427 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaiser Shepard]

Akeashar wrote...

Ulicus wrote...


Uh, retcon that that Cerberus WAS behind Akuze?  The only retcon would be that they weren't. And since in ME1 Toombs tells us that he escaped from a Cerberus facility, it's not really a very long line you have to draw. I mean, there's being an apologist and then there's ignoring the information you're given. (EDIT:  Though, in fairness, I think you're only given the Cerberus line from Toombs if you've already finished the Hades Dogs quest)

Interrrresting.  If there is a particular combination of quests that causes Toombs to say it was Cerberus, then I withdraw my remark about Cerberus not being involved on Akuze.  At least on all my playthroughs he had never mentioned Cerberus, just saying it was an Alliance facility and Alliance scientists that were torturing him.

... I don't think I'll start another playthrough just to test that though.  I think my wife or roomie would kill me after how much ME1 I put them through in January. XD

You need to finish Admiral Kohaku's questline before doing that particular mission.

[Terraneaux]

Alexandus wrote...
They have very clear goals: The Advancement and Survival of Humanity.

The subtext is that it's really the Advancement and Survival of TIM.  If they actually cared about humanity surviving, they would want a strong, unified, galactic society capable of fending off the Reapers, and they don't put any effort into making that happen.  

[CC-Tron]

Alexandus wrote...

anmiro wrote...

 No. Cerberus has the capability to do anything they want and have no codes of conduct to guide their actions. They have and will kill as many innocent people as they want to achieve their goals. They are glorified terrorists. Just because the Illusive Man does not want to be wiped out by the Reapers does not make him a good guy or excuse him for his past crimes. Cerberus is nothing more than the enemy of Shepard's enemy. And if we don't have an opportunity to destroy Cerberus in ME3, I will be very disappointed.

*chuckles* Terrorists have no other goal than...to inspire terror! Their title is NOT a misnomer, by any means.

Cerberus. Is. Not. A. Terrorist. Organization.

They have very clear goals: The Advancement and Survival of Humanity.

Everything they do is an attempt to further that goal. Not to spread terror.

If you are looking for a Terrorist group, look no further than the Batarians.

The Batarians are a race, not a terrorist group.  Batarian terrorists are though.

[Terraneaux]

Shandepared wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

I'd be more inclined to trust TIM if a surprisingly high percentage of his ops didn't end catastrophically.

Actually you do make a good point and I used to attack Cerberus rather passionately for this. However after playing ME2 I've changed my opinion somewhat. Cerberus has met with many disasters largely because they undertake very dangerous work. They learn from it though. Even the loss of the science team on the derelict Reaper will teach them something; as is noted in TIM's report.

The success of, say, the Collector Ship mission, cannot be attributed to anything besides Shepard's luck and skill.  TIM was trying his hardest to get that mission to fail, it seems.  

[SerenityN0w]

Terraneaux wrote...

Alexandus wrote...
They have very clear goals: The Advancement and Survival of Humanity.

The subtext is that it's really the Advancement and Survival of TIM.  If they actually cared about humanity surviving, they would want a strong, unified, galactic society capable of fending off the Reapers, and they don't put any effort into making that happen.  

If you believe that than tell me why did Tim give Shepard the freedom to make his own decisions and not implement him with a control chip like Miranda suggested? Seeing as how Shepard can really screw Cerberus over I don't know how brining him back without a way to completely control him advances Tim at all. On the other hand it does advance humanity's goals to destroy the reaper threat which is exactly what he claims he is trying to do throughout the entire game.

[Notho]

No.



-Exposing colonists to Thorian Spores

-Injecting marines with thresher maw venom

-Murdered Admiral Kohoku (spelling?)

-Tried to bring back the rachni as an army under their control

-Experimented on biotic children



These are the ones off the top of my head. I only worked for them to save those colonies and defeat the Collectors. Once that was done, my obligation for them saving my life was over.

[SerenityN0w]

Terraneaux wrote...

The success of, say, the Collector Ship mission, cannot be attributed to anything besides Shepard's luck and skill.  TIM was trying his hardest to get that mission to fail, it seems.  

Why would the Illusive man spend 4 billion credits to bring Shepard back and then even more to give him the resources needed to take on the Collectors if his plan was to get Shepard killed on the Collector ship. If he wanted Shepard's body in the hands of the Collectors he could have sold his body back to the shadow broker after Liara gave it to him.

[Terraneaux]

SerenityN0w wrote...
If you believe that than tell me why did Tim give Shepard the freedom to make his own decisions and not implement him with a control chip like Miranda suggested? Seeing as how Shepard can really screw Cerberus over I don't know how brining him back without a way to completely control him advances Tim at all. On the other hand it does advance humanity's goals to destroy the reaper threat which is exactly what he claims he is trying to do throughout the entire game.

There's actually no reason to, but for the sake of the game I think the writers nixed the control chip idea.  Your character jumps when TIM says jump anyway, so it's not like it was really necessary.  I think EDI going rogue probably greatly curtailed his ability to control Shep and the mission; it's likely there was some sort of failsafe that he would have engaged if Shep didn't comply.  

As far as his efficacy at destroying the reaper threat, well, it would be a lot easier if the rest of the galaxy was trying to take them down too, but TIM doesn't show anybodyt this magic information he has that convinces him that the reapers are real, or even have any of his contacts in the Alliance make it happen.  He has an incredible amount of influence when he wants to, but he also has a pathological need to keep everyone else in the dark, I've noticed.  It's more important to him that he control information than the rest of the galaxy know about what threatens them.  

[Kaiser Shepard]

Don't suppose The Angry One will simply waltz into this topic with that awesome TIM pic she made.

[Terraneaux]

SerenityN0w wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

The success of, say, the Collector Ship mission, cannot be attributed to anything besides Shepard's luck and skill.  TIM was trying his hardest to get that mission to fail, it seems.  

Why would the Illusive man spend 4 billion credits to bring Shepard back and then even more to give him the resources needed to take on the Collectors if his plan was to get Shepard killed on the Collector ship. If he wanted Shepard's body in the hands of the Collectors he could have sold his body back to the shadow broker after Liara gave it to him.

I don't know why TIM didn't give Shep better information, the same reason I don't know why he commits such irresponsible ****ups with his other ops.  But it all points to a pattern of megalomania, incompetence, and probably some sort of messiah complex.  He's not the kind of person you can trust with that kind of power.  

[Alexandus]

Notho wrote...

No.

-Exposing colonists to Thorian Spores
-Injecting marines with thresher maw venom
-Murdered Admiral Kohoku (spelling?)
-Tried to bring back the rachni as an army under their control
-Experimented on biotic children

These are the ones off the top of my head. I only worked for them to save those colonies and defeat the Collectors. Once that was done, my obligation for them saving my life was over.

All done in the name of advancement. 

Has it not occured to you that your ancestors were survivors, and that the survival itself sometimes involved savage decisions, a kind of wanton brutality which civilized humankind works very hard to surpress.

What price would you pay for that suppression? Would you accept your own extinction?

[Terraneaux]

Shandepared wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

The subtext is that it's really the Advancement and Survival of TIM.  If they actually cared about humanity surviving, they would want a strong, unified, galactic society capable of fending off the Reapers, and they don't put any effort into making that happen.  

Yes they do. TIM is quite concerned about the political instability amongst the Admiralty Board on the Migrant Fleet specifically becase he knows we'll need them to fight the war. He also notes if you reprogram the heretic geth that they'll be useful allies against the Reapers. Of-course he also doubts that long-term cooperation will be viable. 

TIM doesn't have problems with assassinating human military personnel to preserve his own skin and power, however, not exactly the kind of behavior you'd expect from a self-described 'savior of humanity.'

[MassAffected]

**** Cerberus and **** The Illusive Man...that is all.

I'm quoting from memory here, but Shepard tells TiM "I won't let fear compromise who I am". While Cerberus may be doing "good" work for Humanity's "benefit" they go about it in despicable ways.

Modifié par MassAffected, 11 mars 2010 - 12:26 .

[Terraneaux]

Alexandus wrote...
All done in the name of advancement. 

Has it not occured to you that your ancestors were survivors, and that the survival itself sometimes involved savage decisions, a kind of wanton brutality which civilized humankind works very hard to surpress.

What price would you pay for that suppression? Would you accept your own extinction?

The behavior you're talking about is basically antisocial behavior, which has been selected against because people in groups are stronger than individuals.  By the same token, the Council races, united, are stronger than anyone going it alone; TIM seems to be in denial of this.  

[jklinders]

With as many screw ups as Cerberus has had, I am rather amazed that the perfect circle of perfect businessmen that fund Cerberus have not pulled the plug on TIM. Unless of coarse he is not telling them everything either in which case those business people are idiots for funding this man in the dark.

[Terraneaux]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I thought he didn't reveal the truth to Shepard out of fear of tipping off the Collectors.  Either through communications with Shepard or Shepard's knowledge of it somehow leaking.

I know he said that, but the idea of it holds no water whatsoever.  If someone walks into an ambush like that without foreknowledge, they're probably going to die.  If TIM didn't have his head up his ass, he would have realized that.  TIM merely wants to have a stranglehold on information; it's more important for him to have that then to safeguard the galaxy.  

[Vaenier]

To all the people who hate Cerberus: To really get back at the evil TIM, you should destroy his latest project. It is an abomination to all of life. You shouldnt allow him to experiment on helpless victims and profit from it. Tell TIM to shove it and...



Kill yourself.