360 player.

Another fun thing to do is to use the avalanche. You get in close and start blasting, the radius is usually big enough to hit 2-3 enemies. The best part of it is while the enemies are freezing they can still fire for a bit. They blow off your armor right as they go ice, and your explosion blasts them and they shatter! It's sweet.