231 réponses à ce sujet

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

jack3auer wrote...

so to be An rpg a
game has to have lots of time fiddling with items that alter HP% and waste time
playing messing with a poor inventory system instead of you know actually fighting
the enemies and saving the galaxy. 

“Humanity
needs you shepherd you master inventory manager you”

No not necessarily, but Im not surprised you chocked out that ****** weak excuse. Its standard procedure 101 when some calls out ME2 for being pathetically weak in the RPG department.

However, to be an RPG the game has to offer substantially more complexity and customisation than simple cover based shooting. ME2 is mainly about cover based shooting, regardless of how much people overemphasise the pathetic "streamlined RPG elements".

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 09 mars 2010 - 02:16 .

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Hi Dink. Nice to see you come out swinging for no god damn reason.

Regardless of the fact that you didn't even address any of my core points earlier, every critical game reviewer considers the game an RPG and classifies it as such. Every retailer files it under genre "RPG". Every game site does the same. So if you're just going to start blanket facting me with your uninformed opinion, I think I'll just appeal to authority and save myself the trouble of attempting to reason with someone for whom there is no reason. 

Also, I don't kiss Bioware's ass. I've openly criticized KoTOR, Jade Empire, Neverwinter Nights, and the first Mass Effect. In fact, the only games of theirs I truly do love are Baldur's Gates 1 and 2, Dragon Age: Origins, and Mass Effect 2. Meanwhile, you can't stop crying about a fictional character that you post about more than I speak to my actual real life girlfriend. So yes, tell me who is the more "tr00 fanb0y" when you haven't done anything but been butthurt and revolve your life around the supposed mistreatment of (hilarious, seeing as Liara has gotten more preferential treatment than any character in the series with an entire comic series and their own DLC) a fictional character in the six or so months I've posted regularly here.

Most "citical game reviewers" also gave the game a perfect score, and cant be trusted for ****. Most retailers file it under RPG since that has been what almost every single Bioware game has been before, so why should they suddenly face facts that its a shooter? Theyre trying to sell the friggin game, not catalogue it correctly. I barely even see a store catalogue games according to genre anymore. Only platform.

Oh and why on earth should I have to "address your earlier points"? You like to waltz about the forum proclaiming the "heavy RPG'ness" of ME2. Cant take it when someone does the oppsite, and states what a ****** poor RPG ME2 is? What, you think because it has a plot, and you slightly alter the tone of the protagonist in dialogue and make some minor choices that makes it an RPG? Christ I hate to think how many games classify as RPG under that rule. Face it, the game is entirely built around a third person shooter. ME1 was as well, but balanced it nicely by giving the other elements of the game equal time and effort. ME2 keeps the shooter build, and gives it the centre stage of the entire game.

And honestly, are you that pathetic as to finish by trying to completely dodge the argument? Speak of having no reason, you sling petty insults about a completely unrelated matter? Jeeze Surface, I knew you were pathetic in an argument, but I didnt think you were that bad.

Guess playing the super hardcore RPG complexity of ME2 has left its mark, instead of playing the bland, cover based shooter I played.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 09 mars 2010 - 02:25 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Most "citical game reviewers" also gave the game a perfect score

Perfect score means 10/10. IGN gave it a 9.6, Game Trailers 9.5, Gamespot 9.0. And those are the big ones. I can name small ones like GiantBomb which favored the change to the inventory system, Zero Punctuation : "thank **** for the removal of the inventory", or Angry Joe Show which gave the game a 9.0. Lastly there is a review for a Romanian site which gave the a 8.5, criticizing the removal of weapon mods but welcoming the change for inventory removal.

So seriously cut the crap. I would like to see a Hardcore RPG fan ( like many reviewers for the game ) who has played Bioware games since Baldur's Gate come and say ME2 is not an CRPG. Seriously I would like that.

ME2 is mainly about cover based shooting, regardless of how much people overemphasise the pathetic "streamlined RPG elements".

And combat in other RPGs is SOO much better. Wait no it isn't.

In ME2 you have so many options with the squad, bonus powers, and heavy weapons that it makes the combat feel good. 

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 09 mars 2010 - 02:38 .

[wowpwnslol]

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

RPG's do not mean loot.

Fallout 3, and Final Fantasy, are not Mass Effect, and Mass Effect is not anyone of them.

Loot does not make an RPG, controlling a character to fit a role is what an RPG is mainly about.

Your sir, kindly, are wrong.

Wow... Can anyone please tell me this guy is just trolling? I mean, nobody can be this retarded and still have access to internet.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Didn't read your response Dink. If I wanted your opinion, I'd take a ride on a flying pig to your next lecture.

[Nolenthar]

I would say it's strictly impossible, nowadays, to define a CRPG just on its common elements



- Experience/progression is common to a lot of different kind of games.

- loot exist in a lot of games

- Skills exist in a lot of games.



The most important part of a RPG, IMO, is the fact that you have a great freedom in the way you play your character. It means you can make choice for him/her. You do not evolve in a fully scripted environment (computer/console games are always scripted, don't get me wrong), you have to make your choices. Another important part is the fact that you can define your character aspect (and, when the story allows it, race, sex ...).



On this specific point, I would say we can call ME1 and ME2 a RPG. They offer both possibilities listed above. ME1 didn't offer me more choice than ME2. So, either both are, either none of them is.



My only concern with the roleplaying part in ME2 is the fact that you don't have skills that have an effect of the "non-combat game" (aside Paragon/Renegade, which is more a stat than a skill).

For instance, I don't need a Tech to open a secured lock. I had to get a tech in ME1 if I wanted to hack stuff.



Concerning loot, I would say like a lot of people here. I could have appreciated customizable weapons and a lot more armor sets (like the one I got from DLC)and armor pieces, but the ME2 inventory system is a lot more confortable. I just regret that all armor sets have to be bought and than I cannot find them visiting the world. Idem for the weapon : If I don't get there, I don't get this weapon. That can be improved.



If someone find a definition for a RPG, I'll read carefully.



But

- loot = diablo <> RPG

- experience = diablo <> RPG

- skills = diablo <> RPG.



So, loot, experience and skill doesn't male a RPG

[Babu Yagu]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

What you did doesn't particularly matter. If you don't like the game, then fine, but seriously don't bash it saying it's a bad made game just because you aren't comfortable with the changes they made.

Did i say it was a bad game ? Learn to read before you learn to write.

[jack3auer]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

jack3auer wrote...

so to be An rpg a
game has to have lots of time fiddling with items that alter HP% and waste time
playing messing with a poor inventory system instead of you know actually fighting
the enemies and saving the galaxy. 

“Humanity
needs you shepherd you master inventory manager you”

No not necessarily, but Im not surprised you chocked out that ****** weak excuse. Its standard procedure 101 when some calls out ME2 for being pathetically weak in the RPG department.

However, to be an RPG the game has to offer substantially more complexity and customisation than simple cover based shooting. ME2 is mainly about cover based shooting, regardless of how much people overemphasise the pathetic "streamlined RPG elements".

disagree with this statement much?   your focusing on the combat of mass effect2 rather than the RPG element.  

i can say fallout 3 was an FPS without cover based shooting, doesn't mean it didn't have RPG elements.

ME2 has RPG elements, less than ME1, but streamlined makes for more game playing than messing with loot. which in the opinion of most seems to improve the game.

[Costin_Razvan]

Learn to read before you learn to write.

How about you do the same, seeing as I was replying to another person.

[Babu Yagu]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

A BIT of RPG elements? You may not know it, but the biggest element of a RPG is the story, not the inventory system. In that regard, as well as Side Questing ( loyalty missions ) and Exploration ME2 is clearly one of the best RPG games of all time.

Actually the biggest element of an RPG is the Role you play and interactions between yourself and other characters. The story is secondary to these things. My point was simply that the ability to build your character and craft it in your own way has been limited by the lack of loot.

[Babu Yagu]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Learn to read before you learn to write.

How about you do the same, seeing as I was replying to another person.

You didn't quote anyone else so your reply was directed at the the main thread question. Where has all the LOOT gone ?

Learn to reply too.

[jack3auer]

so how do we move forward with ME3 then. i would welcome a return to customizing armour and more available options with weapons (though these might filter in to ME2 with cerberus) but i dont want to have to start converting "ablative coating VII" etc into omni-gel again.

[Babu Yagu]

Darkhour wrote...

Babu Yagu wrote...

Where is all the LOOT. I used to grind ME1 for days to get the best loot. It wasn't necissary to beat the game but it was a luxury. An extra target to set yourself. Searched for the Heavy Collossus armour for months before i found it. Haven't gone back to ME2 anywhere near as much as ME1.
Please bring back the LOOT for ME3.

I don't exactly know why, but I have an uncontrollable urge to smack you. Good thing this is the internet.

Good thing indeed. But of course if we were face to face i'm pretty sure you would feel the same urge.

[Atheist Peace]

Personally i prefer Mass effect without loot. My main problem with loot heavy games is that the loots only real purpose seems to be to make the game significantly easier, which sucks the fun out of the game for me. Inventory systems have had their day in my opinion and i am not sorry to see them go in Mass effect.



The upgrade/customisation system in ME2 is quite good but i would prefer that it was a bit deeper. Ideally i would like similiar weapon customisation to ME1 without the hassle of picking up hundreds of weapon mods. ME2's research terminal work's great and i fully expect it to be improved upon for ME3.

[Shadowwot]

I prefer the ME2 Inventory/Loot system over ME1.

[Killian Kalthorne]

See, I wanted an improvement, not removal. Improving the loot system from ME1 would have been nice. Removing it like ME2 did is not.



I would give ME2 a 7.5 out of 10. ME1 was a solid 8, with Dragon Age being at 9.

[Stinkface27]

I see this has quickly degenerated to the "omg it's not an RPG if there is no inventory and stats!!!1" argument again =(

[TJSolo]

With people like you actually saying it; yes.

The topic is just about loot and the lower number in ME2.



Don't attach negative connotations to the word loot.

For the sake of this thread lets just use loot and items interchangeably.

[CaptainZaysh]

I much prefer the newer system. I think it would have been close to perfect if the upgrades resulted in modified appearances for your weapons - new scopes, stocks, grips, mags etc. But I felt much closer to my trusty M8 Avenger than I ever did to my HMWA VII.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

wowpwnslol wrote...

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

RPG's do not mean loot.

Fallout 3, and Final Fantasy, are not Mass Effect, and Mass Effect is not anyone of them.

Loot does not make an RPG, controlling a character to fit a role is what an RPG is mainly about.

Your sir, kindly, are wrong.

Wow... Can anyone please tell me this guy is just trolling? I mean, nobody can be this retarded and still have access to internet.

lol, what?

[AlexDSR]

To my humble opinion this game is not a loot fest and im glad for it.

I like realism and an inventory would ruin it. A man should carry as many items a man could carry.

The basic need of loot generally is to get better equipment in order to progress through the game. I think everybody can finish it with the very first gear you get in the game (+upgrades).

Of course as i said in the beginning this is just my opinion others might think otherwise and i respect it.

[Phaedra Sanguine]

YEA I WANT MASS DIABLO EFFECT!

[MagicalSarai]

I found the loot and menus annoying. The only reason I searched for armor in ME1 was for the color... in ME2 they let me design my own armor! I was sold! Now all I ask for is more DLC for armor pieces and designs so that I can feel all fashionista like... oh! and more casual outfits. You should have been able to buy more casual outfits on the citadel or illium... like a lengerie outfit for femshep so you didn't look all... uncomfortable during the final LI scene. Sigh... all I play these games for is the conversations and character development. *fingers crossed for a mass effect game hybriding with heavy rain*

[Daeion]

Ah yes, another topic that I will argue all day long but is completely pointless to argue.  There apparently is no happy middle ground here.  You have those who feel loot and an inventory system add a lot to the game, those that feel it detracts from the game, and apparently neither side is willing to compromise.  This seems to be a common theme with ME2.  Instead of making small tweeks that could have kept both sides happy, BW went from one extream to the other.  So those who hated the system in ME now have what they want and are unwilling to compromise at all.

To me the simple solution would have been to get rid of about 50% of the manufacturers in a given level range, decrease drop rates, and decrease overall inventory size.  This way you end up with a system where you aren't getting flooded with through away items, aren't at the omnigel cap at all times, and you aren't walking around with 40 weapons, 50 mods, and 10 sets of armor.  Add in better filters so that same items stack, like items are grouped,  when looking at armor for shep I'm not seeing krogan armor, auto break dow, autoe equip, and auto sell buttons and I think you ahve a streamlined system where both sides can be happy.  Those who enjoy finding items still find them and those who don't want tot ake the time to pick through things can hit a few buttons like they can with auto level and bam, there you go.

I have to say, I'm a little tired of the whole everyone ended up in Colossus X and Specter X weapons.  Yes you did end up there, but it took about 3 play throughs and a max lvl char to do that.  You didn't start with it and the items I used were probably different then the items you used while building to that.