231 réponses à ce sujet

[mispelinsuks]

I would like a better selection of gear but in ME1 it was to much. Mostly because you would hit the money cap fairly quickly. Although I did like being rich later in the game something ME2 does not have . In ME2 I should have been able to make some decent money selling extra resources...if only because '' exploring '' a planet for resources was so incredibly boring . I think Bioware wil find a good balance for ME3, I mean its got to be hard to please everyone just look at all the arguments.. oh '' debates '' you read continuously in these game forums. Bioware will find a balance but some of us will still complain it must be maddening.

[Zanallen]

Murmillos wrote...

See.. another thing which many of us see as an "easy" fix - was discarded and junked.  Planet scanning would have been fine if the only reason for it was to find missions to go down on.

Ramp up the environments a bit.. take out the tedious mountain climbing aspect (or add a rear booster option - to power up the hills) and horrible Mako complaints are gone.

Heck, and instead of maybe each world being an open square mile of land.. they could have make it a long rectangle for a few of them.  (Halo: Blood Glutch.. but much much longer in length) Some point A to B with a few interesting things in between.  Or maybe even land on an island, like 'Halo:The Silent Cartographer'.

Again.. this should be its own topic.. but the point remains - too many "fixes" were not fixed but instead of junked.

(gack I'm bad on the grammar tonight)

Off topic, but planet scanning didn't replace the MAKO. Planet scanning replaced surveying. The MAKO was replaced by the Hammerhead; however, it wasn't finished in time for the release of the game.

[slyguy07]

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

slyguy07 wrote...

BlightWalker wrote...

What most of the 'pro-loot' people are forgetting is that if you re-introduce items like Colossus X armor it would throw the balance of the combat system out of the window. It didn't matter much in ME1 because at high levels the game consisted of standing in the middle of the room and holding down the fire button or just stunlocking every single enemy with biotics but it would suck ME2.

I'm sorry, but the combat system is anything but balanced. Biotics are useless above veteran aside from a few select powers and there are only 2 tech powers worth a crap. I'm sorry, but balance is non existent. The best way to kill is with guns in ME2. Once you remove an enemy's armor, shields, or barrier why bother blowing the cooldown time to use a power like throw or neural shock? Headshots trump those with ammo powers.

The tech and biotic powers leave much to be desired unless you are a vanguard. The inventory leaves just as much to be desired. Casual people may like it, but it sucks. Buying a gun is something you should be able to do. Or armor. You just shouldn't be spammed with loot like in ME1. Really there shouldn't be but 5-10 meaningful items per weapon class aside from HW. Throw in ammo upgrades and remove them as stupid powers (immersion breaker) and allow them to be customized in appearance as well as the armor for you and your squad and I will be happy. I imagine a lot of other people, too, given the way my poll is going right now.

Uh, no.

slyguy07 wrote...


My friend that was a very productive reply for a quickly degenerating thread. My thanks. You have some good ideas...I wished that the high end armors had separate strengths for using them. They did actually, but it was negligible. Armax Arsenal's Predator line trumped everything in shields. Kassa Fabrication's Colossus line trumped everything in damage protection. ME3 needs to combine the customizable N7 armor aspect of ME2 with ME1's upgrade system to armor and weapons.  Seriously there was nowhere near enough to satisfy those who enjoy customizing their avatar to make them their own in ME2.

Basically in ME3 I think there should be about 8ish armors and all of them have customizable components. However seeing as this is the last game I think they should take the initiative to do something else that would make the game more immersive. Seeing as Shepard will lead the fight he will certainly have the support of the galaxy at some point and say certain manufacturers offer to make our hero top of the line components for our hero. Maybe even experimental tech. I don't know if they will bother, but having the manufacturers actually work to help you could be interesting if done right. Then again if they go about the wrong way it could be a terrible idea.

Just a thought.

Yes! What I've been saying for awhile! I love this idea, the strenghts of both games!

I still disagree about biotics. On hardcore or higher that is. Warp, Charge, Singularity are all that are worth a poop. Seriously. Overload and Incinerate. That's it for tech. Guns are still the best way to kill people after they drop to the health bar. I mean take throw for instance. It's useless. Why bother using it after getting to the health bar when a few headshots will do? It seems like BW made only certain strategies possible using biotics perhaps due to the fact they were somewhat too powerful in ME1. Still it needs an overhaul. I really dislike shields/armor/barrier blocking the effects of a throw or singularity. Just makes Shepard feel so weak. I miss him/her feeling badass like in ME1.

[Poison_Berrie]

mispelinsuks wrote...
I would like a better selection of gear but in ME1 it was to much. Mostly because you would hit the money cap fairly quickly. Although I did like being rich later in the game something ME2 does not have . In ME2 I should have been able to make some decent money selling extra resources...if only because '' exploring '' a planet for resources was so incredibly boring . I think Bioware wil find a good balance for ME3, I mean its got to be hard to please everyone just look at all the arguments.. oh '' debates '' you read continuously in these game forums. Bioware will find a balance but some of us will still complain it must be maddening.

It's the slippery slope of a loot system. I actually liked that my money wasn't unlimited after the first few missions. An economy especially in a singleplayer game is hard to do right. 
Having more money available also means you need more money sinks to not get a part of ME1 loot problematics back.

@slyguy07: Some people will go for the obvious others get creative and use all powers well. 
It's also hard to balance that. Biotics were pretty godlike in ME 1 and there is the defenses system as well. 
There's definitely some tweaking required in the skill department, though.

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 10 mars 2010 - 10:35 .

[TJSolo]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

mispelinsuks wrote...

I would like a better selection of gear but in ME1 it was to much. Mostly because you would hit the money cap fairly quickly. Although I did like being rich later in the game something ME2 does not have . In ME2 I should have been able to make some decent money selling extra resources...if only because '' exploring '' a planet for resources was so incredibly boring . I think Bioware wil find a good balance for ME3, I mean its got to be hard to please everyone just look at all the arguments.. oh '' debates '' you read continuously in these game forums. Bioware will find a balance but some of us will still complain it must be maddening.

It's the slippery slope of a loot system. I actually liked that my money wasn't unlimited after the first few missions. An economy especially in a singleplayer game is hard to do right. 
Having more money available also means you need more money sinks to not get a part of ME1 loot problematics back.

Money was not unlimited after the first few missions in ME1, you're just exagerating.
Having an economy adds to the depth of a game.
ME2 has no economy because all the credits you can earn have already been predetermined my how many hackable items that are in the game. 
Wanting some sort of economy is not a slippery slope and does not automatically put us back in the loot deluge of ME1.
BW has done games that handled loot and game economy well. Kotor and DAO are the ones I have played; low drop rates with a mix of unique weapons to vendor trash.

I played DAO after I played ME2 and find it curious that BW went the direction of 0 loot when DAO seems to get the mix right.

[Shotokanguy]

I'm sorry, I didn't read any of this thread except the first post. I just had to say it made me laugh at the idea of "grinding for loot" in the first Mass Effect. I did that once, actually...for about 15 minutes. Waste of time, really.

[Daeion]

Shotokanguy wrote...

I'm sorry, I didn't read any of this thread except the first post. I just had to say it made me laugh at the idea of "grinding for loot" in the first Mass Effect. I did that once, actually...for about 15 minutes. Waste of time, really.

Someone tell me how you grind for loot in ME, I never came across any place with respawning mobs.

[Jaysonie]

TJSolo wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...

mispelinsuks wrote...

I would like a better selection of gear but in ME1 it was to much. Mostly because you would hit the money cap fairly quickly. Although I did like being rich later in the game something ME2 does not have . In ME2 I should have been able to make some decent money selling extra resources...if only because '' exploring '' a planet for resources was so incredibly boring . I think Bioware wil find a good balance for ME3, I mean its got to be hard to please everyone just look at all the arguments.. oh '' debates '' you read continuously in these game forums. Bioware will find a balance but some of us will still complain it must be maddening.

It's the slippery slope of a loot system. I actually liked that my money wasn't unlimited after the first few missions. An economy especially in a singleplayer game is hard to do right. 
Having more money available also means you need more money sinks to not get a part of ME1 loot problematics back.

Money was not unlimited after the first few missions in ME1, you're just exagerating.
Having an economy adds to the depth of a game.
ME2 has no economy because all the credits you can earn have already been predetermined my how many hackable items that are in the game. 
Wanting some sort of economy is not a slippery slope and does not automatically put us back in the loot deluge of ME1.
BW has done games that handled loot and game economy well. Kotor and DAO are the ones I have played; low drop rates with a mix of unique weapons to vendor trash.

I played DAO after I played ME2 and find it curious that BW went the direction of 0 loot when DAO seems to get the mix right.

Nope, there was way to much loot for such a limited inventory. You could have a max of 150 items(i think, somewhere around there), you ran out of room half way threw the game.

[sedrikhcain]

slyguy07 wrote...


I still disagree about biotics. On hardcore or higher that is. Warp, Charge, Singularity are all that are worth a poop. Seriously. Overload and Incinerate. That's it for tech. Guns are still the best way to kill people after they drop to the health bar. I mean take throw for instance. It's useless. Why bother using it after getting to the health bar when a few headshots will do? It seems like BW made only certain strategies possible using biotics perhaps due to the fact they were somewhat too powerful in ME1. Still it needs an overhaul. I really dislike shields/armor/barrier blocking the effects of a throw or singularity. Just makes Shepard feel so weak. I miss him/her feeling badass like in ME1.

Warp, charge and singularity are 3 distinct powers that are all useful on Hardcore and insanity, so is shockwave. That last one is particularly good for crowd control. You only have to strip one enemy's defenses to get a hit on several.

I'm not arguing that there aren't things you can do that will deal out more damage than these (although charge's applications are unique) but biotics are not useless. If you want to play with a focus on them, you can quite successfully do it. I've taken jack and miranda out on Hardcore missions together and done quite well.

[Daeion]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

mispelinsuks wrote...
I would like a better selection of gear but in ME1 it was to much. Mostly because you would hit the money cap fairly quickly. Although I did like being rich later in the game something ME2 does not have . In ME2 I should have been able to make some decent money selling extra resources...if only because '' exploring '' a planet for resources was so incredibly boring . I think Bioware wil find a good balance for ME3, I mean its got to be hard to please everyone just look at all the arguments.. oh '' debates '' you read continuously in these game forums. Bioware will find a balance but some of us will still complain it must be maddening.

It's the slippery slope of a loot system. I actually liked that my money wasn't unlimited after the first few missions. An economy especially in a singleplayer game is hard to do right. 
Having more money available also means you need more money sinks to not get a part of ME1 loot problematics back.

All BW needs to do is add actual money sinks and bam, people aren't walking around with millions of credits.  Heck, why not just make special ammo, i.e. disrupter ammo something that you buy and only have a limited number of?  I'm not a fan of the ammo system in ME but might as well just go all the way.

[Daeion]

Jaysonie wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...

mispelinsuks wrote...

I would like a better selection of gear but in ME1 it was to much. Mostly because you would hit the money cap fairly quickly. Although I did like being rich later in the game something ME2 does not have . In ME2 I should have been able to make some decent money selling extra resources...if only because '' exploring '' a planet for resources was so incredibly boring . I think Bioware wil find a good balance for ME3, I mean its got to be hard to please everyone just look at all the arguments.. oh '' debates '' you read continuously in these game forums. Bioware will find a balance but some of us will still complain it must be maddening.

It's the slippery slope of a loot system. I actually liked that my money wasn't unlimited after the first few missions. An economy especially in a singleplayer game is hard to do right. 
Having more money available also means you need more money sinks to not get a part of ME1 loot problematics back.

Money was not unlimited after the first few missions in ME1, you're just exagerating.
Having an economy adds to the depth of a game.
ME2 has no economy because all the credits you can earn have already been predetermined my how many hackable items that are in the game. 
Wanting some sort of economy is not a slippery slope and does not automatically put us back in the loot deluge of ME1.
BW has done games that handled loot and game economy well. Kotor and DAO are the ones I have played; low drop rates with a mix of unique weapons to vendor trash.

I played DAO after I played ME2 and find it curious that BW went the direction of 0 loot when DAO seems to get the mix right.

Nope, there was way to much loot for such a limited inventory. You could have a max of 150 items(i think, somewhere around there), you ran out of room half way threw the game.

learn to manage your inventory?  It's not hard, if you or a party member aren't going to carry something, sell it or just get rid of it.  It's supposed to be a real world, you are going to come across more things then you can carry.

[TJSolo]

Daeion wrote...

Shotokanguy wrote...

I'm sorry, I didn't read any of this thread except the first post. I just had to say it made me laugh at the idea of "grinding for loot" in the first Mass Effect. I did that once, actually...for about 15 minutes. Waste of time, really.

Someone tell me how you grind for loot in ME, I never came across any place with respawning mobs.

There really is not much grinding involved as the grind for gear was only used for ONE armor.
You would have to only buy a few of the premiere licenses for the store on the Normandy.
Once you hit 36+  then you would have to dock the Normandy, Leave the dock, and save at the store then check the store for Col gear.
If the Col gear was not there just reload until it was.

All of that "grind" is moot since in BDtS Col armor is automatically in stock.

The "grinding for loot" in ME1 arguement is vastly misleading.

[sedrikhcain]

Daeion wrote...


learn to manage your inventory?  It's not hard, if you or a party member aren't going to carry something, sell it or just get rid of it.  It's supposed to be a real world, you are going to come across more things then you can carry.

The trouble with Mass Effect wasn't lack of room to carry everything, IMO. The problem was that after about two thirds of the way through one playthrough, you were very close maxing out your weapons and armor and you also had more than enough of every single different kind of ammo and upgrade. Very few new items of value popped up after that. You also had plenty of credits. So you just started omnigelling everything and pretty soon that was maxed out as well, because there are no tough decisions when you've 15 katana Vs laying around that you haven't used sinice Therum and you've already got fully upgraded spectre gear.

There was no meaningful limit on what you could carry. It was a very arbitrary 150-item cap that meant nothing in terms of forcing you to make a decision about how you upgrade your gear.

ME1's inventory/loot system was clearly broken by any sensible analysis of it. Argue to tweak it, completely overhaul it, scrap it, whatever. I can get behind any of those campaigns if done right but please don't try to suggest that ME1's system was a good one for anybody except fans of endless, pointless scavenging and the number 150.

[Daeion]

TJSolo wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Shotokanguy wrote...

I'm sorry, I didn't read any of this thread except the first post. I just had to say it made me laugh at the idea of "grinding for loot" in the first Mass Effect. I did that once, actually...for about 15 minutes. Waste of time, really.

Someone tell me how you grind for loot in ME, I never came across any place with respawning mobs.

There really is not much grinding involved as the grind for gear was only used for ONE armor.
You would have to only buy a few of the premiere licenses for the store on the Normandy.
Once you hit 36+  then you would have to dock the Normandy, Leave the dock, and save at the store then check the store for Col gear.
If the Col gear was not there just reload until it was.

All of that "grind" is moot since in BDtS Col armor is automatically in stock.

The "grinding for loot" in ME1 arguement is vastly misleading.

I guess that's lame but I never did that and fail to see why people felt the need to.

[Daeion]

sedrikhcain wrote...

Daeion wrote...


learn to manage your inventory?  It's not hard, if you or a party member aren't going to carry something, sell it or just get rid of it.  It's supposed to be a real world, you are going to come across more things then you can carry.

The trouble with Mass Effect wasn't lack of room to carry everything, IMO. The problem was that after about two thirds of the way through one playthrough, you were very close maxing out your weapons and armor and you also had more than enough of every single different kind of ammo and upgrade. Very few new items of value popped up after that. You also had plenty of credits. So you just started omnigelling everything and pretty soon that was maxed out as well, because there are no tough decisions when you've 15 katana Vs laying around that you haven't used sinice Therum and you've already got fully upgraded spectre gear.

There was no meaningful limit on what you could carry. It was a very arbitrary 150-item cap that meant nothing in terms of forcing you to make a decision about how you upgrade your gear.

ME1's inventory/loot system was clearly broken by any sensible analysis of it. Argue to tweak it, completely overhaul it, scrap it, whatever. I can get behind any of those campaigns if done right but please don't try to suggest that ME1's system was a good one for anybody except fans of endless, pointless scavenging and the number 150.

My comment was in regards to the persons comment about the DA:O inventory system.  I have already said many a time that the ME system was on crack and there were far too many items and how to fix it, look back a couple pages and you'll see my suggestions.

I grabbed it from page 7:
To me the simple solution would have been to get rid of about 50% of the manufacturers in a given level range, decrease drop rates, and decrease overall inventory size.  This way you end up with a system
where you aren't getting flooded with throw away items, aren't at the omnigel cap at all times, and you aren't walking around with 40 weapons, 50 mods, and 10 sets of armor.  Add in better filters so that same items stack, like items are grouped,  when looking at armor for shep I'm not seeing krogan armor, auto break dow, autoe equip, and auto sell buttons and I think you have a streamlined system where both sides can be happy.  Those who enjoy finding items still find them and those who don't want to take the time to pick through things can hit a few buttons like they can with auto level and bam, there you go.

Modifié par Daeion, 10 mars 2010 - 11:40 .

[sedrikhcain]

Daeion wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

Daeion wrote...


learn to manage your inventory?  It's not hard, if you or a party member aren't going to carry something, sell it or just get rid of it.  It's supposed to be a real world, you are going to come across more things then you can carry.

The trouble with Mass Effect wasn't lack of room to carry everything, IMO. The problem was that after about two thirds of the way through one playthrough, you were very close maxing out your weapons and armor and you also had more than enough of every single different kind of ammo and upgrade. Very few new items of value popped up after that. You also had plenty of credits. So you just started omnigelling everything and pretty soon that was maxed out as well, because there are no tough decisions when you've 15 katana Vs laying around that you haven't used sinice Therum and you've already got fully upgraded spectre gear.

There was no meaningful limit on what you could carry. It was a very arbitrary 150-item cap that meant nothing in terms of forcing you to make a decision about how you upgrade your gear.

ME1's inventory/loot system was clearly broken by any sensible analysis of it. Argue to tweak it, completely overhaul it, scrap it, whatever. I can get behind any of those campaigns if done right but please don't try to suggest that ME1's system was a good one for anybody except fans of endless, pointless scavenging and the number 150.

My comment was in regards to the persons comment about the DA:O inventory system.  I have already said many a time that the ME system was on crack and there were far too many items and how to fix it, look back a couple pages and you'll see my suggestions.

I grabbed it from page 7:
To me the simple solution would have been to get rid of about 50% of the manufacturers in a given level range, decrease drop rates, and decrease overall inventory size.  This way you end up with a system
where you aren't getting flooded with throw away items, aren't at the omnigel cap at all times, and you aren't walking around with 40 weapons, 50 mods, and 10 sets of armor.  Add in better filters so that same items stack, like items are grouped,  when looking at armor for shep I'm not seeing krogan armor, auto break dow, autoe equip, and auto sell buttons and I think you have a streamlined system where both sides can be happy.  Those who enjoy finding items still find them and those who don't want to take the time to pick through things can hit a few buttons like they can with auto level and bam, there you go.

Whoops! Well, in that case, we agree about ME 1 -- but thanks for the opportunity to rant.

[Qwepir]

I hated the loot. Once I got Rosenkov tier X weapons, Savant omni-tools/amps and Colossus armor for the whole squad, I was just swimming in omni-gel from all the obsolete weapons and equipment. I'm glad the loot is gone.

[Daeion]

Qwepir wrote...
I hated the loot. Once I got Rosenkov tier X weapons, Savant omni-tools/amps and Colossus armor for the whole squad, I was just swimming in omni-gel from all the obsolete weapons and equipment. I'm glad the loot is gone.

And you started the game with all of that right?  Oh wait no you didn't, you had to build up to it.  Sure item drops become pointless once you have the top gear, but it takes you 2-3 play throughs to equip everyone like that.  It gave you a reason to do multiple play throughs of the game with the same char, something that is lacking in ME2.

Modifié par Daeion, 11 mars 2010 - 12:33 .

[Qwepir]

I got all that stuff in one playthrough, dude. Slow down and do other missions and you can be at level 50 before Virmire.

[TJSolo]

Qwepir wrote...

I hated the loot. Once I got Rosenkov
tier X weapons, Savant omni-tools/amps and Colossus armor for the whole
squad, I was just swimming in omni-gel from all the obsolete weapons
and equipment. I'm glad the loot is gone.

Luck? Cause I have a bunch of playthroughs for ME1 before BDtS and never grinded for Col gear.
On my best save I have Colossus X for Wrex, Tali, and Garrus but never found a human light/medium drop.

Doing a lot of the side quests got you more prepared for the end content of ME1 but level50 before Vimire? ok sure.

What many are saying is that the loot progression in ME1 was interesting and they liked it.
The problem was that loot just flooded in at times and became somewhat of a bother to handle.

Instead of addressing the loot flood issue; ala Dragon Age. ME2 goes the route of removing it and placing the progression on rails by just using stat upgrades.

So within the same series players went from having an over abundance of loot to having almost nil.
A middle ground should be reached so that the loot haters can run around ignoring the existance of loot and looters people able to enjoy having a higher level of customization and selection.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Honestly I don't think anyone would avoid the loot.

[Jaysonie]

TJSolo wrote...

Qwepir wrote...

I hated the loot. Once I got Rosenkov
tier X weapons, Savant omni-tools/amps and Colossus armor for the whole
squad, I was just swimming in omni-gel from all the obsolete weapons
and equipment. I'm glad the loot is gone.

Luck? Cause I have a bunch of playthroughs for ME1 before BDtS and never grinded for Col gear.
On my best save I have Colossus X for Wrex, Tali, and Garrus but never found a human light/medium drop.

Doing a lot of the side quests got you more prepared for the end content of ME1 but level50 before Vimire? ok sure.

What many are saying is that the loot progression in ME1 was interesting and they liked it.
The problem was that loot just flooded in at times and became somewhat of a bother to handle.

Instead of addressing the loot flood issue; ala Dragon Age. ME2 goes the route of removing it and placing the progression on rails by just using stat upgrades.

So within the same series players went from having an over abundance of loot to having almost nil.
A middle ground should be reached so that the loot haters can run around ignoring the existance of loot and looters people able to enjoy having a higher level of customization and selection.

I made it to level 50 on feros, its not that hard. Just kill everything on foot.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Yeah, I maxed out 50 on one playthrough playing on foot. I'd get like 3000 exp for killing a Thres-Maw.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

slimgrin wrote...

I like lots of loot in my games a well, but I don't want the micro-differentiated type of loot in ME1.

In modern warfare, you can pick up guns from enemies that are specialized in some ways. for example you might find a RPD with a scope, or another one with a Grip attachment.

Something like that would certainly break up mononitny (sp) of having the same weapons, and allow for more to be placed on the field at the same time.