58 réponses à ce sujet

[Fishy]

When you fight her?Considering that she save your life so you can stop the blight and send Morrigan with you for the ritual.Do you really think she wanted the Warden dead during the fight?Plus it's clear that she can't be killed by normal odds.

She does not want to fight the Warden.I don't think she's begging for her life here.More like it's a waste of time to fight you or even kill you.

[Haasth]

She definitely isn't dead if you do slay her. Neither does she seem willing to kill the Warden... She seems capable of telling the future and knows you're necessary to stop the Blight I suppose. (At least when you first meet her she definitely seems aware that you will do great things and that the other two are 'sadly unimportant to the greater schemes' or some such)



There is more going on that meets the eye, that is for sure. We don't know the exact motives from Morrigan nor Flemeth... I think it is stated that she does kill Morrigan though if you decide you'll leave Flemeth be and lie to Morrigan that she is dead.

[Herr Uhl]

Haasth wrote...

There is more going on that meets the eye, that is for sure. We don't know the exact motives from Morrigan nor Flemeth... I think it is stated that she does kill Morrigan though if you decide you'll leave Flemeth be and lie to Morrigan that she is dead.

Nope, it is not.

[Janni-in-VA]

I'm with Herr Uhl. If you leave Flemeth alive, you never see her again.

[CybAnt1]

She definitely isn't dead if you do slay her.

First playthrough, I didn't slay her, she just told me to lie to Morrigan that I did, gave me the grimoire, and I did. (OK confession: that was after I tried to kill her, she turned into a dragon and kicked my arse back to another part of the week, and reloaded.) She said she might be back or might not. BTW, Wiki confirms, there is no ending that says she came back - at least within the timeframe of the epilogue - for Morrigan. 

Second playthrough: OK, i had a little bit more tweaking on my side, plus advance prep, and took her down. She looked awful dead to me. Of course, we are dealing with a being that seems able to transfer its soul to other bodies and it might not necessarily have to be one of her own bio-children (although that seems preferred), so yeah, who really knows? 

There are a lot of question marks remaining for the motivations & purposes of both mother & daughter. 

Morrigan will NEVER tell you the full story of what the DR is for ... you just have to accept it and that it will save your life (or someone else's). But you can find out getting pregnant by a GW was all part of Flemeth's plan from moment one. Why DOES Flemeth essentially set everything in motion for you to end the Blight if she's ... evil? 

There's something more going on ... I don't think we'll find out in Awakenings (although I was at least hoping to run into people who had SEEN Morrigan at some point) ... probably the sequel, or XP2. 

[Cazlee]

Flemmeth knows why you've returned to her hut before you get there. She's waiting for you and she seems to be quite a few steps ahead of the warden and Morrigan. Since Flemmeth will attack you if you tell her that you are keeping the grimoire for yourself, her main goal isn't her survival or your survival (for the dark the ritual), it seems to be to ensure that the grimoire is delivered to Morrigan.

Editx2: Also, when you meet Flemmeth again after Ostagar, she talks about the "true evil" that is behind the blight, Alistair interjects thinking that she's speaking of the archdemon, but she might have had something else in mind. I don't remember what she says exactly, but she mentions the word evil at least twice and it made me see her more of a good or neutral figure that might eventually help the GW defeat the driving force behind the darkspawn.

Modifié par Cazlee, 09 mars 2010 - 04:10 .

[Sarah1281]

Although since Morrigan seems to know all about the ritual even if you don't give her Flemeth's real grimoire or even the one Irving has, it makes you wonder why that was so important.

[Monica21]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Although since Morrigan seems to know all about the ritual even if you don't give her Flemeth's real grimoire or even the one Irving has, it makes you wonder why that was so important.

It never seemed to me that the grimoire had anything to do with the DR. Morrigan seems to think it's what will allow her to keep from being taken over by Flemeth at some point. The DR is something that Flemeth told Morrigan about earlier.

edt: Cazlee, that's interesting about the grimoire. I always thought Flemeth was a little too nonchalant about potentially being killed, but her plans for Morrigan are definitelly more than we know about. And after hearing about Awakenings I assumed that the "true evil" is the antagonist.

Modifié par Monica21, 09 mars 2010 - 04:11 .

[DJ0000]

Another interesting thing that Flemeth mentions is that "This Blight's threat is greater than they realise".



Seeing as she calls it a blight it is obvious that an Archdemon is present but she says that it is more than they realise, meaning that the Archdemon is not necessarily the greatest threat.



I wonder if this is what Awakening will be about.

[asaiasai]

I really do not think i am as powerful as i think i am, i am no where even close to playing in the same league as Flemeth. She operates on a plane of conciousness that as a mere mortal i can not fathom, nor can i even consider for a second that i am in the presence of anything other than a god. I think Flemeth is a left over from a earlier age when magic and spirits were much more wild and prevelent than they are in the current DAO world. I think Flemeth is kind of like a safeguard, a watcher, manipulating people and events to ensure the survival of the goodness in the world. While not being powerful enough to prevent, for lack of better terms, the **** hitting the fan, she just makes sure that no matter how much **** is flying around the fan keeps turning. Her saving, assisting and recognizing the wardens is exactly what she is here to do. I hope that in later games the decision you made concerning Flemeth has serious repercussions, as in supposedly killing or if even possible killing Flemeth becomes a DOH! moment later on, or at least makes it a little bit harder on the offending character.

In answer to the OP question, Flemeth is in no more trouble from you thas a house cat is playing with a mouse, and afterwhile the cat got bored and sauntered off. It is fortunate for you the GW that Flemeth will try and spare your ego by a showy fight followed by a spectacular death scene when the novelty wears off. Flemeth rules man!!

Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 10 mars 2010 - 03:15 .

[Vicious]

I think being possessed by a Fade spirit [of what?] means that her intentions are alien and unknowable at this point.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

It is a demon that possesses Flemeth. As to what type of demon, who knows. maybe some demon outside the hierarchy. Or maybe it's an ancient pride demon.

[Fishy]

That exactly my though asai.The GW seem to be manipulated from the beginning.Was it truly a coincidence that Flemeth was waiting for me with the scroll when searching for it in the forest?That she saved my life ?That she seemed nonchalent when confronting her about her plan with Morrigan?



After i *kill * her .. It's just gave me this feeling that it's was completly useless to do so.That *killing* Flemeth would change nothing . That Morrigan was maybe in danger but that would not stop Flemeth true goal anyway.That she knew about the future regardless of your choice.





Dragon age 2 ... Better answer this.

[Balgin Stondraeg]

Personaly I suspected that it was all a set up. When Morrigan asked me to slay Flemeth I wondered "Who is asking me this? Is it Flemeth or Morrigan?" I even considered the potential that Morrigan was already possessed (and in actuality Flemeth) and was sending me back to remove the evidence. Flemeth's motives are so awkward to fathom that it's best to keep a very open mind about them.

[Nerdage]

I'd like to think that she is dead and that morrigan's intentions are her own, could be interesting if flemeth was telling the truth about wanting you to stop the blight and the dark ritual was all morrigan's doing, she seems to crafty to be serving her mother even after she's 'dead'. If only the grimoire where canon by the time she offers the ritual it could open up some interesting possibilities for morrigan's plan, but I guess all we can do is wait for it to come up in the story later on..

[melkathi]

Cazlee wrote...

Since Flemmeth will attack you if you tell her that you are keeping the grimoire for yourself, her main goal isn't her survival or your survival (for the dark the ritual), it seems to be to ensure that the grimoire is delivered to Morrigan.

I still believe that Morrigan did not know about the ritual when she first joined you and only found out through Flemeth's grimoire. That her saying that the Dark Ritual was her goal all along is either her trying to hide that she wants to save a friend's life (yours) or the writers suddenly realizing that the player has the choice never to become friends with Morrigan, never go face Flemeth and thus never get the grimoire to Morrigan

[ObserverStatus]

Flemeth is going to skip a generation and posses Morrigan's baby.

[krylo]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

It is a demon that possesses Flemeth. As to what type of demon, who knows. maybe some demon outside the hierarchy. Or maybe it's an ancient pride demon.

I don't think it's a demon at all.  I think it's the spirit of the Kocari Wilds, much like The Lady.  Morrigan gives some hints to this when you ask her about her mother.  It was in the Wilds that she found the spirit and it made her strong.  Her nature is that of the wilds.  Etc. etc.  Or an Old God's spirit but that's a pet theory for another day/thread.

As to the rest of the topic: I think you people are giving Flemeth too much credit.

In the beginning the blight is a risk to her.  She says so herself.  She saves the Grey Wardens because she's been alive long enough to know that if the Grey Wardens die there's no stopping the Blight.  So she saves the Wardens and sends Morrigan out with them to keep them alive, and so that she can bring back an Old God's spirit.

When the Wardens confront her, well killing the Wardens is hardly ideal, but neither is losing her physical body and being thrown back to the fade, or wherever it is forest spirits go when devoid of a physical vessel, sans a good amount of her power--which is what Morrigan believes will happen after reading Flemeth's Black Grimoire and learning what her mother is.  

So she has to decide whether she wants to take her chances hiding from the blight and MAYBE losing her physical body before the Orlesian Wardens can get in/sneak some people in to kill the ArchDemon, OR she can for sure lose her physical body right then and there to the Wardens.

The choice seems pretty clear.

Modifié par krylo, 11 mars 2010 - 01:50 .

[thegreateski]

She's laughing it up in the Fade.

[Gill Kaiser]

krylo wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

It is a demon that possesses Flemeth. As to what type of demon, who knows. maybe some demon outside the hierarchy. Or maybe it's an ancient pride demon.

I don't think it's a demon at all.  I think it's the spirit of the Kocari Wilds, much like The Lady.  Morrigan gives some hints to this when you ask her about her mother.  It was in the Wilds that she found the spirit and it made her strong.  Her nature is that of the wilds.  Etc. etc.

The distinction is purely academic. Spirits and demons are of the same ilk, and are distinguished only by intent.

[krylo]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

krylo wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

It is a demon that possesses Flemeth. As to what type of demon, who knows. maybe some demon outside the hierarchy. Or maybe it's an ancient pride demon.

I don't think it's a demon at all.  I think it's the spirit of the Kocari Wilds, much like The Lady.  Morrigan gives some hints to this when you ask her about her mother.  It was in the Wilds that she found the spirit and it made her strong.  Her nature is that of the wilds.  Etc. etc.

The distinction is purely academic. Spirits and demons are of the same ilk, and are distinguished only by intent.

I would normally agree, but spirits of places seem to be rather different.  Fade Spirits all seem to be connected to an emotion of some sort. Sloth, Pride, Rage, Valor, Faith, etc.  The Lady of the Forest, however, is not connected to a human emotion.  She's connected to a place.  A place that, more over, exists in the physical realm--not the fade.

I think there's a distinction between forest (and perhaps plains/mountain/etc. as well) spirits and fade spirits.

[Gill Kaiser]

What distinguishes a demon is their willingness to feed off the living in order to experience the mortal realm. This manifests as a propensity for feeding off parts of the psyche, leading to the heirarchy of common demons that we see in DA:O. That doesn't mean that emotions are all demons feed off... there may be unique, powerful demons/spirits that have learnt to feed off things that the common demons never considered.
I believe the Lady of the Forest was one such outlier, a spirit who perhaps feeds off (or at least is sustained by) an entire forest's-worth of plants and animals. Likewise, I believe Flemeth's spirit/demon is a unique specimen.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 11 mars 2010 - 02:04 .

[NightmarezAbound]

Morrigan says when she offers the Dark Ritual,"why do you think Flemeth sent me?" it was Morrigan and Flemeths plan to acquire the soul of the Old God, for what purpose we do not know, yet. Flemeth wanted two things, the end of the blight and the force behind it, and the Soul of the Old God. Untainted, pure to be reborn and shaped and nurtured into who knows what.



And I would love to see the GW run into a reborn Flemeth, can see the conversation.

F: "Child, you have potential, I haven't had that much fun in ages."

GW "So You're not Mad?"

F: "well, that depends on who you are talking to. (inserting Flemeth chuckle)"

[Gill Kaiser]

Yeah, I hope Flemeth and Morrigan both reappear in some capacity in DA2.

[Sarah1281]

If you lie to Morrigan about 'killing' Flemeth, does she still have the sisters conversation with you?