231 réponses à ce sujet

[DaBigDragon]

The removal of Loot was one of the best things they did for this game. I hated digging through 50 guns to find the "best" one. It was a pain in the ass.

[jack3auer]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

A BIT of RPG elements? You may not know it, but the biggest element of a RPG is the story, not the inventory system. In that regard, as well as Side Questing ( loyalty missions ) and Exploration ME2 is clearly one of the best RPG games of all time.

Story alone doesn't make a game a CRPG.  Is Heavy Rain a CRPG?  No.  Was Indigo Prophecy?  No.  Both those games have a heavy and deep story but neither were CRPGs.  A CRPG is a combination of elements that creates a game greater than the sum of its parts.  Remove one or two elements you no longer have a CRPG.

As for exploration, I hardly count survey missions as exploration.  If you cannot land on a planet then you aren't truly exploring it.  ME2 is a fine Gears of War knock off with lite RPG elements, but it is not a real CRPG like its predecessor.  Dragon Age is a CRPG.  Neverwinter Nights is a CRPG.  Mass Effect 1 is a CRPG.  Even Fallout 3 is a CRPG.

Mass Effect 2 is not.

ME2 is a CRPG because you make individual choices that effect the outcome of the story,  if thats not the essence of a CRPG i have no idea what is.  saying ME2 is like gears is like me saying fallout 3 is rip off of Call of duty.

i loved Fallout3 by the way, easily one of the best games i have ever played along with Oblivion and the mass effect games.      your idea of an RPG is different from other peoples ideas of what makes an RPG.

[Killian Kalthorne]

You can do that in Heavy Rain but that doesn't make it a CRPG, Jack.

My idea that makes a CRPG combines elements of story, character development (game mechanic and story wise), inventory management, looting the enemies, and exploration.

Remove any one of these elements and the game just isn't a CRPG.

Modifié par Killian Kalthorne, 09 mars 2010 - 12:48 .

[SurfaceBeneath]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...
Story alone doesn't make a game a CRPG.  Is Heavy Rain a CRPG?  No.  Was Indigo Prophecy?  No.  Both those games have a heavy and deep story but neither were CRPGs.  A CRPG is a combination of elements that creates a game greater than the sum of its parts.  Remove one or two elements you no longer have a CRPG.

As for exploration, I hardly count survey missions as exploration.  If you cannot land on a planet then you aren't truly exploring it.  ME2 is a fine Gears of War knock off with lite RPG elements, but it is not a real CRPG like its predecessor.  Dragon Age is a CRPG.  Neverwinter Nights is a CRPG.  Mass Effect 1 is a CRPG.  Even Fallout 3 is a CRPG.

Mass Effect 2 is not.

An RPG is defined by being a game in which the player does not just control the person on screen, but rather steps into the Avatar of the protagonist and "becomes" that character, making choices that influence the game (or narrative in particularly good rpgs) in some manner. The mechanics of the RPG that we are familiar with were simply created in order to mimic the pen and paper experience, which in of itself was only made because PnP players needed some rules to ground their games on. Now, it's fine to like those "mechanics" and to wish Mass Effect 2 did not stray as far from them, but that doesn't make it a lesser RPG because it still fulfills every true RPG role the original did, and actually even expands on it in a few ways (such as interupts).

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 09 mars 2010 - 12:50 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Perhaps you should take a look at the definition of CRPGs then: http://en.wikipedia...._and_chronology



There are plenty of CRPGs with no inventory system ( older games mostly ). The RPG genre came based upon Dungeons and Dragons.

[jack3auer]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

You can do that in Heavy Rain but that doesn't make it a CRPG, Jack.

fair point i guess.   but  RPG means Role Playing Game.  ie you play the role of a certain character and put your own take on how that character behaves in the virtual world, making moral choices and altering the outcome of the story.

 thats as basic  as i can get it.  if you are saying that to qualify as an rpg you have to be able to carry a sword that does +3 damage points against shields, & a gold talisman that has +15 defence against fire dragon attacks, then that to me is just NTRPG -   Nerdy tweeky RPG.     

your point seems to be that since you cant drive around umpteen lifeless planets that ME2 is less of an RPG than ME1.   i haven't missed the mako one bit TBH the thing handled fine for me, but i dont miss it

[Killian Kalthorne]

You have your opinion and I have mine, and you aren't going to change my opinion that ME2 is not a CRPG. Its is an action game, like Gears of War, with some RPG elements in it. That is my view of the game. Nothing you say will change that. If Bioware decides to go this route with ME3 I will wait til the game is in the bargin bin to buy it.



I simply have greater requirements for a game to be classified as a CRPG than you do.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Perhaps you should take a look at the definition of CRPGs then: http://en.wikipedia...._and_chronology

There are plenty of CRPGs with no inventory system ( older games mostly ). The RPG genre came based upon Dungeons and Dragons.

I don't care what other people classify what makes a CRPG.  I only care what I classify what makes a CRPG.

ME2 is not a CRPG by my standards.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

You have your opinion and I have mine, and you aren't going to change my opinion that ME2 is not a CRPG. Its is an action game, like Gears of War, with some RPG elements in it. That is my view of the game. Nothing you say will change that. If Bioware decides to go this route with ME3 I will wait til the game is in the bargin bin to buy it.

I simply have greater requirements for a game to be classified as a CRPG than you do.

So why'd you bother to make points about what makes an RPG if you're going to go back and say those points are utterly meaningless and defined by personal preferences? Was there any point to baiting an argument and then just ignoring it when someone refutes your point?

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 09 mars 2010 - 01:13 .

[jack3auer]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Perhaps you should take a look at the definition of CRPGs then: http://en.wikipedia...._and_chronology

There are plenty of CRPGs with no inventory system ( older games mostly ). The RPG genre came based upon Dungeons and Dragons.

does it matter that is it doesn't meet your requirements of what makes a CRPG.  you wont play it again because its not a CRPG?   I am not trying to change your opinion, just understand what makes you think twice about playing a game as good as ME2 more than once.     ME1 & ME2 are both games i have played more than once.  i can count on one hand the number of games i have completed more than once.
I don't care what other people classify what makes a CRPG.  I only care what I classify what makes a CRPG.

Modifié par jack3auer, 09 mars 2010 - 01:16 .

[Killian Kalthorne]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...
So why'd you bother to make points about what makes an RPG if you're going to go back and say those points are utterly meaningless and defined by personal preferences? Was there any point to baiting an argument and then just ignoring it when someone refutes your point?

Because I can.

[jack3auer]

does it matter that is it doesn't meet your requirements of what makes a CRPG.  you wont play it again because its not a CRPG?   I am not trying to change your opinion, just understand what makes you think twice about playing a game as good as ME2 more than once.     ME1 & ME2 are both games i have played more than once.  i can count on one hand the number of games i have completed more than once.
I don't care what other people classify what makes a CRPG.  I only care what I classify what makes a CRPG.

[Killian Kalthorne]

I only really play CRPGs and I have no real interest in playing games that aren't CRPG.

[jack3auer]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

I only really play CRPGs and I have no real interest in playing games that aren't CRPG.

and when your not playing CRPG's you enjoy posting on forums about the non CRPG's.   

ok 

[Killian Kalthorne]

These are also the Mass Effect 1 forums in case you didn't notice.

[jack3auer]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

These are also the Mass Effect 1 forums in case you didn't notice.

Mass Effect General Discussion (NO SPOILERS ALLOWEDDiscuss your general gameplay experiences in Mass Effect parts 1 and 2. Gameplay spoilers are not allowed in this forum. If your post may contain spoiler information, please post in one of the other forums below.

yes ok but your not talking ME 1 are you

[Killian Kalthorne]

I am talking about how Bioware removed elements that made ME1 a CRPG from ME2.

[Stinkface27]

The loot is on the Mako with all the other boring and needless parts of Mass Effect 1.

[jack3auer]

elements like having to go through your inventory of multiple similar items numerous times & convert everything to omni-gel, oooh i miss that. the only thing i miss is the ability to choose the squads armour appearence. the alt costumes are ok, but not as good as the armour thing.

[Killian Kalthorne]

You may found them boring, Stinky, however I did not.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

I am talking about how Bioware removed elements that made ME1 a CRPG from ME2.

In your opinion.

Also, ME1 was never a CRPG. It was released for Xbox and then ported to PC half a year later.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

In your opinion.

Also, ME1 was never a CRPG. It was released for Xbox and then ported to PC half a year later.

In fact.

I know you like to kiss Bioware and ME2s ass surface, but accept the facts. The features that were heavy RPG about ME1 have been scaled back beyond recognition, while the shooter elements are now the core focus of the game.

You can still call ME2 an RPG if you want, but truth is its only an RPG in the sense that its tacked on. It is first and foremost, above all else, a third person shooter.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 09 mars 2010 - 02:06 .

[Killian Kalthorne]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

I am talking about how Bioware removed elements that made ME1 a CRPG from ME2.

In your opinion.

Also, ME1 was never a CRPG. It was released for Xbox and then ported to PC half a year later.

Well, du, in my opinion.  Who else's opinion would I state?

Are you saying consoles aren't computers?  They have a CPU, Hard drive, input and output aspects, and so forth and so on.  A console is simply a specialized computer. 

Modifié par Killian Kalthorne, 09 mars 2010 - 02:12 .

[jack3auer]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

In your opinion.

Also, ME1 was never a CRPG. It was released for Xbox and then ported to PC half a year later.

In fact.

I know you like to kiss Bioware and ME2s ass surface, but accept the facts. The features that were heavy RPG about ME1 have been scaled back beyond recognition, while the shooter elements are now the core focus of the game.

You can still call ME2 an RPG if you want, but truth is its only an RPG in the sense that its tacked on. It is first and foremost, above all else, a third person shooter.

so to be An rpg a
game has to have lots of time fiddling with items that alter HP% and waste time
playing messing with a poor inventory system instead of you know actually fighting
the enemies and saving the galaxy. 

“Humanity
needs you shepherd you master inventory manager you”

[SurfaceBeneath]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

In your opinion.

Also, ME1 was never a CRPG. It was released for Xbox and then ported to PC half a year later.

In fact.

I know you like to kiss Bioware and ME2s ass surface, but accept the facts. The features that were heavy RPG about ME1 have been scaled back beyond recognition, while the shooter elements are now the core focus of the game.

You can still call ME2 an RPG if you want, but truth is its only an RPG in the sense that its tacked on. It is first and foremost, above all else, a third person shooter.

Hi Dink. Nice to see you come out swinging for no god damn reason.

Regardless of the fact that you didn't even address any of my core points earlier, every critical game reviewer considers the game an RPG and classifies it as such. Every retailer files it under genre "RPG". Every game site does the same. So if you're just going to start blanket facting me with your uninformed opinion, I think I'll just appeal to authority and save myself the trouble of attempting to reason with someone for whom there is no reason.

Also, I don't kiss Bioware's ass. I've openly criticized KoTOR, Jade Empire, Neverwinter Nights, and the first Mass Effect. In fact, the only games of theirs I truly do love are Baldur's Gates 1 and 2, Dragon Age: Origins, and Mass Effect 2. Meanwhile, you can't stop crying about a fictional character that you post about more than I speak to my actual real life girlfriend. So yes, tell me who is the more "tr00 fanb0y" when you haven't done anything but been butthurt and revolve your life around the supposed mistreatment of (hilarious, seeing as Liara has gotten more preferential treatment than any character in the series with an entire comic series and their own DLC) a fictional character in the six or so months I've posted regularly here.