427 réponses à ce sujet

[Terraneaux]

Shandepared wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

TIM doesn't have problems with assassinating human military personnel to preserve his own skin and power, however, not exactly the kind of behavior you'd expect from a self-described 'savior of humanity.'

How does that have any bearing on his desire to advance humanity? Cerberus is humanity's greatest weapon and we can't afford to have (sadly) misguided marines expose it. All that would do is further the interests of our rivals.

If what Cerberus was doing was so necessary and good, then why did Kahoku have to be killed and couldn't be persuaded?  

[Terraneaux]

Shandepared wrote...

Shepard isn't just anybody and TIM had EDI in place as backup.

Yeah, except Shepard has failed before.  Against the Collectors, interestingly enough.  TIM's nothing short of retarded when it comes to mission planning; he doesn't even have a good excuse as to how he didn't know it's a trap.  It's like he's baiting Shepard to betray him.  

[DanaScu]

Soverain wrote...

i am leaning towards cerberus, because they did what no one else did, recongnise the reaper threat, bring back cerberus, advance humanity, cerberus has not done anything untrustworthy, although the llusion did go behind shepards back and lured him to the collector ship.

how ever cerberus has an untrustworthy history, the experiment on the children, but then the illusive man didnt know about that at the time, in cerburus history cerberus went to far with some things, that maybe changing for the sake of humanity.

Don't forget, TIM also leaked the information to the Alliance that you were working for Cerberus now. That's why the Alliance sent Ash/Kaidan to Horizon. Oh, and the information that you are working for Cerberus also makes the Council consider charging you with treason.  Why wouldn't I trust TIM after he was so helpful? /sarcasm TIM sets the stage so none of your former associations like the Alliance or the Council will work with you because he broadcasts the information you're working with Cerberus. You have to depend on Cerberus because he's set you up to have no choice. I consider that to be "untrustworthy".

Remember the recordings on Pragia, in the Teltin facility? The scientists are worried that TIM is asking for reports.  The first one says "If he knew what we've done" and the second one replies "He won't find out. As long as we get results, he won't care.

He'd use their results, no matter how they were obtained. He is amoral, and ruthless. As long as his version of humanity is on top, the methods used to get there don't matter to him. Torture and murder are fine, as long as the end result is something he can use to "further the cause of humanity".

I don't buy that "rogue cell" line either. If all of the cells that my Shepard wiped out in ME went rogue, then TIM is an incompetent idiot who has no control whatsoever over any of his people. There was Kahoku's marines, Kahoku himself, the husks, and the rachni that wiped out the marine listening posts that I can remember off-hand.

No, none of my Shepards will ever consider trusting Cerberus.

[Terraneaux]

Shandepared wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...


If what Cerberus was doing was so necessary and good, then why did Kahoku have to be killed and couldn't be persuaded?  

He was probably an idealistic and stubborn. Reminds me of somebody.

It seems strange that TIM knew he would be unable to convince someone who had independent knowledge of his operations.  

[jklinders]

Vaenier wrote...

To all the people who hate Cerberus: To really get back at the evil TIM, you should destroy his latest project. It is an abomination to all of life. You shouldnt allow him to experiment on helpless victims and profit from it. Tell TIM to shove it and...

Kill yourself.

2 reasons.

1  I am not given the option in game:P

2 The collector base was his payoff for bringing Shepard back, way better to blow it up if I am doing it for spite alone. The fact that he is highly unlikely to control what is found there makes a good reason as well.

[Terraneaux]

Shandepared wrote...

Actually he did know it was a trap and the ambush against the Normandy SR1 was nothing like the ambush on the Collector ship. That was just a shoot-out. Again, it was risky, and TIM admits that. However I doubt you'd have had a better idea. He wanted the enemy overconfident so they'd screw up.

A better idea would have been to actually let Shepard, who was the field commander, know all the information necessary for him to make decisions.  Even a genius tactician is going to make improper decisions if he doesn't have all the information, like, say, that he is walking into a trap.  TIM almost lost the Normandy SR-2 to Reaper control; if that had happened he would have been figgety-****ed.  He took an extraordinary risk for no good reason.  Besides, what were the Collectors going to do if they figured out he knew it was a trap halfway through?  They were already powering up their systems to start some ****.  

[Terraneaux]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

That would make TIM short sited and stupid.  TIM is not stupid.

TIM is not as smart as he thinks he is.  He's just smart enough to be dangerously immoral.  

[Terraneaux]

Shandepared wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...


A better idea would have been to actually let Shepard, who was the field commander, know all the information necessary for him to make decisions.

Wrong, in transmitting his plans to Shepard he might have tipped the Collectors off.

Then don't transmit them.  Write it on a piece of paper and hand it to him.  Seriously.  It's not that hard.

[jklinders]

Shandepared wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...


A better idea would have been to actually let Shepard, who was the field commander, know all the information necessary for him to make decisions.

Wrong, in transmitting his plans to Shepard he might have tipped the Collectors off.

How may I ask. The type of comm unit Shep and TIM used cannot be hacked. Shep can only communicate with TIM on that thing through some kind of ME based techno magic. Chat with EDI in the Comm room for full details.

[Terraneaux]

jklinders wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...


A better idea would have been to actually let Shepard, who was the field commander, know all the information necessary for him to make decisions.

Wrong, in transmitting his plans to Shepard he might have tipped the Collectors off.

How may I ask. The type of comm unit Shep and TIM used cannot be hacked. Shep can only communicate with TIM on that thing through some kind of ME based techno magic. Chat with EDI in the Comm room for full details.

Yeah, good point.  It's like the 'ansible' from Ender's Game.  No way the Collectors can intercept that signal.

[glitter_guld]

Of course, I do. There is no one else serious enough in the whole game to support. Since no one else in the whole galaxy seem to care about the Reapers, who almost destroyed the Citadel and killed everyone in there, it is only logical to support Cerberus. Trust has nothing to do with the issue. TIM and Shepard have the same goal, trust or not, thus he payed for the resurrection. If that wouldn't be true on the first place, Shepard would still rot where he/she fell.

[Terraneaux]

Shandepared wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

Then don't transmit them.  Write it on a piece of paper and hand it to him.  Seriously.  It's not that hard.

That would be time consuming and time was against him.

And if Shepard gets captured or killed, the whole Lazarus Cell is a waste.  TIM took an unreasonable risk; it panned out, but only through sheer luck and no skill or good judgment on TIM's part.

[jklinders]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

DanaScu wrote...





Don't forget, TIM also leaked the information to the Alliance that you were working for Cerberus now. That's why the Alliance sent Ash/Kaidan to Horizon. Oh, and the information that you are working for Cerberus also makes the Council consider charging you with treason.  Why wouldn't I trust TIM after he was so helpful? /sarcasm TIM sets the stage so none of your former associations like the Alliance or the Council will work with you because he broadcasts the information you're working with Cerberus. You have to depend on Cerberus because he's set you up to have no choice. I consider that to be "untrustworthy".

Remember the recordings on Pragia, in the Teltin facility? The scientists are worried that TIM is asking for reports.  The first one says "If he knew what we've done" and the second one replies "He won't find out. As long as we get results, he won't care.

He'd use their results, no matter how they were obtained. He is amoral, and ruthless. As long as his version of humanity is on top, the methods used to get there don't matter to him. Torture and murder are fine, as long as the end result is something he can use to "further the cause of humanity".

I don't buy that "rogue cell" line either. If all of the cells that my Shepard wiped out in ME went rogue, then TIM is an incompetent idiot who has no control whatsoever over any of his people. There was Kahoku's marines, Kahoku himself, the husks, and the rachni that wiped out the marine listening posts that I can remember off-hand.

No, none of my Shepards will ever consider trusting Cerberus.

TIM leaked that info to tip off the collectors to ascertain the collector's motives.

Yes I agree TIM is ruthless.

Working with/supporting Cerberus is not the same as trusting Cerberus.

That's his story. But for every fact he gives you, there are several not spoken.

Since he needs Shep's willing co-operation he needs to isolate Shep from his allies. Since the council and Alliance both are distrustful of Cerberus, the best way to chill their relations with him is to tell the truth. But Before Shepard has even started woring for them.
With dishonest amoral cretin's like TIM it is pretty important to read between the lines.

[Alexandus]

Terraneaux wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...


A better idea would have been to actually let Shepard, who was the field commander, know all the information necessary for him to make decisions.

Wrong, in transmitting his plans to Shepard he might have tipped the Collectors off.

Then don't transmit them.  Write it on a piece of paper and hand it to him.  Seriously.  It's not that hard.

You misunderstand. The Illusive Man was not worried about the Collector's being able to intercept the transmission, that' is unlikely...

Rather, he was concerned that foreknowledge of the trap would tip the Collector's off by subtle mannerism changes in Shepard. 70% of what we communicate is through body language, after all (admittedly, not on the forums, haha)

[Terraneaux]

Shandepared wrote...

I don't know, I'm not terribly knowledgable about the ins-and-outs of impossible communications systems that could never possibly exist in real-life. However TIM makes it very clear why he doesn't tell you. I have yet to hear a logical reason why he'd betray Shepard like that after going to great expense to ressurect him and provide him the tools necessary to stop the Collectors.

Remember 'Cerberus IS humanity?' at the end of the game.  TIM is not a utilitarian.  A world in which he does not have power is not a worthwhile one, for TIM.  A universe in which the Reapers win but Cerberus loses is still a loss to him; that's why he doesn't bother working towards that eventuality.  

[SerenityN0w]

jklinders wrote...


How may I ask. The type of comm unit Shep and TIM used cannot be hacked. Shep can only communicate with TIM on that thing through some kind of ME based techno magic. Chat with EDI in the Comm room for full details.

When you don't fully understand what your enemy is capable of it's best not to take any risks that could change a damn near impossible mission to a completely impossible mission.

Modifié par SerenityN0w, 11 mars 2010 - 12:48 .