427 réponses à ce sujet

[Meglivorn]

Cerberus Commando wrote...

Hey meglivorn. Who will help you stop the reapers if not Cerberus? I admitt our methods are extrem, but would you trade the entire galaxy over to the reapers instead of the illusive man?

IF TIM think serious only a little about "for the humanity" then Shepards decisions won't stop him help fight against the reapers. If not, well then I was right
And there are the quarians, the geth, the rachni, and even the turians, salarians and krogans, and the Alliance itself. The facty that they don't openly support you in the Terminus systems and don't believe the reaper threat, at an open invasion they will make decisions (like the battle of the citadel, and it's not relevant that they fight a geth warship or a reaper until they fight).
Cerberus is not for humaity. Its for Cerberus and nothing more. I'm more surprised that how many just can't see this, when its so openly before them. Not even hidden between lines and lies.

But on the other hand: the victory against the reapers will not be a military combat victory. An open war against that army awakening at the end of ME2 clearly impossible. The numbers and loyality of your allies will determine of the losses and devastation. (of course this is my speculation but the first two games tends to lead this way).

[AntiChri5]

Shandepared wrote...

Meglivorn wrote...

Cerberus is not for humaity. Its for Cerberus and nothing more. I'm more surprised that how many just can't see this, when its so openly before them. Not even hidden between lines and lies.

I'd love to see some actual evidence of this beyond your naive ranting.

Maybe it has something to do with the thousands of humans Cerberus has killed?

Or assassinating (human) political leaders they dont like?

Or killing (human) Admirals?

[Lord Abrasion]

Cerberus Commando wrote...

Hey meglivorn. Who will help you stop the reapers if not Cerberus? I admitt our methods are extrem, but would you trade the entire galaxy over to the reapers instead of the illusive man?

The Quarians, Geth and Rachni are all possible allies.

[Computron2000]

Support Cerberus? No. They have no checks and balances to stop them from running things for their own benefit. They only problem they might face is if their private funders pull out but TIM would assassinate/blackmail them before they could do this

[earl of the north]

Alliance - failed Shepard
Citadel Council - failed Shepard repeatedly.
Cerberus - we will see.......my Shepard's generally believe the mission comes first, and they will use anyone to fulfill the mission and wipe out anybody that gets in there way.
Maybe its time the Galaxy had a Emperor (or Empress)........Emperor Shepard has a ring to it, doesn't it.

[Asheer_Khan]

Shandepared wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Maybe it has something to do with the thousands of humans Cerberus has killed?

Or assassinating (human) political leaders they dont like?

Or killing (human) Admirals?

That proves nothing. "Sometimes a thousand must die so a million can live!" -Shepard

Ask all those who died in Dahau, Aushwitz/Birkenau, Sobibor, SachsenHausen or not to long ago in Srebrenica if thier death contributed IN ANY WAY to humanity development?

I tought that times where such psychos like Hitler were able to rally milions are over but after my experience whit this forum and Cerberus subject in general i am not sure anymore... and that's something really troubling.

[AntiChri5]

Shandepared wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Maybe it has something to do with the thousands of humans Cerberus has killed?

Or assassinating (human) political leaders they dont like?

Or killing (human) Admirals?

That proves nothing. "Sometimes a thousand must die so a million can live!" -Shepard

That argument might be valid if Cerberus ever accomplished anything. Point out one timewhere Cerberus didnt fail completely?

[Multifarious Algorithm]

There are some pretty serious questions to be asked about what exactly TIM thought they were doing at the Telton facility. On some level he greenlit a project to kidnap biotic-potential children and keep them in that place. That he didn't necessarily greenlight the mass murder of them doesn't magically absolve him of responsibility either.

EDIT: Also - whether or not Cerberus does good work sometimes doesn't answer whether they're overall a good organization to have. TIM's ethical "flexibility" swings from him pursuing some useful projects to other completely dispicable ones. The research carried out by the cells which found the Reaper IFF for example, could've been done by any other group with the funding to do so - it doesn't require TIM also kidnapping and experimenting on children.
Shepard is pretty much right to take everything good they've done and abscond with it, because the good does not require the bad.

Modifié par Multifarious Algorithm, 09 mars 2010 - 12:21 .

[Multifarious Algorithm]

Shandepared wrote...

Multifarious Algorithm wrote...

There are some pretty serious questions to be asked about what exactly TIM thought they were doing at the Telton facility. On some level he greenlit a project to kidnap biotic-potential children and keep them in that place. That he didn't necessarily greenlight the mass murder of them doesn't magically absolve him of responsibility either.

No, but ultimately the program succeeded in creating Jack; a powerful biotic. So in the end his method's worked. Humans appear to be making great strides as biotics and it seems Cerberus is largely responsible for that; harsh as their methods might have been.

We don't know it created Jack. Jack might've been powerful without it. The security logs don't indicate they were having dramatic success. At best we know Telton focused Jack to develop her powers - we don't know that this isn't something she could've accomplished in the Ascension school, for example. And on that note - was Jack worth the cost? She's not a replicable result.

[falco117]

If the world was black and white Cerberus is definitely the bet example of grey

[Multifarious Algorithm]

Cerberus seems to be like DARPA, just absent the ethical oversight

[AntiChri5]

Shandepared wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Ask all those who died in Dahau, Aushwitz/Birkenau, Sobibor, SachsenHausen or not to long ago in Srebrenica if thier death contributed IN ANY WAY to humanity development?

I don't know for certain about them but I do know that useful information was gained from the Unit 731 experiments.

Ashee_Khan wrote...

I tought that times where such psychos like Hitler were able to rally milions are over but after my experience whit this forum and Cerberus subject in general i am not sure anymore... and that's something really troubling.

If you think Cerberus is sick you should try talking with the geth sympathizers in the "Quarians got what they deserved" thread.

Also, to the person above this post: 

Cerberus successfully infiltrated the Migrant Fleet, something nobody had EVER done. They resurrected Commander Shepard. Cerberus was largely responsible for both Normandys'; ships with revolutionary technology. Cerberus located the weapon and the target of the mystery behind Klendagon's Rift. They obtained the IFF to safely use the Omega-4 Relay, again something that nobody had ever done. Cerberus provided the funding and material support for the operation wich ended the Collector threat and dealt yet another blow to the Reapers.

Successfully infiltrated the Migrant fleet? The only one of the operatives involved who was not killed betrayed Cerberus and the objective was not completed.

Resurrected Commander Shepard? I seem to remember waking up alone, unarmed, unarmoured, surrounded by hostiles before i was deemed ready to be awakened.

Building the normandy is not a great acheivemnet, anyone with the resources could have done it (and the willingness to sacrifice thousands of innocent lives does not contribute to ship building)

Klengeddon rift research station? All researchers died and the information they found turned out to be a trap.

Providing funding for Shepard is not an accomplishment, they are just standing there holding the money bag open.

[FlintlockJazz]

Shandepared wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Maybe it has something to do with the thousands of humans Cerberus has killed?

Or assassinating (human) political leaders they dont like?

Or killing (human) Admirals?

That proves nothing. "Sometimes a thousand must die so a million can live!" -Shepard

Thats fine until you are one of those thousands.  Do you really think that those people who make those decisions in real life will ever sacrifice themselves?  No they will not, and it is this naivety that allows them to continue in power, slowly massaging their genitals while ordering your death 'for the good of all'.

[Computron2000]

FlintlockJazz wrote...
Thats fine until you are one of those thousands.  Do you really think that those people who make those decisions in real life will ever sacrifice themselves?  No they will not, and it is this naivety that allows them to continue in power, slowly massaging their genitals while ordering your death 'for the good of all'.

Agreed. In short "The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power"

[Asheer_Khan]

Claiming that Timmy was completely unaware what's going on in such cells like Telton facility is as same credible as if Himmler would set up his line of defence in Nuremberg Trial that all death camps were in reality rogue SS cells which acted on thier own...



No... fact that Bioware actually FORCED paragon players (especially whit sole survivor background) to work whit this galactic cancer named Cerberus WITHOUT a single option to break that cooperation after for example Horizon events is something what will not be easy to forgiving... it's like in Empire Strikes Back Luke was attack during his fly to Dagobath, leaves for death, later on found and revived by Empire Special Ops and then get urejectable proposition to work for Empire...

[Lord Abrasion]

Shandepared wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Klengeddon rift research station? All researchers died and the information they found turned out to be a trap.

No, the IFF they recovered got you through the Omega-4 Relay.

Careful, kid. Your selective memory is showing.