134 réponses à ce sujet

[sylvanaerie]

Ultimately the BIGGEST reason I see him letting the PC take charge is the player determines where to go and what to do. If Alistair was leading, it would be just we go through the same old paces each game. Since there are SO many paths, so many ways to play and its replay appeal is so high. How boring it would be same old game over and over. I've played through about 10 times now and STILL find new stuff to do depending on what skills my PC has.

[Vicious]

In the preset story of DAO the PC didn't exist, and Alistair the last Grey Warden, son of the famous king Maric, was man enough to take care of business on his own.



So to answer your question: Because he's not the hero, due to the PC's existence. If the PC did not exist, Alistair would take care of business, and if DaveG's comic is any indication, he'd also perform the ritual and nail Morrigan.



So either way it's a crappy plot contrivance. Either he's the 'chosen one' or he is hopelessly ineffectual.

[Creature 1]

Bratt1204 wrote...
 It seems as if the people that dislike him so, must be either be very insecure and feel threatened by his virtuous nature or are simply villainous individuals. I suspect there also seems to be hint of jealousy present (IMO).

Yes, I drown babies and eat kittens.  Or is it drown kittens and eat babies?  And I frequently find myself overwhelmed with jealousy of high-school boys.  Or not.  

[CalJones]

krylo wrote...
You know, reading all this I can't help but think there's an extremely heavy "I think Loghain is attractive and Alistair isn't" bias going on.  You're willing to forgive everything that Loghain does throughout the game in seconds, but Alistair is beyond forgiveness, or even understanding, for a couple of minutes of Petulence, and/or finally manning up and taking charge--like a nominee to be king SHOULD do?

It's not down to attractiveness (although yes, I am drawn to dark, saturnine men rather than clean-cut types, generally speaking). Alistair is attractive in his own way and I enjoy his romance up to a point.

But it's not just a couple of minutes of petulance, is it? He quits his beloved Grey Wardens in a huge fit of pique and is still angry at the celebration scene afterwards. Perhaps he's just disappointed in himself at that point, or perhaps he just hates the Warden for making a practical decision he doesn't agree with.

But as I've said, I think the main problem with Alistair is the lack of player dialogue options when dealing with him. I've never been horrible to him in a playthrough - he seens too nice a guy for that - and in the one game where my HN married Anora, I wouldn't let her have have him executed. When it comes to games I'm an obsessive-compulsive content miner and like to try almost every option, with the exclusion of being a jerk. In ME I'm happy to play a ruthless renegade Shepard but I'm still nice to my crew. And in DA I'm still nice to Alistair. I'm just disappointed there's no real opportunity to try and reason despite all you have gone through together.

I still think it's cold of him to dump the woman he professes to love in front of all their companions - but I guess I'll blame the cut-scene animators for that. Public dumpings are an absolute no. Some relationships have to end, but you handle that in private, and with sympathy. Alistair definitely deserves a punch on the chin for that.

Modifié par CalJones, 10 mars 2010 - 06:17 .

[Kaynos1972]

I hate Alistair i cant stand it's whinning, i cant believe they made the whole storyline revolve around that sissi.

[Xandurpein]

There is one thing that any male poster professing wonder how a particular male companion can be attractive to women should bear in mind. What makes a young male seem like a likable person to man can be different from what can make him likable to woman.

It's always amusing to watch young men trying to impress on women with the same type of lingo they use to impress their buddies and then not understand why it fails...

/Edit. While my characters don't always get along with Alistair, I think he is a very well written character that has lot more depth than just a 'whining loser' than some people claim.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 10 mars 2010 - 11:59 .

[Curlain]

Vicious wrote...

In the preset story of DAO the PC didn't exist, and Alistair the last Grey Warden, son of the famous king Maric, was man enough to take care of business on his own.

So to answer your question: Because he's not the hero, due to the PC's existence. If the PC did not exist, Alistair would take care of business, and if DaveG's comic is any indication, he'd also perform the ritual and nail Morrigan.

So either way it's a crappy plot contrivance. Either he's the 'chosen one' or he is hopelessly ineffectual.

This probably is a big reason for what is going on.  If it wasn't for the PC he would be the hero, but because of the PC, the character by necessity has to take a back seat so our character can be the hero

[Xandurpein]

Curlain wrote...

Vicious wrote...

In the preset story of DAO the PC didn't exist, and Alistair the last Grey Warden, son of the famous king Maric, was man enough to take care of business on his own.

So to answer your question: Because he's not the hero, due to the PC's existence. If the PC did not exist, Alistair would take care of business, and if DaveG's comic is any indication, he'd also perform the ritual and nail Morrigan.

So either way it's a crappy plot contrivance. Either he's the 'chosen one' or he is hopelessly ineffectual.

This probably is a big reason for what is going on.  If it wasn't for the PC he would be the hero, but because of the PC, the character by necessity has to take a back seat so our character can be the hero

It's sort of tragic isn't it. The whole story is perfect except for the the PC who messes things up...

[ejoslin]

Hmmm, I don't know. The Warden does an awful lot of "fixing" of his/her companions. Had it been Alistair and Ser Jory, the archdemon may have won.

[Xandurpein]

I wasn't being entirely serious at that. Even if I do like Alistair, I'm not sure he really has it in him to do everything and save the country without the player. If nothing else I doubt a guy who has so many demons of his own to deal with can be effective in sorting out everybody else around him.

The character is needed to fix everything, but it could be argued that things are better off with the character out of the picture at the end. Let Alistair marry Anora and let Loghain kill the Archdemon so the country can be healed.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 10 mars 2010 - 12:38 .

[Ken555]

ejoslin wrote...

Hmmm, I don't know. The Warden does an awful lot of "fixing" of his/her companions. Had it been Alistair and Ser Jory, the archdemon may have won.

I shudder to think of it.

[Drained Warrior]

How I see it, that in order to Alistair to rise up to occasion he needs a stronger person at his side to push him to right direction. Alistair as a character is exactly like Maric - and Maric had Loghain, who got him out of trouble and "hardened" him, but also at what cost.

Modifié par Drained Warrior, 10 mars 2010 - 03:47 .

[Bratt1204]

Creature 1 wrote...

Bratt1204 wrote...
 It seems as if the people that dislike him so, must be either be very insecure and feel threatened by his virtuous nature or are simply villainous individuals. I suspect there also seems to be hint of jealousy present (IMO).

Yes, I drown babies and eat kittens.  Or is it drown kittens and eat babies?  And I frequently find myself overwhelmed with jealousy of high-school boys.  Or not.  

I see you've moved past the denial stage in your life then 

[Lest]

adapt_king wrote...

What?! No... you're honestly telling me I'm the first "new user" that thought about Alistair like this? Why do girls even love him so much, anyway? IRL he's not the type of guy that would get any girls, mainly coz he'd never get the courage to ask any of them out.

Alistair fan-rage incoming.

Well, not rage, but y'know.

Anyway!

Alistair may be a bit of a sob, but he's a genuinley -belivable- character. He has his downsides (A little whiney, uncomfortable around women, ect) but after you strip away the surface of the insecure, joke-making clown, there's a honourable fighter in there.

Towards the end of the game, if you pick Alistair as king, his true personality shines through, leading Ferelden into battle with a suprising act of heroism.

It's a long time since I genuinley cared about a character in-game, but Alistair manages it flawlessly.

He's -realistic-, not some macho biker superhero who looks like he's smuggling watermelons up his arms.

[Sarah1281]

Well, that didn't work - he killed Loghain then declared himself king, after which he dumped my girl in front of the entire party, and then told her it was her idea to make him king.

How do you get that to happen? Whenever I have a hardened Alistair kill Loghain, Eamon always moves in and say it's decided that Alistair is King and Alistair always denies it and the choice is left up to the PC. Is that because I had Anora and Alistair agree to marry first? I know it won't happen since Alistair killed her father, but I can't imagine why else he won't take charge.

[errant_knight]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Well, that didn't work - he killed Loghain then declared himself king, after which he dumped my girl in front of the entire party, and then told her it was her idea to make him king.

How do you get that to happen? Whenever I have a hardened Alistair kill Loghain, Eamon always moves in and say it's decided that Alistair is King and Alistair always denies it and the choice is left up to the PC. Is that because I had Anora and Alistair agree to marry first? I know it won't happen since Alistair killed her father, but I can't imagine why else he won't take charge.

Alistair only makes himself king (if he kills Loghain) without you having the choice if he isn't in love with your PC, so either he wasn't at 'love' to begin with, or something happened before landsmeet to end the relationship. Well, that's if you're playing a human noble female. If you aren't, there's no option for you to suggest marrying Alistair if he's hardened and you aren't human. He wants to be king, and he makes it so.The option is there if he's unhardened, but he won't go for it. The landsmeet won't accept it, which he points out. However, you can keep from being dumped in the conversation afterwards even if you're a HNF, something I only found out recently. Some of the dialogue choices leading to no breakup have big disapproval, some don't, so you may have to replay it a few times.

Modifié par errant_knight, 10 mars 2010 - 07:35 .

[CalJones]

I've no idea - I was a bit surprised to say the least (but I guess it's good that a game can come with such surprises - even if they are unpleasant at times).

[ejoslin]

errant_knight wrote...

Alistair only makes himself king (if he kills Loghain) without you having the choice if he isn't in love with your PC, so either he wasn't at 'love' to begin with, or something happened before landsmeet to end the relationship. Well, that's if you're playing a human noble female. If you aren't, there's no option for you to suggest marrying Alistair if he's hardened and you aren't human. He wants to be king, and he makes it so.The option is there if he's unhardened, but he won't go for it. However, you can keep from being dumped in the conversation afterwards even if you're a HNF, something I only found out recently. Some of the dialogue choices leading to no breakup have big disapproval, some don't, so you may have to replay it a few times.

If you have Alistair execute Loghain, OR have him duel Loghain (same result), the only times that Alistair will NOT just accept being king is if he's in love with a HNF OR if it's arranged for him to marry Anora.  Otherwise, he just accepts.  He still blames the warden for making him king, however.

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 mars 2010 - 07:37 .

[Sarah1281]

He still blames the warden for making him king, however.

Maybe he was planning on not showing up but the PC drags him there? If he's not there, Anora should have any easy time taking the throne. It never seems to occur to him  what she plans for him, though. Eamon probably didn't want to scare him into not showing up and so never gave him a heads-up.

In my non-HNF games, I typically don't do the Alistair romance as I view being his mistress as demeaning and Zevran or Leliana don't dump you the minute they get the crown (how understandable that is depends on which origin you're playing).

So no romance but he still relies on the PC to make him king. I guess I'll have to try a version where he isn't engaged going into the Landsmeet. Although you'd think Alistair would realize that Anora might not want to marry the man who murdered her father since he can't even stand letting the man who indirectly killed HIS surrogate father to live.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 10 mars 2010 - 07:41 .

[Big_Choppa]

I think Alistair is hilarious at points. I put him and Morrigan in my party just to hear them quarrel all the time. Priceless!

[CalJones]

That character was a Dalish. They were at 100 love. I wasn't expecting him to make her queen, obviously - but I was expecting that I could choose to make Anora queen so Alistair could remain a warden (I even told him previously that I was supporting Anora). So the fact he decided he was king and then said my character had made him king really peed me off. Ah well, it's not a playthrough I'll carry over to Awakenings so no probs.

[errant_knight]

ejoslin wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Alistair only makes himself king (if he kills Loghain) without you having the choice if he isn't in love with your PC, so either he wasn't at 'love' to begin with, or something happened before landsmeet to end the relationship. Well, that's if you're playing a human noble female. If you aren't, there's no option for you to suggest marrying Alistair if he's hardened and you aren't human. He wants to be king, and he makes it so.The option is there if he's unhardened, but he won't go for it. However, you can keep from being dumped in the conversation afterwards even if you're a HNF, something I only found out recently. Some of the dialogue choices leading to no breakup have big disapproval, some don't, so you may have to replay it a few times.

If you have Alistair execute Loghain, OR have him duel Loghain (same result), the only times that Alistair will NOT just accept being king is if he's in love with a HNF OR if it's arranged for him to marry Anora.  Otherwise, he just accepts.  He still blames the warden for making him king, however.

So...that's what I said, right? Well, except for the Anora marriage, which I never do because it makes my flesh creep.

[ejoslin]

errant_knight wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Alistair only makes himself king (if he kills Loghain) without you having the choice if he isn't in love with your PC, so either he wasn't at 'love' to begin with, or something happened before landsmeet to end the relationship. Well, that's if you're playing a human noble female. If you aren't, there's no option for you to suggest marrying Alistair if he's hardened and you aren't human. He wants to be king, and he makes it so.The option is there if he's unhardened, but he won't go for it. However, you can keep from being dumped in the conversation afterwards even if you're a HNF, something I only found out recently. Some of the dialogue choices leading to no breakup have big disapproval, some don't, so you may have to replay it a few times.

If you have Alistair execute Loghain, OR have him duel Loghain (same result), the only times that Alistair will NOT just accept being king is if he's in love with a HNF OR if it's arranged for him to marry Anora.  Otherwise, he just accepts.  He still blames the warden for making him king, however.

So...that's what I said, right? Well, except for the Anora marriage, which I never do because it makes my flesh creep.

*grin* That's why I responded!  Because those are the TWO circumstances where he won't make himself king if he chops off Loghain's head, also to make clear that in any other circumstance, he WILL make himself king, there's no chance to make Anora queen.  If you said that, I missed it.  And if you said that, I apologize if you took my post as an insult!  

[CalJones]

Alistair gets to marry Anora in almost all my playthroughs. I see it as the easiest way to unite Fereldan and ensure they are getting the best of both worlds: a strong, competent queen who is respected by the nobles and foreign dignitaries, and a king of the Theirin bloodline.

My HNM has married Anora - I liked that ending too - but Alistair + Anora is part of my ultimate happy ending game.

[SurelyForth]

ejoslin wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Alistair only makes himself king (if he kills Loghain) without you having the choice if he isn't in love with your PC, so either he wasn't at 'love' to begin with, or something happened before landsmeet to end the relationship. Well, that's if you're playing a human noble female. If you aren't, there's no option for you to suggest marrying Alistair if he's hardened and you aren't human. He wants to be king, and he makes it so.The option is there if he's unhardened, but he won't go for it. However, you can keep from being dumped in the conversation afterwards even if you're a HNF, something I only found out recently. Some of the dialogue choices leading to no breakup have big disapproval, some don't, so you may have to replay it a few times.

If you have Alistair execute Loghain, OR have him duel Loghain (same result), the only times that Alistair will NOT just accept being king is if he's in love with a HNF OR if it's arranged for him to marry Anora.  Otherwise, he just accepts.  He still blames the warden for making him king, however.

He doesn't make himself king if he's not hardened.  If he is hardened, he doesn't blame the Warden for making him king, he just points it out, whether you did or not. He does lay the blame on you if he's not hardened (which he shouldn't do if he demands to be king to see Loghain brought to justice).