427 réponses à ce sujet

[Meglivorn]

I can't imageine a scenario (renegade or paragon) where I would.

On paragon, cerberus is just an "evil" terrorist group, killing thousands for personal gain. And not just aliens but humans too.
On renegade, I may be an **** myself but still mostly for becouse my mission is more important than being nice and "why the **** not"? On the other hand Cerberus is as much as a threat against me than any other enemy. They tried to kill me before, and they killed humans before. So as a humanity supporter still hate them (they just as bad for humanity than the batarians).

And about the "for the humanity" slogen. Bull****. Always, every politican do everything for the people. The worst they are the more they say it. Terra Firma at least honest and open about their agenda. Cerberus on the other hand lies even to their people.
And at the end:

"Humanity, or just Cerberus?"
"The strength of Cerberus is strength of every human. Cerberus is humanity!"
Oops. Busted.

Modifié par Meglivorn, 09 mars 2010 - 09:13 .

[Sharn01]

SerenityN0w wrote...
Who said he wanted to build a human reaper for all we know he is just going to study their technology and implement it in the same way the turians did with the thanix cannons. Or get a better understanding of it to find a potential weak spot. Also from what we know about making reapers it would take millions maybe more human lives to make a human reaper. Someone who is trying to advance humanity would never sacrifice millions of human lives for one potential weapon when theres thousands maybe more of the same thing coming our way.

Because TIM and Cerberus certainly do not have a history of slaughtering as many as million's of people in order to discover advancement's in technology...oh, wait.

[enormousmoonboots]

SerenityN0w wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

SerenityN0w wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Nope. Idiots in the first game with an undercurrent of 'evil for the sake of evil' (what possible benefit is there to injecting humans with thresher maw blood? Or feeding a unit to them?), dirty manipulating liars in the second game.

Also, responsible for getting me Husk-rushed four times. That's unforgivable.

Your right about the thresher maw thing that was ****ed up and unnecessary but them bringing Shep back to life and saving the galaxy from the Collectors as well as actually doing something about the coming Reaper threat should earn them some trust. The Alliance on the other hand wants to just sit there and hope these problems fix themselves or just pretend they don't exist at all.

Are you seriously implying TIM wanting to build a human Reaper is a good thing? You really think that could possibly end well? (if you're a devotee of the God-Emperor, you need not answer this question)

Who said he wanted to build a human reaper for all we know he is just going to study their technology and implement it in the same way the turians did with the thanix cannons. Or get a better understanding of it to find a potential weak spot. Also from what we know about making reapers it would take millions maybe more human lives to make a human reaper. Someone who is trying to advance humanity would never sacrifice millions of human lives for one potential weapon when theres thousands possible more of the same thing coming our way.

He does, actually. In the final scenes you can accuse him of wanting to build a human Reaper and he goes 'yeah, totally'.

Yeah, someone wanting to advance humanity would never put a bunch of plant zombies on a human colony world...or feed multiple units of human marines to a thresher maw...or murder an Alliance admiral...yeah, Cerberus would never do stuff like that.

TIM wants power. 'Humanity first' is just his slogan to achieve it.

Modifié par enormousmoonboots, 09 mars 2010 - 09:18 .

[SerenityN0w]

Sharn01 wrote...

SerenityN0w wrote...
Who said he wanted to build a human reaper for all we know he is just going to study their technology and implement it in the same way the turians did with the thanix cannons. Or get a better understanding of it to find a potential weak spot. Also from what we know about making reapers it would take millions maybe more human lives to make a human reaper. Someone who is trying to advance humanity would never sacrifice millions of human lives for one potential weapon when theres thousands maybe more of the same thing coming our way.

Because TIM and Cerberus certainly do not have a history of slaughtering as many as million's of people in order to discover advancement's in technology...oh, wait.

You can't advance a species if you keep slaughtering it. Killing millions of humans is against everything Cerberus stands for it wouldn't make any sense. I don't understand how people can just turn down the unlimited resources Cerberus offers to remove this galaxy wide threat when no one else is willing to help. 

Modifié par SerenityN0w, 09 mars 2010 - 09:29 .

[Weskerr]

What was never explained and has bothered me the most about the story in ME2 is not that Shepard is working for Cerberus, but how the Illusive Man is convinced that the Reapers are real when the Council and Alliance are not. What additional information does Cerberus and the Illusive Man have about the Reapers that the Council and the Alliance don't? How is it that the Illusive Man knows the truth? Is his intelligence network superior to theirs?

[enormousmoonboots]

Cerberus Commando wrote...

Hey mr.enormousmoonboors. Tell me, this( I am talking to you as if you are your shepard) who are you depending on to help fight the reapers if not Cerberus? You saw.it yourself. The Alliance, the cidital.... They won't do anything for you. And the sad part is, you want to save their asses. Cerberus is willing to help you. There is something that the illusive man is not telling you but hey, it's better then becoming a husk for the reapers... Unless the illusive man is a reaper himself?????(-.-)

I'm depending on the rachni. The krogan, the geth, the quarians. The turians (you really think they just picked up that Thanix cannon and decided to hang it on the wall?).

I'm depending on Wrex, Garrus, and Tali. I'm depending on Joker, on the Normandy, on EDI. I'm depending on the goddamn M-920 Cain.

Never work for terrorists. Never compromise, not even in the face of armageddon.

Modifié par enormousmoonboots, 09 mars 2010 - 09:33 .

[Sharn01]

SerenityN0w wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

SerenityN0w wrote...
Who said he wanted to build a human reaper for all we know he is just going to study their technology and implement it in the same way the turians did with the thanix cannons. Or get a better understanding of it to find a potential weak spot. Also from what we know about making reapers it would take millions maybe more human lives to make a human reaper. Someone who is trying to advance humanity would never sacrifice millions of human lives for one potential weapon when theres thousands maybe more of the same thing coming our way.

Because TIM and Cerberus certainly do not have a history of slaughtering as many as million's of people in order to discover advancement's in technology...oh, wait.

You can't advance a species if you keep slaughtering it. Killing millions of humans is against everything Cerberus stands for it wouldn't make any sense. 

In the year 2170 Cerberus began causing a series of industrial accident's in human colonies to expose the population to element zero.  The largest of which was the Yandoa colony, purported to have a population in the million where Cerberus detonated a Eldrell-Ashland Energy Vessel loaded with element zero over the colony.  It resulted in hundred's of thousand's of death's due to element  zero exposure, the end result was that 37 children where born healthy and also with biotic abilities.

These are the kind of number's Cerberus find's acceptable.

Mass Effect: Retribution is a canon novel that takes place after the event's of mass effect 2, where TIM kidnaps people to experiment on them, trying to make a human/reaper hybrid.  It seems to be assumed that the reaper tech came from the stolen pieces of Sovereign. 

TIM HAS killed million's of human's in the course of various experiment's already, and has also shown intent to experiment with reaper tech on human's, I would not put it past him to start pasting human's at the Collector base if you gave it to him, at the very least to see what it can do and have material to study, at the worst to make a reaper under his control, though that I think is less likely.

Cerberus only cares for humanity if you take what TIM tells you at face value, and assume he is incapable of telling a lie.  The whole humanity first theme seems to be more of a ruse to get recruitment number's up and to inspire sympathy from the human population.  If you actually pay attention to TIM and Cerberus's action's it falls more in line with the accumulation of power and the advancement of human technology, not the advancement of safety or the enrichment of human life.

Modifié par Sharn01, 09 mars 2010 - 09:38 .

[Terraneaux]

Weskerr wrote...

What was never explained and has bothered me the most about the story in ME2 is not that Shepard is working for Cerberus, but how the Illusive Man is convinced that the Reapers are real when the Council and Alliance are not. What additional information does Cerberus and the Illusive Man have about the Reapers that the Council and the Alliance don't? How is it that the Illusive Man knows the truth? Is his intelligence network superior to theirs?

And why doesn't he spend any effort trying to get the council to see?  Surely a galaxy mobilized against the reaper threat would be better.

[SerenityN0w]

Weskerr wrote...

What was never explained and has bothered me the most about the story in ME2 is not that Shepard is working for Cerberus, but how the Illusive Man is convinced that the Reapers are real when the Council and Alliance are not. What additional information does Cerberus and the Illusive Man have about the Reapers that the Council and the Alliance don't? How is it that the Illusive Man knows the truth? Is his intelligence network superior to theirs?

It's not that he has more information (though he very well could) it's that he isn't a thick headed moron and can clearly see the evidence of the reapers where as the council and the alliance refuse to admit they were wrong due to the political ramifications and wide spread panic I'm sure. Illusive man > politicians

[dLied]

Alexandus wrote...

While the Alliance and the Council sat making excuses, Cerberus acted.

While others cast blame at the Illusive Man, he made the hard choices the situation needed.

While all others let Shepard rot, Cerberus ressurected him.

While others doubted the Reaper threat, Cerberus recognized it as the threat it is.

Cerberus has my vote.

this.

[Zulu_DFA]

Why not?

[Terraneaux]

SerenityN0w wrote...

It's not that he has more information (though he very well could) it's that he isn't a thick headed moron and can clearly see the evidence of the reapers where as the council and the alliance refuse to admit they were wrong due to the political ramifications and wide spread panic I'm sure. Illusive man > politicians

There are plenty of politicians who, given the set of data TIM has, would understand what's going on.  Hell, the council says they believe you at the end of ME1.  The idea that it's somehow politically inexpedient to not make the reaper threat public is silly; everyone knows that war is a great way for politicians to solidify power.  All it is is a forced bit of writing trying to make TIM seem like awesomesauce, at the expense of characterization shown in ME1.  

[mortons4ck]

I work with Cerberus, I respect Cerberus, but I do not trust Cerberus.

[Beholderess]

I don't. Their methods are unacceptable.

I understand that that it is nessesary to work for them in this game, but I can't help feeling that Shepard is forced to make a deal with the devil.

As for them claiming to act in humanity's best interests - they seem to be way too callous with human lives to believe them. They've fed the company of Alliance marines to threshner maws. They brutally experimented on human children. They wiped out several colonies in the name of research. All that doesn't looks like "acting in humanity's best interest" for me.



Heh, I bet they've only acted against Collectors because they were annoyed at having competition. Cerberus is the only one allowed to wipe out human colonies, you know=)

[enormousmoonboots]

Cerberus Commando wrote...

I understand where you're coming from mr.enormousmoonboors. But the reapers are coming. But seriously... You'd trade Humanity and all other life just because you're rightous??? You and I both know that

1. The rachni are strong now that they are back but tell me this, what caused they extinction? The main reason is "the reapers"

2. The krogan can barly reproduce!!!! They busy fighting the geno!

3. The geths? Are you serious? There's only one geth u trust and his name is legion.

4. The migrant fleet lost their home world to the geth. They want to kill geths at the moment, not reapers.

Garrus, tail, and wrex are only 3 soldiers. You've got an army of reapers headed towards the milky way. I think you're gonna need more help.
 

You're implying that I didn't save the genophage cure and set Mordin working on it, reprogram the heretic geth (and Legion is over a thousand geth, dude. And I won his loyalty), and convince the quarian admirals to give peace a chance. You have fun getting backstabbed by TIM, I'm just going to ride my rachni dreadnoughts with their krogan catapults and shoot every Reaper in the face with a nuke.

5.m-929 Cain? Whats wring with cillector tech? I'd say it was the
collector ship that iced that derilect reaper.... Before they were
collecters ofcourse.

Uh...no, it wasn't. That derelict Reaper was killed 37 million years ago. The Proteans were snuffed out 50,000 years ago. The Protheans couldn't have killed that Reaper. Besides which, Collector tech IS Reaper tech. That Collector ship was built by the Reapers.

You played this game on something other than Renegade Hurr Durr Cerberus apologist mode, right?

[Cavado]

nope illusive man not trust worthy I think if they had someone who had the interest for not only humanity but the entire galaxy at heart then possibly but sounds like I just described the Alliance

[Beholderess]

Sharn01 wrote...

In the year 2170 Cerberus began causing a series of industrial accident's in human colonies to expose the population to element zero.  The largest of which was the Yandoa colony, purported to have a population in the million where Cerberus detonated a Eldrell-Ashland Energy Vessel loaded with element zero over the colony.  It resulted in hundred's of thousand's of death's due to element  zero exposure, the end result was that 37 children where born healthy and also with biotic abilities.

These are the kind of number's Cerberus find's acceptable.

Mass Effect: Retribution is a canon novel that takes place after the event's of mass effect 2, where TIM kidnaps people to experiment on them, trying to make a human/reaper hybrid.  It seems to be assumed that the reaper tech came from the stolen pieces of Sovereign. 

TIM HAS killed million's of human's in the course of various experiment's already, and has also shown intent to experiment with reaper tech on human's, I would not put it past him to start pasting human's at the Collector base if you gave it to him, at the very least to see what it can do and have material to study, at the worst to make a reaper under his control, though that I think is less likely.

Cerberus only cares for humanity if you take what TIM tells you at face value, and assume he is incapable of telling a lie.  The whole humanity first theme seems to be more of a ruse to get recruitment number's up and to inspire sympathy from the human population.  If you actually pay attention to TIM and Cerberus's action's it falls more in line with the accumulation of power and the advancement of human technology, not the advancement of safety or the enrichment of human life.

This.
No mtter what they say, Cerberus does not care about humanity as of anything more than a tool.
It is shown clearly in game, when TIM starts raving that Cerberus IS humanity.

[Barquiel]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Besides which, Collector tech IS Reaper tech. That Collector ship was built by the Reapers.

I don't know. I think the collecetor ship wasn't that advanced (compared to Sovereign)
Normandy SR2 (1 frigate) > collector ship

...and I don't support Cerberus
"unacceptable methods, unacceptable goals"

[Weskerr]

Terraneaux wrote...

SerenityN0w wrote...

It's not that he has more information (though he very well could) it's that he isn't a thick headed moron and can clearly see the evidence of the reapers where as the council and the alliance refuse to admit they were wrong due to the political ramifications and wide spread panic I'm sure. Illusive man > politicians

There are plenty of politicians who, given the set of data TIM has, would understand what's going on.  Hell, the council says they believe you at the end of ME1.  The idea that it's somehow politically inexpedient to not make the reaper threat public is silly; everyone knows that war is a great way for politicians to solidify power.  All it is is a forced bit of writing trying to make TIM seem like awesomesauce, at the expense of characterization shown in ME1.  

I have to agree with Terraneau. Even if the Council is composed of politicians, they are also leaders. It would be much more understandable if the Council denied the existence of Reapers to the public, but secretly funded a project to determine if they are real. Also, as far as we know, the Council, Alliance, and Cerberus have the same evidence in front of them about the Reapers. So how is it that, when presented with the same evidence, the Council and Alliance do not conclude that the Reapers are real, but Cerberus does? I cannot accept the explanation that "the Council is stupid" without feeling that the writers are insulting my intelligence. That explanation just isn't plausible.To me, this is either bad story writing or TIM really does have more information and the writers are saving this revelation for ME3 as a plot twist.

[eternalnightmare13]

I can almost buy his reasoning for keeping the base, but given the fact that he'd lied to Shep about the Collector ship, and Cerebus' past involving Akuze, Jack, and other mad scientist stuff I do not trust him. Cerebus isn't about the advancement of humanity, but the ego and power of TIM.