134 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

SurelyForth wrote...
I'm talking about going in with 0 Coercion and base-level Cunning. You will fail the persuade check to have him marry Anora if you don't pre-arrange it and you will fail the persuade check to marry Alistair unless he loves you. He'll ask you why you're suggesting it, and even after explaining that you're the Teryna of Highever he turns you down. 

If the persuade check was just for the Landsmeet, it would fail even if he does love the PC. Since it doesn't, that tells me the check is for him and not the Landsmeet.

That makes me feel a tiny bit better, even if I think Landsmeet Alistair is a bit schizophrenic and needs more management than role-playing.

[Monica21]

SurelyForth wrote...
I think it's because he really, really doesn't want to marry someone he doesn't love. I think the persuade is totally for him and not the Landsmeet.  They never protest any suggestion you make- but he does.

Shouldn't that make the persuade check more difficult, especially with a hardened Alistair? For anyone who's modding, I'd love to see something like this. Just throwing it out there. ;-)

(And I tried to tack this to my other reply, but I couldn't get to it.)

[CBGB]

I'm an Alistair fan, and while I can't comment on his romantic appeal, my PC appreciates him both as a friend and compatriot.

I don't find him whiney, save when he goes through a crisis at the Landsmeet... in fact, his humor strikes me as a smart combination of churlish and self-effacing. The very first time we see him, he's sassy with the mage receiving his message: "Right. This is me, harassing you in the name of the Reverend Mother."

From a gaming perspective, I also find him very useful, especially once he develops talents as a Templar/Champion.

On the most recent debate, over the potential marriage to Anora, this sounds right:

SurelyForth wrote...
I think it's because he really, really doesn't want to marry someone he doesn't love. I think the persuade is totally for him and not the Landsmeet.  They never protest any suggestion you make- but he does. 

Oddly, the match may actually be a good one as far as the kingdom is concerned. Anora would rule over daily matters with a firm hand, which Alistair would welcome with a welcome dose of compassion.

He can handle her. Anora would have devoured the early-game Alistair, but he's stronger and more directed by the time you arrive at the potential wedding. Who knows? They might even grow to like each other.

[ejoslin]

SurelyForth wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Naw, I don't want to test it THAT badly  But why would a Cousland marriage fail, whether or not he loved the warden?  I don't get that at all.  I see Cousands as a powerful political family, and THAT is what allows Alistair to marry her, not his feelings for her.  His feelings are largely irrelevant.  Both he and Anora accept that.  Alistair even explains that to a non-HNF.  Even if the coercion check is for him (which I don't believe, but for the sake of argument), how does that make the marriage any less political?  

*sigh* I seriously edited that post, but unfortunately, it's quoted in it's really bad entirety here :happy:

I think it's because he really, really doesn't want to marry someone he doesn't love. I think the persuade is totally for him and not the Landsmeet.  They never protest any suggestion you make- but he does. 

I don't think so, or else you wouldn't need the persuade check as a HNF at Love.  And he does say that the Landsmeet would not accept a non-HNF if you try to rule beside him as a non-HNF.  He accepts as king, he doesn't get to choose who he marries -- and marriage would have to be political. It's JUST as political as his marriage to Anora or the HNM marriage to Anora.  Both Alistair and Anora will acknowledge this.

But you know, I understand wanting Alistair to only accept a HNF he loves.  And there are mods out there to make any race eligible to be his bride. I get that.  I really do.  I just don't happen to agree that the game, as intended, was going to allow a king to marry for Love.  THAT is not important in this situation, though it's nice.  

Anyway, I think I'm repeating myself at this point.  So I concede all further points to everyone else!  Why not:wub:

[SurelyForth]

Monica21 wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...
I think it's because he really, really doesn't want to marry someone he doesn't love. I think the persuade is totally for him and not the Landsmeet.  They never protest any suggestion you make- but he does.

Shouldn't that make the persuade check more difficult, especially with a hardened Alistair? For anyone who's modding, I'd love to see something like this. Just throwing it out there. ;-)

(And I tried to tack this to my other reply, but I couldn't get to it.)

This is how I see it working. Hardened Alistair would prefer to only marry someone he loves. If the PC is not someone he loves, or if you try to get him to marry Anora, you have to pass a persuade check which is (in theory) like saying "This is a sound strategic move." Hardened Alistair will agree to that, if you pitch it well enough, because he can see the benefits there and, since he's also willing to be more open-minded about his own personal happiness, it can be assumed that he's fine with the arranged marriage because he won't have as many qualms looking elsewhere for love.

[SurelyForth]

I don't think so, or else you wouldn't need the persuade check as a HNF at Love.  And he does say that the Landsmeet would not accept a non-HNF if you try to rule beside him as a non-HNF.  He accepts as king, he doesn't get to choose who he marries -- and marriage would have to be political. It's JUST as political as his marriage to Anora or the HNM marriage to Anora.  Both Alistair and Anora will acknowledge this.

There's a [persuade] there no matter what, but it cannot be failed if his approval is 100 Love while it will if you are at 100 Friendly and don't have a high enough coercion.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 11 mars 2010 - 03:21 .

[Sarah1281]

I think it's because he really, really doesn't want to marry someone he doesn't love. I think the persuade is totally for him and not the Landsmeet. They never protest any suggestion you make- but he does.

The Landsmeet doesn't have to say anything because he immediately shoots the ideas down. If he were to say 'Why not be my Queen, elven mage?' then they would intercede, or at least Eamon would as he was the one to not let you use Dog on Loghain. They have spokespeople and it's only when they don't shoot down impractical suggestions that the other nobles would need to point out the obvious.

[Monica21]

SurelyForth wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...
I think it's because he really, really doesn't want to marry someone he doesn't love. I think the persuade is totally for him and not the Landsmeet.  They never protest any suggestion you make- but he does.

Shouldn't that make the persuade check more difficult, especially with a hardened Alistair? For anyone who's modding, I'd love to see something like this. Just throwing it out there. ;-)

(And I tried to tack this to my other reply, but I couldn't get to it.)

This is how I see it working. Hardened Alistair would prefer to only marry someone he loves. If the PC is not someone he loves, or if you try to get him to marry Anora, you have to pass a persuade check which is (in theory) like saying "This is a sound strategic move." Hardened Alistair will agree to that, if you pitch it well enough, because he can see the benefits there and, since he's also willing to be more open-minded about his own personal happiness, it can be assumed that he's fine with the arranged marriage because he won't have as many qualms looking elsewhere for love.

I'm still not quite able to wrap my head around, what I'm seeing more and more as, the crap game mechanic that is the Landsmeet. It's far too easy to pass the Persuade check. If Alistair is thinking about politics at all, then that persuade check should be incredibly difficult to pass, and only then if he loves you. If you romance him, he's been thinking about the relationship and what the potential outcomes could be. If you don't choose to marry him at the Landsmeet, he breaks up because you can't provide an heir and he isn't wrong that he needs one.

I'm fine with the idea that you're essentially talking him into it, but if you're at +10 approval and he knows there's no chance you'll have an heir, then why is he agreeing to marry you? At the very least, a hardened Alistair should say, "Thanks but no thanks. I'll find my own happiness."

Modifié par Monica21, 11 mars 2010 - 03:26 .

[Emerald Melios]

adapt_king wrote...

Hey I've played through this game again and again... and I just don't get it... why is this guy such a huge ****?

It's no wonder he's a virgin... if he was IRL he'd be a virgin AND unmarried forever (coz of his personality).

I think getting shipped off to a monastery by a resentful noblewoman ravaged his self-esteem.

[AnniLau]

(I think she may be making out with his nose but, ya know... )