427 réponses à ce sujet

[mopotter]

I do not believe the end justifies the means. Besides TIM has weird eyes. I don't trust him.



It may be true he did not know what they were doing to Jack and the other kids but I do believe the scientist who said if they got results he wouldn't care what they had done, was correct. None of my Shepards will support them.

[Terraneaux]

Deleted for not helping anyone, really.

Modifié par Terraneaux, 10 mars 2010 - 01:27 .

[eternalnightmare13]

Terraneaux wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

That swings both ways, buddy. If it is that easy to discredit my arguments then do so.

If you apologize for referring to liberals as 'seditious' when we're exactly *not* the kind of people who would betray our government and our fellow countrymen because our pastor tells us to.  

Both of you need to keep your damn personal political BS to yourselves.  This is a game forum. WTF?

[RyrineaNara]

Terraneaux wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

That swings both ways, buddy. If it is that easy to discredit my arguments then do so.

If you apologize for referring to liberals as 'seditious' when we're exactly *not* the kind of people who would betray our government and our fellow countrymen because our pastor tells us to.  

Yeap,  Liberals aren't the type to betray their goverment, and the the countrymen  because our pastor tells you too. <_< As for him calling liberals seditious, and aplogizing don't hold your breath.

[eternalnightmare13]

bobobo878 wrote...

I support Cerberus, because the Alliance and the Council don't give two s***s about stopping the Reapers. If TIM makes himself Emperor of Outer Space, in the same fashion as Arcturus Mengsk from Starcraft, that would still be preferable to being liquefied by an industrial-sized toaster with a God complex.

That's my approach with one of my Sheps.  It especially pissed me off when Ash called me a traitor, and it became evident that Alliance never really looked for my Shep's corpse or even bothered to recover the dog tags/remains of the other crew of the original Normandy.  It's been two years and no one is after the Geth/Reapers nor concerned about the Collectors so WTF were they doing.  Felt like they left Shep high and dry.  ''Thanks for saiving us all now  FOAD"

[Fritz3D]

Overall I support Cerberus. Doesn't mean I support each and every single thing they did. Also they aren't a monolithic construct, IIRC they are divided in cells and no cell knows what any of the others is doing. They only have a single goal but all follow their own paths to it.



Also I do believe when we raise the bar to species survival level, anything goes. I play 100% renegade not because I hate aliens (only ugly batarians ) but because I know nobody but humanity will take care of humanity when push comes to shove. And I want humanity on top not because I think it's the master race or much better than the other races, but simply because it's MY people. In a galaxy which is most definitely not peaceful and rosy, we need to take our own interest very seriously. Don't forget that having a few alien friends on your ship doesn't at all represent the overall feelings between the species as a whole.



Also I worship efficiency and Cerberus is certainly a lot more efficient than the Council or the Alliance.

[Fritz3D]

Support and trust are not the same.

[TLK Spires]

no. i'm not fond of ****sm on earth, and i'm not fond of it in outer space.

[RyrineaNara]

They are terrorist, so no I do not support them, nor do I trust them at all. Hell I wouldn't be surprised, if they were in control of BATT.

[Bigdoser]

No.

[rumblefv]

 None of the groups in the game, except for my crew, were likable in anyway. The Alliance were stereotypical narrow-minded politicians who would rather sit on their hands than commit to ending an obvious threat. I call bullhonkey their reasons for not having enough resources when it was pretty clear cut they do. Cerberus made it pretty obvious their underlying motivation for helping Shepard was to put the human race on top of the food chain so to speak, no matter the cost (not just end the Reaper threat). Not cool in my Shepard's book. Yes, he did bring him back to life but does not mean Shephard belongs to him. He owes him nothing.

[Alexandus]

RyrineaNara wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

That swings both ways, buddy. If it is that easy to discredit my arguments then do so.

If you apologize for referring to liberals as 'seditious' when we're exactly *not* the kind of people who would betray our government and our fellow countrymen because our pastor tells us to.  

Yeap,  Liberals aren't the type to betray their goverment, and the the countrymen  because our pastor tells you too. <_< As for him calling liberals seditious, and aplogizing don't hold your breath.

Quite. Liberals are the type to put their government in utter and complete power. Which doesn't work out very well, if you've read 1984 by any chance, or heard anything about the Soviet Union.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a supporter of the "pastor"'s you mentioned, religion is yet another expression of Order, like government is. Religion is not nearly as big a threat nowadays, however, with the rise of secularism, and the separation of church and state.

Neither am I an Anarchist. Government AND Religion can be syntropic if applied in small doses. After all, the difference between poison and cure is quantity and timing.

This world we live in is incredibly complex. Trying to control things overmuch is, frankly, out of our hands. Chaos is on the other hand,  a harbinger of Creativity and Expansion.

And that brings us to the heart of this debate, about whether Cerberus is an Entropic or Syntropic force in the universe. Renegade or Paragon, Chaos or Order.

Allying with the Alliance and/or Council is allying with Government, allying with Control, and thus seen as Paragon.

Conversely, Cerberus is private sector, completely out from under anyone's control but the Illusive Man's. And the benefits of that freedom is much in evidence.
-Heightened Technology, to the point of being able to bring the dead to life.
-Widespread intel
-Freedom of Operations (You may note that the Normandy never got locked down at the citadel this time around. The only downside to this is that we didn't get a repeat performance of Udina getting punched out )
-Rapid analysis of disparate events, as with the recognition of the Collector threat, and the Reaper threat in general.

Generally such a difference between the two extremes of Order and Chaos takes longer to notice a difference in. The Culture gripped by Order will slowly slip into stagnation, having bound itself ever tighter with extraraneous laws, economic and social safety nets, and other such mockeries of the natural order.
Whereas the Culture that allows Chaos to have a sizable margin in which to run free will show much increased economic and technological progression. (This is TRUELY progressive, unlike the popular meaning of progressive in politics today.)

With the conflux of events revolving around the Reapers, however, the changes are extremely apparent, even from the small perspective we are given in the Mass Effect Universe.

Had Order got it's way in Mass Effect 1, the normandy would have never escaped that docking bay, and the Reapers would have rampaged across the known galaxy.

Had Order got it's way in Mass Effect 2, Shepard would have remained rotting somewhere, or worse, in the Collector's hands, and the colony disappearences would likely have been chalked up to pirates and Cerberus, of all things.

To fight the rather large fleet of Reapers we were all given a glimpse at, in Mass Effect 3, attempting to fight them with Order would be ludicrus. That is effective mainly if things such as a chokepoint are present, as in the Battle of Thermopalea. Or if the side utilizing Order has an advantage in numbers and/or technology, of which we have neither, against the Reapers.

To destroy the Reapers, it is necessitated that we fight fire with fire. We utilize every weapon we can pick up to use against them, for example, the Collector Base and it's gold mine of technology. It is necessitated that new tactics be innovated, new technology, new alliances of species. It is necessitated that we not give the Reapers anything resembling a fair fight.

However we can stack any battle against them to our advantage must be done, even if it means sacrificing a thousand councils.

[KainrycKarr]

I support Cerberus' goals. I do not support a lot of their methods. I don't trust T.I.M.'s motives.



I won't destroy them, but I won't help them either. And I will stop an immoral operation if I come across it.

[ObserverStatus]

Alexandus wrote...


Quite. Liberals are the type to put their government in utter and complete power. Which doesn't work out very well, if you've read 1984 by any chance, or heard anything about the Soviet Union.

Funny, 1984 also had lots of references to violations of privacy rights and torture, both conservative policies.
Liberals and Conservatives simply try to put different powers into the government's hands, rather than one adding more than the other.  Between the two we have all the ingredients for a police state.  Unwarranted spying and torture are both used by Cerberus btw.  Funny how no matter who reads 1984 they only get the messages they wanted to hear.

Modifié par bobobo878, 10 mars 2010 - 06:35 .

[ObserverStatus]

Alexandus wrote...


Quite. Liberals are the type to put their government in utter and complete power. Which doesn't work out very well, if you've read 1984 by any chance, or heard anything about the Soviet Union.

Aw hell, this is the same post as before. Hit "quote" instead of "edit".

Modifié par bobobo878, 10 mars 2010 - 06:35 .

[TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain]

I support the Illusive Man, and agree to his methods. When my(Shepard's) arse was chapped(killed) , who came in and put some chapstick on it. Wasnt the Alliance or the Council. The Alliance took 2 entire games to final take the Reapers seriously while the Illusive Man connected the Dots so to speak. In the end he is shepards "Father" ( In the sense that he payed 4 billion to bring your arse back, nothing says love like watching 4 billion credits frag people to bits.)I will die again if it means helping the Illusive man and as you can see he may be a supremacist but all of the recruits he lists for you are not human cept for Zaeed. So Cerberus has my loyalty just wish I had a Cerberus Uniform to wear to work. XD

[Malysoun]

bobobo878 wrote...

Alexandus wrote...


Quite. Liberals are the type to put their government in utter and complete power. Which doesn't work out very well, if you've read 1984 by any chance, or heard anything about the Soviet Union.

Funny, 1984 also had lots of references to violations of privacy rights and torture, both conservative policies.
Liberals and Conservatives simply try to put different powers into the government's hands, rather than one adding more than the other.  Between the two we have all the ingredients for a police state.

Where the hell do you get privacy rights and torture as conservative doctrine?

Calls originating in or going out to foreign countries are not the same as internal calls.
Messing with someone's head is not the same thing as pulling fingernails.

The current administration/congress still haven't closed down Gitmo or stopped warrantless wiretaps.
And a lot of liberals seem to think it's ok to track gun owners and put them on registration lists, how is that not a violation of privacy?

I'm center leaning right, I used to be a democrat. Yet just about everyone I see claming to be liberal seem to think republican = rich baby eating bible thumping gun-toting rednecked moron who like to torture poor/foreign people for fun.

----------------

Back to the topic, no I do not support/endorse/trust TIM's Cerberus.
I do trust my paragon Shepard's Cerberus that advances humantity alongside other species.

What good is saving mankind if you lose your humanity in the process.

[ObserverStatus]

Malysoun wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Alexandus wrote...


Quite. Liberals are the type to put their government in utter and complete power. Which doesn't work out very well, if you've read 1984 by any chance, or heard anything about the Soviet Union.

Funny, 1984 also had lots of references to violations of privacy rights and torture, both conservative policies.
Liberals and Conservatives simply try to put different powers into the government's hands, rather than one adding more than the other.  Between the two we have all the ingredients for a police state.

Where the hell do you get privacy rights and torture as conservative doctrine?

Calls originating in or going out to foreign countries are not the same as internal calls.
Messing with someone's head is not the same thing as pulling fingernails.

The current administration/congress still haven't closed down Gitmo or stopped warrantless wiretaps.
And a lot of liberals seem to think it's ok to track gun owners and put them on registration lists, how is that not a violation of privacy?

I'm center leaning right, I used to be a democrat. Yet just about everyone I see claming to be liberal seem to think republican = rich baby eating bible thumping gun-toting rednecked moron who like to torture poor/foreign people for fun.

----------------

Back to the topic, no I do not support/endorse/trust TIM's Cerberus.
I do trust my paragon Shepard's Cerberus that advances humantity alongside other species.

What good is saving mankind if you lose your humanity in the process.

I wasn't defending Obama, rather I was referring to Cheney speeches at the Conservative Political Action Conference.  There are examples of people who contradict the republican stereotype you listed above, but they usually don't get very far in politics.

Modifié par bobobo878, 10 mars 2010 - 07:02 .

[ObserverStatus]

Modifié par bobobo878, 10 mars 2010 - 07:06 .