1067 réponses à ce sujet

[Daeion]

Gorn Kregore wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Gorn Kregore wrote...

Daeion wrote...
it's too easy to save your entire crew.

Yeah sure if you check the wiki for everything you need to do.

Or if you use your brain, guess that's beyond you.

Speak for yourself lol

Why would you even use a wiki, that ruins the fun of figuring something out for yourself.

[JaegerBane]

Daeion wrote...

Really?  They explained why people loose him?  WTB link.

I don't have the link. I think it ws Dusty who mentioned it a while back. There's a guy wandering around these forums called Severan - he was the one who drew my attention to it.

[AtreiyaN7]

Shavon wrote...

Soban wrote...

To me, the core of RPG is Story and making decisions that effect that story. So I say give me more story and more decisions to be made and the game will be more RPG-like. Take away leveling completely and turn it into a FPS. Whatever, just give me the story and decisions to be made.

ME2 allows us to make decisions, but the impact of those decisions don't really seem to carry much weight.  So far, all of our decisions to carry over from ME1 were silly things like keeoing Conrad Verner alive or giving Tali geth data on her personal mission.  What effect have those had?  A few extra lines, woohoo:wizard:.

Me2 is at best an interactive story, pre-written, with the illusion of an rpg/shooter.

I like your definition of RPG, and ope they will return to more of the elements they left behind in ME1.

Ah, and I'm sure that "silly things" like saving the rachni queen won't impact ME3...nope...that visit from her agent on Ilium must have meant nothing at all. *sarcasm*

[JaegerBane]

ThePatriot101 wrote...

Of course you could also write Bioware to tell them they should have that option.  But, given the complexity it poses to the game's development and design, I'd say you're looking at probably a minimum of four years of development to make sure that everything works out and gives you that freedom.  And then at the end of those years they would need enough so that the game's sales would justify all that effort.  That may turn you on, but it turns me off as overwhelming.

Exactly. This is what I've never been able to get my head around the purist's perspective. It's almost as if they aren't aware that they're no longer playing PnP.

[OasisForever1991]

Casey Hudson quote:

"Mass Effect 1 is a RPG with shooter elements"

"Mass Effect 2 is a RPG with even MORE shooter elements"

ME2: that's the game Bioware has made. It's the same thing but with better combat.

IMO: ME1 has the feeling of the Mass Effect universe and also it makes you feel even MORE connected with the story and the characters and everything Mass Effect than ME2 did. ME2 felt so "automatic". It was hard for me to feel the sense of exploration and the greater feeling of being Commander Shepard. And I say "being" Shepard because I didn't really feel like "I" was Shepard or you know that "this is my character" in ME2 because of this "atuomatic" (in a way) story.

ME2 cannot come close to the feeling ME1 gave you about being in the Normandy and exploring the universe, running around Noveria for the first time and saying to yourself and feeling "oh god, I hope i didn't like miss anything" and also Noveria felt so big kinda and actually "cold" or ariving on the The Big C for the first time and actually feeling Humans are aprat of this Galactic society, trying to get a foot hold in this great we just dicovered.

For me it all comes down to this:

People will make these threads because of little things (atleast for them) that don't live up to a RPG or a RPG with even MORE shooter elements (ME2). And ask "why" or "whree" is everything. But for me it's all about the feeling. Because I never got any REAL feeling from a video game untill ME1 and I hated to see that go in ME2 and that's the only thing I cared about was the MASS EFFECT FEELING of this great SCi-FI Isaac Asimov high minded novel video game that is Mass Effect 1.

And people can't say that ME2 isn't a RPG with shooter elements because I got the freaking Project Director telling us what game they have made. And they know MORE than we do about what Mass Effect 1 and 2 is and what they have made. Enough is enougth people call it what ever you want, we know what Mass Effect 2 IS. And the only I didn't like was it didn't give me that Mass Effect FEELING. It is not about weapons or clothes or custimization or whatever. Bioware has told us what ME2 is. ME2 is what it is a RPG with even MORE shooter elements (and it isn't going to change).

[Sylvius the Mad]

JaegerBane wrote...

ThePatriot101 wrote...

Of course you could also write Bioware to tell them they should have that option.  But, given the complexity it poses to the game's development and design, I'd say you're looking at probably a minimum of four years of development to make sure that everything works out and gives you that freedom.  And then at the end of those years they would need enough so that the game's sales would justify all that effort.  That may turn you on, but it turns me off as overwhelming.

Exactly. This is what I've never been able to get my head around the purist's perspective. It's almost as if they aren't aware that they're no longer playing PnP.

BioWare does make games that accomodate me.  They have.  Every time except for ME.

I'm trying to ensure they don't drift off too far in that direction.

[Jaysonie]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

ThePatriot101 wrote...

Of course you could also write Bioware to tell them they should have that option.  But, given the complexity it poses to the game's development and design, I'd say you're looking at probably a minimum of four years of development to make sure that everything works out and gives you that freedom.  And then at the end of those years they would need enough so that the game's sales would justify all that effort.  That may turn you on, but it turns me off as overwhelming.

Exactly. This is what I've never been able to get my head around the purist's perspective. It's almost as if they aren't aware that they're no longer playing PnP.

BioWare does make games that accomodate me.  They have.  Every time except for ME.

I'm trying to ensure they don't drift off too far in that direction.

Remeber the games for everyone, not just you.

[TJSolo]

JaegerBane wrote...

ThePatriot101 wrote...

Of course you could also write Bioware to tell them they should have that option.  But, given the complexity it poses to the game's development and design, I'd say you're looking at probably a minimum of four years of development to make sure that everything works out and gives you that freedom.  And then at the end of those years they would need enough so that the game's sales would justify all that effort.  That may turn you on, but it turns me off as overwhelming.

Exactly. This is what I've never been able to get my head around the purist's perspective. It's almost as if they aren't aware that they're no longer playing PnP.

What ThePatriot101 wrote and who he wrote it to has nothing to do with the "purist's persective" and "they" you speak of.
It is a direct comment to one mad person.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Jaysonie wrote...

Remeber the games for everyone, not just you.

But my preferences are the only ones that matter to me.

BioWare clearly can make games that satisfy my criteria while remaining a viable company, because they've done it before.

[JaegerBane]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
BioWare does make games that accomodate me.  They have.  Every time except for ME.

I'm trying to ensure they don't drift off too far in that direction.

What you're asking for has never been provided by any cRPG. No Company has ever produced a cRPG that gives you total control over what you say.

The problem is the kind of comments being mentioned here are the kind of whackjob stuff that the design team never hears about from anywhere but these weird purist threads.

Bioware aren't just making games for you, Sylvius. Very few people could give a flying **** about half the stuff you're painting as essential.

[TJSolo]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Jaysonie wrote...

Remeber the games for everyone, not just you.

But my preferences are the only ones that matter to me.

BioWare clearly can make games that satisfy my criteria while remaining a viable company, because they've done it before.

You're not asking for anything except full sentences of what your character will say because you find the shortend structure inaccurate to what Shepard does say.

An odd request considering that you stated when a text and unspoken sentence doesn't fit within the lines of your character you are able to interpret to fit.
Yet the truncated text coupled with a spoken sentence make it so you can't interpret it to fit your character.

It is clear that both Bioware has unspoken and spoken lines in games that sometimes will not fit your view of your character, thus not always catering to your preference.
What is holding you back from interpreting a spoken line to fit?

[Darkhour]

TJSolo wrote...

Except that ME2 still has you put points in intimidate/charm just in a slightly different fashion.
Every class gains extra percentages of Paragon and Renegade via their respective Mastery skill tree.
The skills still send Shepard to charm school the same way intimidate/charm does. Only in the skill tree is added to health and class skill.

Slightly different? As in, I can still use red/blue dialog without putting any points into a mastery skill and it gives you points to both renegade and paragon, instead of just one? If you consider that a slight difference then what is your gripe anyway?

Your options were not bring a tech or be broke. Your options would be bring a tech, be a tech, or you can't open that box. 

Appearantly, the only actual techs are Legion and Tali. I just threw Miranda in there because well... you'd be **** out of luck if you needed a tech early game. And what boxes? There aren't odd boxes of weapons and armor lying around everywhere in mass effect two. You just scan for upgrades and pick stuff up. The reasons to hack/bypass are to advance through a mission and get money which made up +50% of your total cash. If you can consider Miranda, Garrus, Thane or Mordin techies, when they have nothing definitively tech about them then why is it so hard to think that Shephard should be able to open and damned door?

ME1 had character achievments(75% of main story) based on how much a player used x character and there was a meter showing biotic, tech, and combat balance of your selected team.

That meter showed class layout, per the manual, but it had no reflection on practical usage. Garrus was not more soldiery than Tali. Ashely was not any stronger than Kaidan in a firefight. It was like she had Invulnerable-lite. The only character who was actually strong was Wrex who was a better soldier than Ashely in additon to being a better biotic than Kaidan. And everyone of your squadmates could use every single weapon, which kinda defeated the purpose of Ashley being a soldier and subsequently making her the least useful member. In ME2 they deversified the squad somewhat even though they kinda left Jacob hanging alittle.

ME2 has power combo achievements(low number each) based on what powers you can use plus the complementary one from the teammate. Of the 10 loyalty missions 9 of them require the player to being a certain teammate. There is also a mission that has character requirements of its own.
There is still some control or mechanic influencing what characters a player cna bring for some portion of the game.

Yeah, but nobody would want to not bring Jacob on a mission to find Jacob's father. It's nowhere near the same, but I think you already know this and just grasping at straws. 

I also think I should note that I could give a rats ass about achievements. I don't play ME1 or 2 to turn a greyed out icon into a colorful icon. I still have greyed achievements on ME1 because I always switch my squad up and I've never played a tech class so far in ME1. If you get your kicks off of frivolous devices like achievements to make an easy game easier, so be it.

Pointless. No.
Frivolous No
Illconcieved. Again no.

Yes, having to put skills into intimidate/charm was pointless.
Yes, having to bring a tech in ME1 was frivolous
Yes, the inventory system was illconceived.

Did ME2 get cleaned up and improved that much over ME1? That is debatable. One can read the forums on any given day to see a stickied Improvement needed thread with 80+ pages along with 3 or so threads on the first page with complaints.

People complaining about improvements hardly counts for anything. People who want to ruin the game with pointless, frivolous nonsense can scream at the top of their lungs all they want. That's what minorities do. Bioware is in the 21st century. They aren't going back to the stone age in game design. You might as well deal with it.

[Darkhour]

JKoopman wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Just like how Shepard is suddenly able to bypass security and hack computers regardless of class. Hey, who needs a tech specialist anymore?

Yeah, either bringing Miranda on every mission until I get Tali or Legion or be broke and not able to afford fuel, probes or any upgrades from merchants sounds like a great idea.   Thanks for bringing up yet another improvement: Not having to always take particular people with you to access stuff.

I know. I hate how in my fantasy RPGs I always have to either learn lock-picking or take a thief with me if I want to open all those locked chests and doors. I mean, why can't I just open them without some frivolous and ill-conceived gameplay mechanic?

[/sarcasm]

On an unrelated note, why is it that most of the people in support of the increased focus on shooting and action in ME2 seem to sound like ignorant 12 year old a-holes? Is there a possible correlation there?

Now that was post is pure irony.

[Sylvius the Mad]

JaegerBane wrote...

What you're asking for has never been provided by any cRPG. No Company has ever produced a cRPG that gives you total control over what you say.

I'm not asking for that.  Why does anyone ever think I'm asking for that?

I'm asking for dialogue options where the only explicit content is visible to me before I choose it.  That's all.

Every BioWare game except for Mass Effect has given me that.

TJSolo wrote...

What is holding you back from interpreting a spoken line to fit?

Because the game makes that content explicit.  I can't just rewrite the game without possibly contradicting future events.

If that content is implicit, then the game won't assume it's true one way or the other.  If Shepard actually says something I don't expect, then the game might then react to that, with characters referring back to Shepard's utterance of that line.  A line I didn't want Shepard to say.  If I just retcon that line away, that doesn't change that the game still thinks it happened.

But if the game doesn't add in lines that I didn't choose, then the game won't react to that non-existent content.

This isn't complicated.

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

But my preferences are the only ones that matter to me.

Ah yes personal preferences. We have dismissed that regarding any significance in the larger picture.

Modifié par Fluffeh Kitteh, 10 mars 2010 - 11:31 .

[adembroski11]

DarthReavus wrote...

Dead horse ring any bells?

It's not a dead horse unless ME3 comes out without due consideration to the people who'd like a bit less railroading in the missions. I fully support every one of these threads, even if I don't agree with assertions made in them. People should speak their mind, loudly and often, and hopefully Bioware will have the information necessary to make a Mass Effect 3 everyone can love.

[TJSolo]

Darkhour wrote...

Slightly different? As in, I can still use red/blue dialog without putting any points into a mastery skill and it gives you points to both renegade and paragon, instead of just one? If you consider that a slight difference then what is your gripe anyway?

You are not going to fill your Paragon/Renegade in ME2 without using the skills attached to you Mastery.
It was not a gripe it is a fact that the skills of charm/intimidate are still in ME2 just in a more condensed form.
Good thing instead of being optional choices in ME1 they are spoonfed to you in ME2.

Appearantly, the only actual techs are Legion and Tali. I just threw Miranda in there because well... you'd be **** out of luck if you needed a tech early game. And what boxes? There aren't odd boxes of weapons and armor lying around everywhere in mass effect two. You just scan for upgrades and pick stuff up. The reasons to hack/bypass are to advance through a mission and get money which made up +50% of your total cash. If you can consider Miranda, Garrus, Thane or Mordin techies, when they have nothing definitively tech about them then why is it so hard to think that Shephard should be able to open and damned door?

I said box but you can interchange that with safe, door, datapad, wall, or whatever skill based object is in any given game.

That meter showed class layout, per the manual, but it had no reflection on practical usage. Garrus was not more soldiery than Tali. Ashely was not any stronger than Kaidan in a firefight. It was like she had Invulnerable-lite. The only character who was actually strong was Wrex who was a better soldier than Ashely in additon to being a better biotic than Kaidan. And everyone of your squadmates could use every single weapon, which kinda defeated the purpose of Ashley being a soldier and subsequently making her the least useful member. In ME2 they deversified the squad somewhat even though they kinda left Jacob hanging alittle.

No Kaiden was not equally as combat oriented as Ashley in a firefight.
No the NPCs could not use every weapon with equal efficiency even though they had access.
The ratings was an indicator of where the majority of damage would come from. Would it be guns(combat)  that had a constant output with some spiking. Would it be biotics that were more about control than damage. Would it be tech in that it was a mix of damage and control.
ME2 limited cross power access among the squad but that did not improve usefulness. It made them all generically useful on casual - vet and on HC-Insanity Miranda is an automatic pick thanks to her squad bonuses. After you pick Miranda the other squad mate is decided by if it is a loyalty mission or R-P-S against what will be the most prevalent defenses in that mission.

Yeah, but nobody would want to not bring Jacob on a mission to find Jacob's father. It's nowhere near the same, but I think you already know this and just grasping at straws. 

I also think I should note that I could give a rats ass about achievements. I don't play ME1 or 2 to turn a greyed out icon into a colorful icon. I still have greyed achievements on ME1 because I always switch my squad up and I've never played a tech class so far in ME1. If you get your kicks off of frivolous devices like achievements to make an easy game easier, so be it.

All the loyalty things are mandatory in ME2.
There are games that have missions attached to characters and if they are not brought along react accordingly so after the mission is done. ME1, DAO, and KOTOR have missions like that.
There are also times when a character is mandatory for sake of the story.
The issue is that ME2 makes loyalty missions the story so therefore mandatory for the sake of the story.

Yes, having to put skills into intimidate/charm was pointless.
Yes, having to bring a tech in ME1 was frivolous
Yes, the inventory system was illconceived.

Intimidate/charm was not pointless it was optional and offered rewards.Some of those rewards like store discounts are there from the use of Paragon/Renegade.
Bringing a tech was how ME1 handled hacking/bypassing. Tech was a skill in ME1 and that was one of the factors that made it usefull.
The inventory system offered a depth to the ME-verse with various manufactuers, stores, and items.
It has issues in that there was a flood of crap to handle at any given time. Inventory systems that function just like ME1s system but without the massive drop rate are better such as KOTOR and DAO.
ME2 obliteration of inventory is not an improvment.

People complaining about improvements hardly counts for anything. People who want to ruin the game with pointless, frivolous nonsense can scream at the top of their lungs all they want. That's what minorities do. Bioware is in the 21st century. They aren't going back to the stone age in game design. You might as well deal with it.

People complaining do count for something. Perhaps you need to dig up the old ME forum and read those complaints to see how those complaints effected ME2.

Your use adverbs of pointless and frivolous to describe any aspect of things you disapprove of shows what kind of mindset you have and where you are lacking. There are plenty of rational well thought out posts with complaints and praise on ME2.
If you read the Wishlist for ME3 or the various polls about specific ME2 changes you wouldn't be able to claim it are the minorities putting up ideas. The ideas seem to want to make ME3 more akin to ME1 with improvements.
Stone age of gaming design? All of 2 years and 2 months serparate ME1 from ME2. Both are still on the same gen of consoles. ME2 is not a game design paradigm different from ME1.

[TJSolo]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

What you're asking for has never been provided by any cRPG. No Company has ever produced a cRPG that gives you total control over what you say.

I'm not asking for that.  Why does anyone ever think I'm asking for that?

I'm asking for dialogue options where the only explicit content is visible to me before I choose it.  That's all.

Every BioWare game except for Mass Effect has given me that.

TJSolo wrote...

What is holding you back from interpreting a spoken line to fit?

Because the game makes that content explicit.  I can't just rewrite the game without possibly contradicting future events.

If that content is implicit, then the game won't assume it's true one way or the other.  If Shepard actually says something I don't expect, then the game might then react to that, with characters referring back to Shepard's utterance of that line.  A line I didn't want Shepard to say.  If I just retcon that line away, that doesn't change that the game still thinks it happened.

But if the game doesn't add in lines that I didn't choose, then the game won't react to that non-existent content.

This isn't complicated.

The game still reacts to unspoken text.
Uttering a line can be treated no differently then unspoken text, when in context of said game is actually spoken.
You are just inconsistent and contrary.

Good luck in your endeavors to troll because your claims are nonsense and supporting reasoning is contrary.

[Canned Bullets]

"Streamlined Gameplay"

[Sylvius the Mad]

TJSolo wrote...

The game still reacts to unspoken text.

Only the literal meaning of that text.  The tone and delivery of those lines is left up the the player.

Uttering a line can be treated no differently then unspoken text, when in context of said game is actually spoken.

That's patently false, as I've just shown.

You are just inconsistent and contrary.

Your confirmation bias is showing.  You've decided I'm crazy, so you're filling in the gaps in my position with suppositions that make me sound crazy.  Except I haven't actually espoused the positions you're attributing to me.

Have you ever played an RPG with keyword or text-parsing dialogue?

[exskeeny]

.
New story twists-hurray! Wait, have we actually had any?-uber-lame.
 

i know there are no spoilers allowed but yes we have. quite a massive one concerning a certain squad member picked up late in the game and their loyalty mission.

[Varenus Luckmann]

javierabegazo wrote...

Rodriguer2000 wrote...
i like how they changed it theres no other game out there like it

I love the changes in the Combat system, it's everything I wanted for ME1, but I also am hungry for more story driven DLC

I like those changes too. But now, the entire game revolves around the combat system.

Which is not cool.

[TJSolo]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

The game still reacts to unspoken text.

Only the literal meaning of that text.  The tone and delivery of those lines is left up the the player.

Uttering a line can be treated no differently then unspoken text, when in context of said game is actually spoken.

That's patently false, as I've just shown.

You are just inconsistent and contrary.

Your confirmation bias is showing.  You've decided I'm crazy, so you're filling in the gaps in my position with suppositions that make me sound crazy.  Except I haven't actually espoused the positions you're attributing to me.

Have you ever played an RPG with keyword or text-parsing dialogue?

I have read your postings over the past day in this thread, never responding, and just watching you manipulate the conversation.
Biased or not; I have not jumped to my conclusion of you from one response.
You only see statements as false if they don't agree with you even statements that point out the contradiction of your stance.
Your retorts evade and jade the questions asked of you so you can control the topic with your illogical and inconsistent statements.
I have not called you crazy, you called yourself that.
Of all the topics and threads I have took part in you are the only person I deem worthless to further correspond with.
Good bye.

[Varenus Luckmann]

exskeeny wrote...

.
New story twists-hurray! Wait, have we actually had any?-uber-lame.
 

i know there are no spoilers allowed but yes we have. quite a massive one concerning a certain squad member picked up late in the game and their loyalty mission.

Uh.. I'm fairly certain I did all loyalty missions, but I have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.