1067 réponses à ce sujet

[Pocketgb]

Daeion wrote...

Apparently I played ME wrong because I never used immunity spam or double frictionless materials.

And I'm having trouble in ME2 because I disabled being able to equip Heavy Weapons and Sniper Rifles on my Soldier (I don't like their appearance on my back).

But that's not the point. When using the best of the best, the game still needs to remain challenging and difficult.

[TJSolo]

Pocketgb wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Apparently I played ME wrong because I never used immunity spam or double frictionless materials.

And I'm having trouble in ME2 because I disabled being able to equip Heavy Weapons and Sniper Rifles on my Soldier (I don't like their appearance on my back).

But that's not the point. When using the best of the best, the game still needs to remain challenging and difficult.

When the best of the best breaks the game and you continue to do so; then it is an example of the best of the best being broken. Not the game, not the mechanics, just that best of the best situation.
You might want to share that mod that disables weapons, some people would love it.

[Pocketgb]

TJSolo wrote...

When the best of the best breaks the game and you continue to do so; then it is an example of the best of the best being broken. Not the game, not the mechanics, just that best of the best situation.

The issue is that Immunity isn't a glitch, it's not an exploit, it's not a bug. It's an ability with a tooltip that fully explains what it does. It's hard to miss something this good through testing. All signs point to this being intentional, and that's not good.

[Mimaiselphenai]

Pocketgb wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

When the best of the best breaks the game and you continue to do so; then it is an example of the best of the best being broken. Not the game, not the mechanics, just that best of the best situation.

The issue is that Immunity isn't a glitch, it's not an exploit, it's not a bug. It's an ability with a tooltip that fully explains what it does. It's hard to miss something this good through testing. All signs point to this being intentional, and that's not good.

They should have left the cooldown of Immunity unaltered. 80% damage resistance every 30 seconds I think it was maxed out? Not counting if you were wearing cooldown reduction mods on your armor.

Like how I managed to get my Barrier cooldown to 16 seconds on my Adept when the duration is over 20 seconds...Not that I'm complaining since it was my third playthrough and I was kind of past the point of  "being challenged."

[Dudeman315]

Using the Best of the Best in most RPGs destroys the challenge. And most RPGers don't care cause they can RP not using the the best of the best. This is the only RPG I've heard people complain about not being HARD enough. I also didn't play ME1 right apparently, cause no immunity at all let alone spamming it and no double frictionless is playing it wrong according to all the FPS kiddies.



Reminds me of the people who want the easiest song on Guitar Hero to be Through the Fire and the Flames on expert. Seriously people not every game has to have an "impossible" challenge mode.

[finnithe]

Dudeman315 wrote...

Using the Best of the Best in most RPGs destroys the challenge. And most RPGers don't care cause they can RP not using the the best of the best. This is the only RPG I've heard people complain about not being HARD enough. I also didn't play ME1 right apparently, cause no immunity at all let alone spamming it and no double frictionless is playing it wrong according to all the FPS kiddies.

Reminds me of the people who want the easiest song on Guitar Hero to be Through the Fire and the Flames on expert. Seriously people not every game has to have an "impossible" challenge mode.

Don't tell me that in Dragon Age using the best equipment meant that you never died. Even abusing Blood Magic doesn't always work. People are also complaining that Awakening is too easy and there are Nightmare+ mods for DA:O.

[exxxed]

slimgrin wrote...

Me2 is a blockbuster. A good one. And as such, it doesn't ask you to think too much. Please, for the love of god, don't say it is stream-lined or revolutionary. It has been pared down like any action game. Period.

Those of you who think this is where rpg's are headed, are seriously deluding yourselves.

 It's not the case of where RPG's are heading, the case is where Bioware is taking this franchise...
 
 As much as this game claims to be mature, i just can't see it, its like they intentionally try to bring the trigger happy kiddies on this side of the fence, hence losing their loyal fan base...

 Not gonna comment on the subject further, because there's no point in what so ever when money talks people listen and the rest are stuck on sucking their thumbs expecting something more, more complex, more in-depth...

 Take care guys!

[Jaysonie]

exxxed wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Me2 is a blockbuster. A good one. And as such, it doesn't ask you to think too much. Please, for the love of god, don't say it is stream-lined or revolutionary. It has been pared down like any action game. Period.

Those of you who think this is where rpg's are headed, are seriously deluding yourselves.

 It's not the case of where RPG's are heading, the case is where Bioware is taking this franchise...
 
 As much as this game claims to be mature, i just can't see it, its like they intentionally try to bring the trigger happy kiddies on this side of the fence, hence losing their loyal fan base...

 Not gonna comment on the subject further, because there's no point in what so ever when money talks people listen and the rest are stuck on sucking their thumbs expecting something more, more complex, more in-depth...

 Take care guys!

Dont let the door hit you on the way out.

[exxxed]

Jaysonie wrote...




Dont let the door hit you on the way out.

I'll try to not let the door hit you on my way out!
 
No one's going anywhere, we still love the lore and the story, just a lil' disappointed on the gameplay aspects, thinking of which  Bioware seems that will try to remedy the situation in the GRAND FINALE, so yea we're not going anywhere we still have a few more things to say before we leave.

 Cheers!

[Gorn Kregore]

mass effect 1 was an rpg? lol

[Jaysonie]

exxxed wrote...

Jaysonie wrote...




Dont let the door hit you on the way out.

I'll try to not let the door hit you on my way out!
 
No one's going anywhere, we still love the lore and the story, just a lil' disappointed on the gameplay aspects, thinking of which  Bioware seems that will try to remedy the situation in the GRAND FINALE, so yea we're not going anywhere we still have a few more things to say before we leave.

 Cheers!

You lied to me......
You told me you were leaving and now your not. I had even found a replacment. Guess all for not.

Modifié par Jaysonie, 22 mars 2010 - 01:20 .

[Dudeman315]

finnithe wrote...

Dudeman315 wrote...

Using the Best of the Best in most RPGs destroys the challenge. And most RPGers don't care cause they can RP not using the the best of the best. This is the only RPG I've heard people complain about not being HARD enough. I also didn't play ME1 right apparently, cause no immunity at all let alone spamming it and no double frictionless is playing it wrong according to all the FPS kiddies.

Reminds me of the people who want the easiest song on Guitar Hero to be Through the Fire and the Flames on expert. Seriously people not every game has to have an "impossible" challenge mode.

Don't tell me that in Dragon Age using the best equipment meant that you never died. Even abusing Blood Magic doesn't always work. People are also complaining that Awakening is too easy and there are Nightmare+ mods for DA:O.

I only died at 2 points in Dragon Age: First Ogre battle in Ostagar and the one that puts you into prison, I don't even know if I had the best equipment just played combat like diablo had 88 health potions at the end. Was the game that much harder on PC?

Modifié par Dudeman315, 22 mars 2010 - 02:28 .

[TJSolo]

Pocketgb wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

When the best of the best breaks the game and you continue to do so; then it is an example of the best of the best being broken. Not the game, not the mechanics, just that best of the best situation.

The issue is that Immunity isn't a glitch, it's not an exploit, it's not a bug. It's an ability with a tooltip that fully explains what it does. It's hard to miss something this good through testing. All signs point to this being intentional, and that's not good.

There was no statement about it being a glitch or bug. Immunity was just too good and abused by players that chose to take the easiest path.
The issue was immunity and how it was balanced, well not balanced.

[Pocketgb]

TJSolo wrote...

There was no statement about it being a glitch or bug. Immunity was just too good and abused by players that chose to take the easiest path.
The issue was immunity and how it was balanced, well not balanced.

Took things:

1. There should definitely be an "easier" path, but only in execution with the skill required, not in performance. Ken and Ryu are great characters to start with in Street Fighter, but that also doesn't make them the best. When the easiest to play characters are also the best, the game as a whole becomes less interesting, and encouragement to play is nil. A great example of an easy to play and insanely powerful class in ME2 is the Infiltrator.

2. "Paths" that are not as easy to tread on should yield the same if not better results than those who take the easier route. A great example of this in ME2 is the Vanguard.

Creating a satisfying difficulty scale is pretty vital, but balance is even moreso.

[D.I.Y_Death]

I don't see what the big deal about adding the shooter elements was. In fact the shooter elements were done perfectly, although Insane wasn't exactly hard if you realize that direct fire will decimate you.



I do wish they kept the rpg elements of ME1 though because where ME2 fails the hardest is the removal of specific immersive elements and addition of new systems that further hindered immersion.



The good elements of ME1 and ME2 could have been combined so easily too, leading to probably one of the best games out there for RPG and FPS fans alike.

[Tempest]

I'm more curious on what people think qualifies an RPG. I hear alot about how ME2 is not an RPG, that what qualifies as one? Does it have to be a JRPG to be an rpg? Do people know that dungeons and dragons does not much follow a JRPG format and yet in a way is an RPG, but not a video game one, most of the time. Yet ME follows a similar pattern to that of Dungeons and Dragons. Lvling up? check. Self made character? Check. Inventory? Check. Self manipulated story based on a single fantasy world? Check.



As said, just because it does not follow a JRPG mean that it's not a RPG. I hate double negatives, but it works.

[TJSolo]

Pocketgb wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

There was no statement about it being a glitch or bug. Immunity was just too good and abused by players that chose to take the easiest path.
The issue was immunity and how it was balanced, well not balanced.

Took things:

1. There should definitely be an "easier" path, but only in execution with the skill required, not in performance. Ken and Ryu are great characters to start with in Street Fighter, but that also doesn't make them the best. When the easiest to play characters are also the best, the game as a whole becomes less interesting, and encouragement to play is nil. A great example of an easy to play and insanely powerful class in ME2 is the Infiltrator.

2. "Paths" that are not as easy to tread on should yield the same if not better results than those who take the easier route. A great example of this in ME2 is the Vanguard.

Creating a satisfying difficulty scale is pretty vital, but balance is even moreso.

The easiest path will be found by players; the question then is "Have the devs considered this possibility?" Immunity spam every fight all the time isn't a normal play style and wasn't taken into consideration.
Not the best example as Soldier is an easier path and I am finding Engineer is starting to look like the next easiest.(3 sec Drone is great)
 
"Creating a satisfying difficulty scale is pretty vital, but balance is even moreso."
Not using immunity ups the difficulty and balance. It really is the biggest factor in the balance equation.

[Tempest]

Just saying, that if a game is to be a proper hybrid of 2 different genres, one is not to expect it to be deep any any genre BUT should be able to at least blend them well.

[Pocketgb]

TJSolo wrote...

The easiest path will be found by players; the question then is "Have the devs considered this possibility?" Immunity spam every fight all the time isn't a normal play style and wasn't taken into consideration.

1. It's an incredible ability and a life-saver, it's going to be high in the players' mindset.
2. The cooldown for the ability lowers with each rank up, and further with cooldown mods. Achieving perma-immunity

I really, really, really find it hard to believe that this wasn't taken into consideration, nor that it wouldn't be a rather frequently used strat. Regardless, every play style should be accounted for - it's called balance.

Not only that, but how does one define "normal play style"? I felt that using the Soldier's abilities was pretty "normal" to me!

TJSolo wrote...

Not using immunity ups the difficulty and balance.

Nice. So, why the hell would you even attempt to make the game balanced at all? Or snap, why even have difficulty settings? Just have an abilitiy that states "you have complete God Mode until you press this button again".

Players shouldn't have to shoot themselves in the leg to find balance. Ignoring problems doesn't solve them.

[XingDaorong]

I didn't like the changes at first, but after my second playthrough, imo, ME2 is much better. If BioWare wanted to churn out a stale forgettable game they could have kept the Mako, altered the planet environments, and left the gameplay the same but they managed to make ME2 fast paced and action packed while still keeping enough RPG elements, it complements the first one perfectly.

Modifié par XingDaorong, 22 mars 2010 - 04:00 .

[TJSolo]

The devs rarely considers the LCD when it comes to tactics.

Just because a defensive power is off cooldown doesn't mean it has to be used but it still is.



You are thinking in a pure min/max mindset. Every player does not think that way, and neither did BW when it came to Immunity.

[Pocketgb]

TJSolo wrote...

The devs rarely considers the LCD when it comes to tactics.
Just because a defensive power is off cooldown doesn't mean it has to be used but it still is.

I had to reread and evaluate this quite a few times, and it's still pretty mind-blowing. The first part I find completely baffaling: unless I understand, are you saying Bioware doesn't take cooldown times into consideration when balancing??

The second part I just found a bit distressing. Why would you not use something that complete negates your need for cover, thus allowing you to deal damage and use abilities? "Just because"? That's the same thing I usually hear when I ask people why they don't wear a helmet when they bike.

TJSolo wrote...

You are thinking in a pure min/max mindset. Every player does not think that way, and neither did BW when it came to Immunity.

That's why so many were pissed: they only cared about the majority player, not everyone. But we're not pissed about that, we're pissed because here's the biggest thing:
Everybody wins when the game is balanced.
Everybody wins when the game is balanced.
Everybody wins when the game is balanced!