427 réponses à ce sujet

[Terraneaux]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

stuff

Ex-actly.  

[Wildecker]

Alexandus wrote...

anmiro wrote...

 No. Cerberus has the capability to do anything they want and have no codes of conduct to guide their actions. They have and will kill as many innocent people as they want to achieve their goals. They are glorified terrorists. Just because the Illusive Man does not want to be wiped out by the Reapers does not make him a good guy or excuse him for his past crimes. Cerberus is nothing more than the enemy of Shepard's enemy. And if we don't have an opportunity to destroy Cerberus in ME3, I will be very disappointed.

*chuckles* Terrorists have no other goal than...to inspire terror! Their title is NOT a misnomer, by any means.

Cerberus. Is. Not. A. Terrorist. Organization.

They have very clear goals: The Advancement and Survival of Humanity.

Everything they do is an attempt to further that goal. Not to spread terror.

If you are looking for a Terrorist group, look no further than the Batarians.

Well - the IRA had a very clear goal: freedom for the whole of Ireland and an
end to British occupation.
The ETA has a clear goal: independence for the Basques.
In a way, al Quaeda has a primary goal: breaking the (perceived) choke-hold of U.S. domination all across Muslim territories and installing/re-installing Islamic rule.
Hell, even the Khmer Rouge found some noble justification for their Killing Fields. Something like the Survival and Advancement of the Khmer people, if my memory serves me right ...

So it's not really that simple. Apparently, the means you apply to reach that goal make a difference. I have yet to see someone call Gandhi a terrorist, although maybe it was done in English newspapers at his time ... something like "That bastard! Look what he made us do!"

Back to the game: as far as I can see, the Council has decided that the whole Reaper arc was an admirable bluff pulled off by Saren Arterius to recruit the Geth for his crusade. They have no idea why Saren would assault the Citadel instead of hitting the Alliance straight away, but "well, he's dead so we'll never find out what made him tick. Perhaps he bought his own lies in the end?" And apparently the Turian councilor thinks the Alliance is only using the whole Reaper story to justify building up military strength to push the Turians out of their job on the council. Even if the Geth would tell their story of Nazara and the other Old Machines it would be dismissed.

So much as it pains me to say so, the Council won't be of much use. At least not until the Reapers start hitting the galaxy in scores. Someone else will have to take the brunt of their first wave.

And here's the fix: the Humans aren't up to it on their own, and due to past Cerberus actions no other power is willing to side with Cerberus. So it's up to Shepard to forge alliances.
And concerning the destruction of the Collector Base: does anyone remember Mordin's speech about Collector equipment being non-ergonomic and all that right after Horizon? The Collectors used Reaper equipment that would hurt and kill them in the long run because their masters didn't give a hoot for them. I think it's reasonable to assume that their base held just the technology they needed for their job and nothing else: the hardware to process organic species into Reaper base material, a docking wharf for their cruiser, with luck a facility to build Oculus combat drones. And that's all.

Modifié par Wildecker, 11 mars 2010 - 07:28 .

[grayfox4000]

Cerberus is all about power and dominating the universe after the reapers are gone. I'm all for that because they brought me back to life and they pay me and give me stuff. After the reapers I'll take over the bloody universe. \\o/ Mahahahaah!!! O__O

[enormousmoonboots]

Cerberus Commando wrote...

What dose shepard get from Cerberus?
1. LIFE! To be able to live again!!

2. The New And IMPROVED NORMANDY SR2!!! It puts the alliance SR1 to shame!

3. Weapons and Armor! The freaking council sent him away on a dangeruos mission with the cloths on his back!!!!

4. Money! Cerberus funds the mission!!!! The council didn't even offer to give Shepard toilet paper!!!!!!

5. Cerberus is taking action to prepare for the Reapers! WTF is the council doing!? Busy talking about how they made a skitsofrania their Spectre?

2. Anyone can build a ship. In fact, the SR2 is a bit crap (so where's my medigel dispenser?), and YOU'RE the one who needs to hunt down turian, asari, and quarian improvements in order to not die.
3. I'll give you that, but the Elite Spectre weapons seem to be of a much higher caliber than the heavy weapons TIM periodically craps out. In fact, the only seriously useful weapon you get from Cerberus is the Eviscerator shotgun.
4. This is funny, since despite a lack of funding I had credits falling out my ass in the first game. It was a trial NOT to be at the credits cap once the game got going. Both this and 3 can be accredited to the overall mechanics change between the two games (no inventory system means no sellable items, which was where most of ME1's money came from), but I still think it's funny.
5. To be fair, you don't know what the Council is doing. They won't tell you, because TIM told them you were working for Cerberus now. News reports, however, indicate that the Council fleet is quietly being built up stronger than before. And what do you think the turians are doing with that insanely powerful Thanix cannon of theirs, putting it up on the wall?

[Ride2Ruin25]

I know it's a theme that is frequently brought up by the various Cerberus characters in-game, but I find myself supporting Cerberus out of necessity, though I drew the line at keeping the Collector Base; that said, it was a tough decision to make the first time, as TIM had an very sound and persuasive argument.

There's a line that Shepard can say to Miranda after her loyalty mission that I quite like, as it sums up my feelings on Cerberus:
Miranda: "Frankly, based on what I've seen, I wish Cerberus had recruited you earlier."
Shepard: "I trust you, but I don't trust Cerberus."

I trust most of the Cerberus people on the Normandy SR-2, especially after completing the game as a paragon Shepard, since they seem to be mostly loyal to the more benevolent ideals that Cerberus touts than the organization itself (not to mention the fact that Shepard earns their trust by saving their asses, potentially of course). Ultimately, I like the idea of Cerberus and can trust certain people within it, but I guess I just don't feel that I can rely on TIM to rein himself in before he goes too far (i.e. abusing the power of the possibly-obtained Collector Base for humanity's, or his, gain to the detriment of other species).

Modifié par Ride2Ruin25, 11 mars 2010 - 07:34 .

[Terraneaux]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I realize working with Cerberus is not exactly a desirable working relationship, but what is your alternative to defeat the Reapers?

There would be an alternative if the council wasn't written in such a poor manner.  In any case, you've got the ship and TIM can't spy on you any more.  No reason to work for Cerberus after the end of ME2.  

[enormousmoonboots]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

The thing that I don't buy about the 'didn't want to tip off the Collectors' excuse (and tip them off how, through physical cues? Certainly not facial expressions, helmet. And how would a Collector be able to read human body language? They have no cultural context in which to view humanity and understand the subtle cues of body language. Hell, people who actually STUDY body language admit that it's a bit of a crapshoot) is that Mordin tells you before this that the Collectors are barely sentient enough to follow orders. All of their 'tactical thinking' is done by DIRECT CONTROL via Harbinger. For these reasons, how could they possibly be 'tipped off' by Shepard's actions?

And secondly--everyone I know took their rifles out and started grabbing cover like they were about to pop out any second ANYWAY. That sure seems like it would tip them off.

Morality aside, his reluctance to share indicates a few possibilities--
1) He is actually dumb enough to think it's a good idea. (this has doomed the galaxy FOUR TIMES on my Insanity run)
2) He is a megalomaniacal egotist who wants to hold all the cards, ALL of the time.
3) He is actively working against you.

Whichever is true, no possibility is going to be able to manage a good working relationship.

I realize working with Cerberus is not exactly a desirable working relationship, but what is your alternative to defeat the Reapers?

Me and my rachni/geth/krogan/quarian fleet.

People keep forgetting that Cerberus has no kind of navy (space navy, that is). Sure, they built a new Normandy--but that's ONE ship, and that took a huge chunk of resources. They're privately funded, they can't possibly wage any kind of space battle. And while I doubt the final solution to the Reapers will come about solely via space combat, it's going to be necessary.

They're also an incredibly small operation. TIM runs, what, around twelve cells at a time? At least two of those are annihilated (derelict Reaper research cell, Lazarus cell, and let's not forget all those people you killed in the first game).

Cerberus simply doesn't have any magical kind of 'win' button. Their entire Reaper-fighting strategy was resurrecting you and pointing you at the Collectors. Giving TIM the base? You think that'll make a difference? Please. You need to liquify millions of humans to create a human Reaper, which TIM calls one of his potential goals. Where are they going to get them?

Cerberus's best resource and greatest asset against the Reapers? Is you.

[enormousmoonboots]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

The thing that I don't buy about the 'didn't want to tip off the Collectors' excuse (and tip them off how, through physical cues? Certainly not facial expressions, helmet. And how would a Collector be able to read human body language? They have no cultural context in which to view humanity and understand the subtle cues of body language. Hell, people who actually STUDY body language admit that it's a bit of a crapshoot) is that Mordin tells you before this that the Collectors are barely sentient enough to follow orders. All of their 'tactical thinking' is done by DIRECT CONTROL via Harbinger. For these reasons, how could they possibly be 'tipped off' by Shepard's actions?

And secondly--everyone I know took their rifles out and started grabbing cover like they were about to pop out any second ANYWAY. That sure seems like it would tip them off.

Morality aside, his reluctance to share indicates a few possibilities--
1) He is actually dumb enough to think it's a good idea. (this has doomed the galaxy FOUR TIMES on my Insanity run)
2) He is a megalomaniacal egotist who wants to hold all the cards, ALL of the time.
3) He is actively working against you.

Whichever is true, no possibility is going to be able to manage a good working relationship.

I realize working with Cerberus is not exactly a desirable working relationship, but what is your alternative to defeat the Reapers?

Me and my rachni/geth/krogan/quarian fleet.

People keep forgetting that Cerberus has no kind of navy (space navy, that is). Sure, they built a new Normandy--but that's ONE ship, and that took a huge chunk of resources. They're privately funded, they can't possibly wage any kind of space battle. And while I doubt the final solution to the Reapers will come about solely via space combat, it's going to be necessary.

They're also an incredibly small operation. TIM runs, what, around twelve cells at a time? At least two of those are annihilated (derelict Reaper research cell, Lazarus cell, and let's not forget all those people you killed in the first game).

Cerberus simply doesn't have any magical kind of 'win' button. Their entire Reaper-fighting strategy was resurrecting you and pointing you at the Collectors. Giving TIM the base? You think that'll make a difference? Please. You need to liquify millions of humans to create a human Reaper, which TIM calls one of his potential goals. Where are they going to get them?

Cerberus's best resource and greatest asset against the Reapers? Is you.

Ok, I'll buy the Geth because of Legion.  The Rachni only exist if you decided not to kill the queen.  So although you may have let her go in ME1, the Rachni wouldn't play much of a visible prominent role in ME3.  I am not sure if the Krogans have a fleet.  The Quarians seem to have the same attitude towards the Reapers as the Council and Alliance.

The krogans will be my ground/boarding troops, of course. Since I put Mordin to work on that genophage cure and all, they'll have the numbers. The rachni queen swears to help you against the Reapers since they're the ones who did her race in, so she is pretty much a lock. And no, the quarians are aware of the Reapers. There's a faction trying to study them to possibly control the geth again. Read the books.

The standard Paragon decisions (save Wrex, save cure, save rachni, rewrite geth, plead for peace with the quarians, nuke the base) are all geared to building you allies among the aliens. The Renegade ones are geared to building up the strength of humanity and only humanity, often at the expense of the other races.

[Wildecker]

Cerberus Commando wrote...
What dose shepard get from Cerberus?
1. LIFE! To be able to live again!!

You know The Man didn't have you resurrected out of sheer kindness? He needed a bloody hero who can inspire his crew to follow him straight to Hell, no matter how bad the odds are. That's a quality Miranda admits she is lacking.

And with you on their roster people who wouldn't have touched Cerberus with a long pole before suddenly start thinking they can't be that bad after all if Cmdr. Shepard is on their team. Just like Dr. Chakwas and Tali'zorah say: "I'm not working for Cerberus - I'm working for you!"

[JoeyUsf813]

Even when I go renegade, I can't support Cerberus. Power ****s, the lot.

[enormousmoonboots]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...
The krogans will be my ground/boarding troops, of course. Since I put Mordin to work on that genophage cure and all, they'll have the numbers. The rachni queen swears to help you against the Reapers since they're the ones who did her race in, so she is pretty much a lock. And no, the quarians are aware of the Reapers. There's a faction trying to study them to possibly control the geth again. Read the books.

The standard Paragon decisions (save Wrex, save cure, save rachni, rewrite geth, plead for peace with the quarians, nuke the base) are all geared to building you allies among the aliens. The Renegade ones are geared to building up the strength of humanity and only humanity, often at the expense of the other races.

Sounds like a plan.  I still don't see the Rachni helping you anymore in ME3 than Wrex/Kaiden/Ahley helped you in ME2 though.  But that I suppose is just a prediction.  I am assuming that Bioware will not be able to produce a game with so many variables i.e. Wrex, Ashley, Kaiden, Rachni because they all could have died in ME1. 
 
I assume your Shep will have taken the Normandy away from Cerberus and will be primarily using it for his/her crew?

I am planning on buying and reading the books pretty soon.  I am looking forward to it.  Did you enjoy them?

Have you seen what the rachni queen says? She (through an asari agent) literally shows up on Ilium and swears to help you fight the Reapers. News reports speak of seeing mysterious ships matching ancient rachni profiles. Definitely in, seeing as the rachni decision was one of the most important of ME1. Yeah, there are a lot of variables, but I trust the devs (particularly since the game is geared toward playing Paragon; 90% of the time, a quest you solved the Renegade way in the first game just won't show up in ME2, mostly since you probably killed them, while the Paragon resolution will have a survivor that either emails you or meets you, like Shiala, Gianna, and the rachni queen).

The crew is more loyal to Shep than TIM in the first place if you rescue them; I believe all of them tell you they just joined/were recruited by Cerberus recently for this very mission. Could use a new paint job, though. Don't know why TIM insists on plastering the Cerberus logo on every damn thing he owns.

Books are decent. Don't expect Shakespeare, but they do a good job of fleshing out the universe. Ascension, the one I referred to, is the one that is probably going to be more important; talks about Cerberus, TIM, the quarians, lots of useful information. The reason the quarians hate Cerberus so much takes place in that book. The other one, Revelations, is the one about Saren and Anderson. There's a character carried between the two, but I think Ascension is a stronger showing and better read overall.

[enormousmoonboots]

Cerberus Commando wrote...

Ok enormousmoon boots, so are you saying that you had a better chance facing the collectors with the SR1? And the council is building an big and stronger fleet huh? Well what's it for? To wait for the reapers to attack like soverign did in me1? And I know you liked that E. Shotgun! Haha.... But dude seriously, you would go back to the council and serve as a spectre?????????

Not saying I would have had a better chance in the SR1, but the SR2 is not significantly superior without its (non-Cerberus) upgrades.

Okay, seriously: what is Cerberus going to do that is so much better than the Council? Read my post a few spots up for more on Cerberus resources but here's the short version: they can't go meet the Reapers in dark space. They can't fight ship-to-ship. They don't have an army. If you gave them the base, they have a Collector base. That's nice, what are they going to do with it? Build a human Reaper? You need millions of humans to do that. TIM's entire Reaper-fighting plan was to ressurect Shepard, point him/her to the Collectors, and hope things go well.

Hell yes I will be a Spectre again. Shows the Council trusts me and lets me break the law with impunity. And I certainly need allies at this point. 'Sides, don't you remember that sweet C-Sec rare stock? Sh*t was so creds.

Modifié par enormousmoonboots, 11 mars 2010 - 09:09 .

[Wildecker]

enormousmoonboots wrote...
Have you seen what the rachni queen says? She (through an asari agent) literally shows up on Ilium and swears to help you fight the Reapers. News reports speak of seeing mysterious ships matching ancient rachni profiles. Definitely in, seeing as the rachni decision was one of the most important of ME1.

While I let the queen go in ME1 and was glad to learn she'd made it off Noveria, I don't expect the Rachni to show up in huge numbers - in my opinion they just don't have enough time to breed millions of warriors and thousands of cruisers. I believe the news reports mention small craft like scouts that look like built on old Rachni patterns, and only single ships. However, they will commit, and they will do their best, and that is all anyone can ask for (and more than the current council is willing to offer to my face ...)

[Micon2]

Wow the writers will be thunderstruck at the emotional responses they have engineered from this one choice!

Cerberus Commando, I do like the logic, I read in a post, or I had a dream ( I know that sounds crazy) but Miranda will try to kill you if don't give the Illusive man what he wants. ?

Also TIM is Shadow Broker or part of the shadow broker .org or Cerberus is SB, there must be a link.

Prepare a Sheperd for a few eventualities! Best game for ages