231 réponses à ce sujet

[Commander Darmok]

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

I'd like more customization, and variation.

But I hated everything about the loot in ME1.

THIS.  I think if we left the ME2 system in place, and just added more to it, no one would ever complain.  If you could find an "epic" (forgive the WoW reference, I quit - I swear,) chestpiece upgrade, or choose addons to your weapons (think a scope on a pistol or something,) this loot system would be perfect.  Randomizing the locations of everything might appease people, but it doesn't really concern me, because I don't exactly have it memorized.

[Bill Hooks]

A thought I had recently: would anyone have complained about the ME1 loot system if hitting the item limit meant you shed your lowest quality gear, instead of losing the new stuff you just found? I mean, that was the real problem, wasn't it? It was for me. Well, that and not being able to shift-select on an Xbox controller, so I had to omni-gel useless crap one item at a time.

[MassEffect762]

Bann Duncan wrote...

I think 'loot' is a major immersion breaker. I know some will say this is because I'm a 'shooter fan', as that's the usual rebuttal to anyone criticising a hallowed 'essential RPG element' so I'll pre-empt that by pointing out that I've only bought one shooter in the past five years.

It's really hard for me to RP a character and accept the fact that he or she is invisibly carrying 150 sets of armor and weapons for various races. It seems much more RP to change these whilst on the ship.

Also, I much prefer being able to actually strategically customise armor rather than switch between the same armor with different textures.

Simple solution, all loot is automatically scanned to the normandy.  You equip gear on the normandy before missions.(just like ME2)

Customization aspect: Two types of Armors "modular" and "fixed" armors. N7(and it's type)would be fully customizable were as Colossus would be fixed and offer better bonuses to certain areas.

Weapons and armor have upgrade slots again, and ammo types return as upgrades.(more room for actual skills)

You carry nothing with you but that which you have equipped beforehand.

[Andaius20]

All they would have to do is give you access to your "loot" after the battle that way you can just imagine they salvaged the battlefields and brought everything back to the Normandy.

[TJSolo]

Bann Duncan wrote...

I think 'loot' is a major immersion breaker. I know some will say this is because I'm a 'shooter fan', as that's the usual rebuttal to anyone criticising a hallowed 'essential RPG element' so I'll pre-empt that by pointing out that I've only bought one shooter in the past five years.

It's really hard for me to RP a character and accept the fact that he or she is invisibly carrying 150 sets of armor and weapons for various races. It seems much more RP to change these whilst on the ship.

Also, I much prefer being able to actually strategically customise armor rather than switch between the same armor with different textures.

You stat stack your armor, that is all.
Strategic customization only comes up when fighting and making a choice to optimize the damage you do. Ammo powers if you have them.
There was more strategic customization in ME1 in that there were more attributes on gear and weapon mods you could do per battle.
Then again you say the "magic bag" broke your immersion. I guess having your "magic weapons locker" appear in the strangest of places provides you better immersion.
The "magic bag" is not a hallowed RPG element; it is just a factor any game that has items uses. Shooters still have a "magic bag" able to lug around more clips, magazines, rockets, grenades, and mines then any soldier ever could.

[Metallisika]

Bann Duncan wrote...

I think 'loot' is a major immersion breaker. I know some will say this is because I'm a 'shooter fan', as that's the usual rebuttal to anyone criticising a hallowed 'essential RPG element' so I'll pre-empt that by pointing out that I've only bought one shooter in the past five years.

It's really hard for me to RP a character and accept the fact that he or she is invisibly carrying 150 sets of armor and weapons for various races. It seems much more RP to change these whilst on the ship.

Also, I much prefer being able to actually strategically customise armor rather than switch between the same armor with different textures.

This too has sides to it. Yes, it's difficult to explain where all the loot actually goes, but I think it's equally difficult to try to explain why my squadmates are now handling copies of the weapon I found just a second ago. Or how did my weapon locker from Normandy get into middle of the zone (or why the enemies' weapon lockers contain the exact same items as my locker back on the ship).

Customizing armour is really well done I admit, but there isn't enough of pieces to choose from. And it makes no sense that Garrus is still wearing the same broken armor even though he had plenty of time to switch.

[Bann Duncan]

Metallisika wrote...

Bann Duncan wrote...

I think 'loot' is a major immersion breaker. I know some will say this is because I'm a 'shooter fan', as that's the usual rebuttal to anyone criticising a hallowed 'essential RPG element' so I'll pre-empt that by pointing out that I've only bought one shooter in the past five years.

It's really hard for me to RP a character and accept the fact that he or she is invisibly carrying 150 sets of armor and weapons for various races. It seems much more RP to change these whilst on the ship.

Also, I much prefer being able to actually strategically customise armor rather than switch between the same armor with different textures.

This too has sides to it. Yes, it's difficult to explain where all the loot actually goes, but I think it's equally difficult to try to explain why my squadmates are now handling copies of the weapon I found just a second ago. Or how did my weapon locker from Normandy get into middle of the zone (or why the enemies' weapon lockers contain the exact same items as my locker back on the ship).

Customizing armour is really well done I admit, but there isn't enough of pieces to choose from. And it makes no sense that Garrus is still wearing the same broken armor even though he had plenty of time to switch.

I agree - but new pieces are things that can be easily added via DLC (theoretically - so far we've only received full armor sets, which I don't particularly care for - some of which don't have a FemShep version so she turns into a man with a female face). As for Garrus, I thought that his post-Sidonis outfit would be repaired armor.

Let me point out that I avoid the weapons lockers in missions for RP purposes as well.

[DarknessBear]

Let's just all thank our higher powers that Bioware is not making Diablo 3. *shudders*

[OneBadAssMother]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

The upgrade system is way better then picking up countless pieces of the same armor and/or weapons IMO

Agreed, it's less tedious (either then planet scanning). I hate loot management.

[TJSolo]

OneBadAssMother wrote...

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

The upgrade system is way better then picking up countless pieces of the same armor and/or weapons IMO

Agreed, it's less tedious (either then planet scanning). I hate loot management.

Loot management is very is if you hate it.
Either don't look at it, delete it all or sell all of it.

[Cross1280]

While I do think that ME2 could use a few more weapons and armor pieces.
 
 I still find it Ironic that everything said in this post and oother posts of what is needed to be considered an RPG, I.E. Loot system, Exp per kill, Charcter customization, playing a specific role, this list goes on, can be and is found in Dawn of War: 2 yet that game is not considered an RPG at all but a Tactical stratagy game.

 So to me personally all these arguments that thhis is not an RPG because it lacks this or that fall flat and are baseless when there is a game that includes everything you describe but yet you say it is not an RPG.

I have been plaing RPG's sense the very first Box set of D & D, which is longer than probably most of the people on these fourms have been alive. If you want mad loot great i hope the put it in and I also hope they put in a str requirement that bases how much you can carry off of your strength. This is how must traditional RPG's are set up but most of you ingnore that rule just so you can have your 'Phat Lewts' ala WoW/EQ

[slyguy07]

Ze crapper!

[TJSolo]

Cross1280 wrote...

While I do think that ME2 could use a few more weapons and armor pieces.
 
 I still find it Ironic that everything said in this post and oother posts of what is needed to be considered an RPG, I.E. Loot system, Exp per kill, Charcter customization, playing a specific role, this list goes on, can be and is found in Dawn of War: 2 yet that game is not considered an RPG at all but a Tactical stratagy game.

 So to me personally all these arguments that thhis is not an RPG because it lacks this or that fall flat and are baseless when there is a game that includes everything you describe but yet you say it is not an RPG.

I have been plaing RPG's sense the very first Box set of D & D, which is longer than probably most of the people on these fourms have been alive. If you want mad loot great i hope the put it in and I also hope they put in a str requirement that bases how much you can carry off of your strength. This is how must traditional RPG's are set up but most of you ingnore that rule just so you can have your 'Phat Lewts' ala WoW/EQ

The topic isn't that loot means RPG.
The topic is ME2 is lacking loot.

STR can be used as a limiter for carrying just like bag size can. I don't recall playing a game that used STR and bag size as limiters at the same time.

[slyguy07]

Okay I am thinking now would be a good time to post my poll on loot:

social.bioware.com/965313/polls/3066/

[Duncan1337]

Loot is one of my favorite things about RPG's but when it isnt there it its really not a big deal to me.



I barley even noticed there wasnt any on ME2 because I was so into the story.



I would like loot back for ME3 though.

[cruc1al]

TJSolo wrote...

The topic isn't that loot means RPG.
The topic is ME2 is lacking loot.

Yes, ME2 lacks loot.

[/thread]

[SurfaceBeneath]

Babu Yagu wrote...

Where is all the LOOT. I used to grind ME1 for days to get the best loot.

....

You disgust me. Get out.

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 09 mars 2010 - 04:10 .

[Terror_K]

The thing is, whenever somebody complains about the lack of loot, inventory and items a bunch of people come into defend ME2 by quoting how the original game failed at these aspects as if what ME1 did was the only way to do things. Yes, ME1's inventory and loot sucked for the most part, but that doesn't mean there's no alternative beyond cutting it out entirely and slapping in a basic shooter-styled system with upgrades slapped onto it.



ME2 is still an RPG, if only just. It could do with being more of one and a better one though. It doesn't need to go fully AD&D or anything, in fact I feel the original ME1 had the mix about right, but just had a lot of broken systems and items that could have used work instead of being binned and replaced by what are essentially simple shooter mechanics in most cases.

[Murmillos]

TJSolo wrote...

If ME2 was the only ME game or the first ME game there would be less of an issue on how loot was handled.
But ME2 is a sequel and not a standalone game the problem is on how dissimilar loot is handled when compared to its predecessor.

I think this is the heart of the problem; the such drastic change. A lot of of the changes from ME to ME2 are drastic; ME2 feels such an alien-like game. Some changes are for the better, some were for the worst (and everybody is going to have a different opinion about what got better and turned worse).

A lot of people wanted minor fixes/tweaks to the ME1 system - but instead we found we have been handed something that went thru complete body altering surgery.

Modifié par Murmillos, 09 mars 2010 - 05:29 .

[WilliamShatner]

I like big loots and I can not lie.



Looting is fun. It's always a thrill finding a rare or special item.



Doom has more "loot" than ME2.

[TornadoADV]

So we lose our loot for a pathetic armor system where if you get some Dr.pepper loot, (It's like ME1 loot, except you have to spend actual money to get it!) Your max shield bonus can be +15%, when shields are utterly pointless on anything over Veteran. (That includes Veteran+)



Yeah, I'll stick with ME1, thanks.

[Massadonious1]

I'm starting to dislike all these entitled douchebags who somehow feel BioWare owes them because they spent their paper route money on Baldur's Gate, and each subsequent game has to follow in it's footsteps.

I don't mind loot and other traditional RPG systems when they are done well, but not every game they do has to be a loot-tastic, min/maxing stat fest, and it definetly shouldn't be considered any less of a RPG for the same reasons.

I'll play Dragon Age if I want such things. The Mass Effect story is better served, and works out fine, maybe even better, with the system it has now.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 09 mars 2010 - 06:59 .

[TornadoADV]

Massadonious1 wrote...

I'm starting to dislike all these entitled douchebags who somehow feel BioWare owes them because they spent their paper route money on Baldur's Gate, and each subsequent game has to follow in it's footsteps.

I don't mind loot and other traditional RPG systems when they are done well, but not every game they do has to be a loot-tastic, min/maxing stat fest, and it definetly shouldn't be considered any less of a RPG for the same reasons.

I'll play Dragon Age if I want such things. The Mass Effect story is better served, and works out fine, maybe even better, with the system it has now.

Because a great way to hold a civilized discussion is to insult the other person. Of course, how did I not see this?

Also, the loot system wasen't the issue in ME1, it was the speed at which it filled your inventory and sometimes actually getting loot of an inferior Mk. then what you've been using!

Also, never min-maxed in ME1, never felt a need to do so.

[Massadonious1]

TornadoADV wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

I'm starting to dislike all these entitled douchebags who somehow feel BioWare owes them because they spent their paper route money on Baldur's Gate, and each subsequent game has to follow in it's footsteps.

I don't mind loot and other traditional RPG systems when they are done well, but not every game they do has to be a loot-tastic, min/maxing stat fest, and it definetly shouldn't be considered any less of a RPG for the same reasons.

I'll play Dragon Age if I want such things. The Mass Effect story is better served, and works out fine, maybe even better, with the system it has now.

Because a great way to hold a civilized discussion is to insult the other person. Of course, how did I not see this?

Your concern is noted.

Maybe if every other thread wasn't "where's mah rpgz?" "I need mah lootz" or "i've been playing RPG's since the wheel was invented, make games mah way, or else.", I wouldn't feel so fustrated with the discourse that these forums provide.

[Taxonomical]

Massadonious1 wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

I'm starting to dislike all these entitled douchebags who somehow feel BioWare owes them because they spent their paper route money on Baldur's Gate, and each subsequent game has to follow in it's footsteps.

I don't mind loot and other traditional RPG systems when they are done well, but not every game they do has to be a loot-tastic, min/maxing stat fest, and it definetly shouldn't be considered any less of a RPG for the same reasons.

I'll play Dragon Age if I want such things. The Mass Effect story is better served, and works out fine, maybe even better, with the system it has now.

Because a great way to hold a civilized discussion is to insult the other person. Of course, how did I not see this?

Your concern is noted.

Maybe if every other thread wasn't "where's mah rpgz?" "I need mah lootz" or "i've been playing RPG's since the wheel was invented, make games mah way, or else.", I wouldn't feel so fustrated with the discourse that these forums provide.

I think it's the concern that many (rightfully) have about how anything with a hitpoint bar and an experience level is being called an RPG nowadays. While I love ME2, I have to admit that it lacks many of the features that make a game an RPG.

Certainly a story is one of them, but any brain dead troglodyte with the ability to process sound into words can follow a story. RPG'ers crave a more stimulating challenge. This is where the "numbers" part of that comes in.

If all someone wants is a riveting plot, then they'd best be served reading a book rather than playing a video game. RPG'ers want strategy, complexity, and challenge.