1067 réponses à ce sujet

[A Fhaol Bhig]

slimgrin wrote...


A Fhaol Bhig, I have nothing but praise for Bioware....and a little constructive criticism. But I digress. To the OP I say that, honestly, what I miss the most about ME1 is the customization. There was more of it. But I am just as pleased with the story elements in ME2, and I don't mind getting guns and such for DLC because this is, after all, a TPS.

However, once I've seen a plot element play out with a couple of variations, I'm pretty much ready to move on. Its the gameplay that has replay value to me, not the story so much.

lol, man I wasn't arguing with you! I was just pointing out it goes both ways!
I think your a very, blunt, but  well meaning person ^^

[MassEffect762]

OP: What happened to rpg?

Forrest Gump: It got shot.

lol. JK.

I too would like more story driven content.

Modifié par MassEffect762, 10 mars 2010 - 02:22 .

[Darth Drago]

Jaysonie wrote...
The have over 14 years of criticly aclaimed hardcore rpgs. They can cater to who they want to at this point seeing as how the have been catering to the Rpg crowd for so long. Anytime they try to release a game that isnt heavy on loot or dialouge(sp?) they get flamed by the Rpg gamers who then hale the end of bioware as a hardcore rpg company(jade empire comes to mind). It gets old after a while.

They can cater to anyone they want, that’s not the issue. The issue is they went from one extreme in the first game to another in its sequel.
-Lots of loot to no loot.
-Lots of random dialog to very little.
-Lots of side quests to very few side quests.
-Lots of variety of weapons and armor (even if it was just a repaint version) to very little variety of anything. Oh wait, we got at least 7 heavy weapons now don’t we?
-Large environments like the main quest locations in ME to small compact ones.
-ME1 was a sci-fi RPG while ME2 is a third person shooter with levels designed exclusively for that.

You don’t change genres (or make so many drastic changes) in the middle of a franchise game series.
*For the record I loved Jade Empire.

[Horus Blackheart]

I've played both games many times now and I'm in 2 minds about responding or not. becouse typcaly it degrades in to fanboy vs fan boy.

When comparing the 2 games side by side it is evdent to me that the rpg elements and story have suffered in the attempt to bring the franchise to as wide an audence as posable.

There is nothing wrong with hybrid game play if the balance is right. The main plot line in mass effect 2 was there purly to get people from point B to point C. There was a total lack of urgency save for forcing the player to do  certain things at a predefind time and in a predefined way. The first example of this is the way party recrutment is reduced to shopping lists. Is there any reason why I have to wait till after a certain point to get thane and so on?
I understand the point about the colectors being this big threat but honistly I found myself unmoved. atleast with Sarin and the beacons you got sweped along with the story while having the freedom of independent action. The choices you made and the order you did them in resulted in a vastly difernt exp in masseffect one.
I can't say the same for masseffect 2 npcs rarly have any banter or coments in mission areas and when they do it feels tacked on as an after thought.

I think everyone can agree that the inventory and combat in masseffect was flawed. In my vew all that was needed for the inventory system was item stacking and list filtering. The mako was annoying and unwealdy so i dont miss that.

Mini games in both mass effect 1 and 2 I find to be totaly frustrating and largly pointless after 5 minutes. At least in masseffect one there was a way of bypassing them compleatly. Mini games are the worst elements of jrpgs and I dont understand the need for them.
I remember the first time I played knights of the old republic those swoop raceing space combat mini games were annoying after the first time you did them.
I freely admit i'm not a shooter fan, I have picked up the odd few in my time. Masseffect2 combat I find boils down to this:

run to cover shoot go to next cover, select ammo type A shoot till defence layer A is gone select ammo B  rince and repeat. Swarming of husks and other close combat enemys is not a tactcal chalange its just ANNOYING. mission maps feel to clostrophobic. IE land on planet shoot things up leave. The missions that were the exeption to that generic formula were:
tali's loyalty mission thanes loyaly mission(which i personaly found irtating but at least there was some actual rping involved) and jacks mission. Other than tali's and jacks and posably mordans mission I felt things were way to liner.

Sumary of masseffect 2 colect resources, get upgrades, get team shopping list do end mission, which is as compeling as voting in the latest vapid talent contest ie not very
Now before the flameing starts I understand what bioware was trying to do with the game and the story and on paper its great. Its just how thay implmented it thats the problem.
Hybrid game that works = deus ex
hybrid games that fail deus ex invisable war (dumbed down for console kiddies)  dawn of war 2 again nice idea on paper horably vapid and liner See the patern yet?
anyway I think i'll end this here by saying its not that i think masseffect 2 is a bad game, its just much less than it could have been.

Ps tali's development for masseffect was great I was totaly engaged by  her and jacks story garus was a little disappointing but I play male shepard.

(text got omitted the first time out reformated)

Modifié par Horus Blackheart, 10 mars 2010 - 04:27 .

[JKoopman]

Rodriguer2000 wrote...

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

There is the Firewalker pack coming very soon. I'm sure that plenty more will be released in time, the game hasn't been out that long in case you haven't noticed.

I don't understand why people cannot except that this is simply a different type of rpg, an action-rpg hybrid. No, the game doesn't have to have a massive inventory of relatively useless items. No, the enemies don't have to have an experience number over their heads after every kill. You are still assuming the role of Commander Shepard. Your actions still have some impact on others (although I wish your actions had more of an impact than they currently do).

thats what i dont understand wasnt the mass effect series supposed to be somthing different not just the same old rpg if i bothers you go play other rpg theres alot out there also there not gonna change it completley just cause a few people are complaining
 

Why not? They changed pretty much the entire game between ME1 and ME2 because a few people complained...

I love that argument too; "If you don't like shooters then why did you buy one lol?" ME1 was an RPG first and foremost with shooter elements. ME2 is a shooter first and foremost with a few RPG elements. Most people, upon purchasing a sequel, expect it to be somewhat in the same genre as the original. A lot of people, myself included, feel like BioWare pulled a bait and switch. I bought ME2 expecting a continuation of ME1 and instead I got Gears of War with a dialog wheel.

Modifié par JKoopman, 10 mars 2010 - 04:37 .

[Darkhour]

TJSolo wrote...

Better combat? Well the shooting aspect has been improved but the AI has retard issues, cover is used to the extreme, and it is more of a linear gauntlet.
Better graphics, very true.
The dialog isn't improved. There are less dialog type missions then ME1 and in many spots the only difference between a Renegade option or Paragon one is that a renegade one will shoot you in the leg while a paragon one might only hint of shooting you in the leg.
Armor better, graphically yes. Performance wise, no.

" If ME2 isn't a RPG then neither was ME1."
No.
 

ME2's AI is WAY better than ME1's AI. Yes, there are times when a squadmate will flip out and charge into a group of 5 enemy combatants, but usually they take cover and actually obey orders. In mass effect one they hardly ever took cover, couldn't seem to hit an elephant at 5 feet and would not follow commands.

The cover system is great. I sure beats being able to run into a run of 20 mercs and single handedly take them all out while your squad chills out in the lobby. I like that I can't stand out in the middle of a hail of fire and not die. I like that I actually have a reason to coordinate attacks with my squad.

The dialog in ME2 is by far superior to ME1. Every last crew member, even no dialog wheel Zaeed, has better dialog than any squadmate in ME1. What I did miss was squadmates having comments during missions beside just the one 1-time spot at each major hub. As far as renegade/paragon go it hasn't changed much from ME1.  It improves in the fact that paragon has some good remarks too and isn't as boring as it was in ME1.

Armor and weapons weren't a cumbersome exercise in frustration that it was in ME1. Do I really need to have 40 items forced upon me against my will? I'd take 1 customizable suit over 50 ugly suits any day. I like that they removed all that excess baggage from ME1.

ME1 and 2 are the same type of game. They both have the same basic feel. If one isn't a RPG, then neither is the other,

[Jaysonie]

JKoopman wrote...

Rodriguer2000 wrote...

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

There is the Firewalker pack coming very soon. I'm sure that plenty more will be released in time, the game hasn't been out that long in case you haven't noticed.

I don't understand why people cannot except that this is simply a different type of rpg, an action-rpg hybrid. No, the game doesn't have to have a massive inventory of relatively useless items. No, the enemies don't have to have an experience number over their heads after every kill. You are still assuming the role of Commander Shepard. Your actions still have some impact on others (although I wish your actions had more of an impact than they currently do).

thats what i dont understand wasnt the mass effect series supposed to be somthing different not just the same old rpg if i bothers you go play other rpg theres alot out there also there not gonna change it completley just cause a few people are complaining
 

Why not? They changed pretty much the entire game between ME1 and ME2 because a few people complained...

I love that argument too; "If you don't like shooters then why did you buy one lol?" ME1 was an RPG first and foremost with shooter elements. ME2 is a shooter first and foremost with a few RPG elements. Most people, upon purchasing a sequel, expect it to be somewhat in the same genre as the original. A lot of people, myself included, feel like BioWare pulled a bait and switch. I bought ME2 expecting a continuation of ME1 and instead I got Gears of War with a dialog wheel.

Is that a bad thing, if the game is fun and you get to continue the story than isnt that whats most important.

[Darth Drago]

JKoopman wrote...

I love that argument too; "If you don't like shooters then why did you buy one lol?" ME1 was an RPG first and foremost with shooter elements. ME2 is a shooter first and foremost with a few RPG elements. Most people, upon purchasing a sequel, expect it to be somewhat in the same genre as the original. A lot of people, myself included, feel like BioWare pulled a bait and switch. I bought ME2 expecting a continuation of ME1 and instead I got Gears of War with a dialog wheel.

That’s part of the problem. I wouldn’t call a fantasy RPG a RPG with some hack n’ slash elements. So why call a sci-fi RPG a RPG with shooter elements? Like what are you supposed to use against anything you fight harsh language?

[Horus Blackheart]

Jaysonie wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Rodriguer2000 wrote...

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

There is the Firewalker pack coming very soon. I'm sure that plenty more will be released in time, the game hasn't been out that long in case you haven't noticed.

I don't understand why people cannot except that this is simply a different type of rpg, an action-rpg hybrid. No, the game doesn't have to have a massive inventory of relatively useless items. No, the enemies don't have to have an experience number over their heads after every kill. You are still assuming the role of Commander Shepard. Your actions still have some impact on others (although I wish your actions had more of an impact than they currently do).

thats what i dont understand wasnt the mass effect series supposed to be somthing different not just the same old rpg if i bothers you go play other rpg theres alot out there also there not gonna change it completley just cause a few people are complaining
 

Why not? They changed pretty much the entire game between ME1 and ME2 because a few people complained...

I love that argument too; "If you don't like shooters then why did you buy one lol?" ME1 was an RPG first and foremost with shooter elements. ME2 is a shooter first and foremost with a few RPG elements. Most people, upon purchasing a sequel, expect it to be somewhat in the same genre as the original. A lot of people, myself included, feel like BioWare pulled a bait and switch. I bought ME2 expecting a continuation of ME1 and instead I got Gears of War with a dialog wheel.

Is that a bad thing, if the game is fun and you get to continue the story than isnt that whats most important.

Gears of war with a dialog wheel is a bad thing yes  . I think what some of us dislike  is the growing trend of games being striped down to get at the "massmarket"  now if i was a share holder thats all well and good. But the flipside is that if you annoy the people that were loyal from day one they risk loosing more in the long term.

[Darkhour]

slimgrin wrote...

I also liked allocating points to my conversational abilities (charm intimidate)

To sum up, the whole system did a good job of putting me at the helm, so to speak. I like lots of options in my games.

Seriously? Wow... just... wow.

That was a horrible system. not only was it redundant, but pigeon holed you into being all paragon or all renegade. Spliting points would not only result in both renegade and paragon being too low to make alot of dialog choices, but you would would be seriously underdeveloped combat wise.

I have a hard time understanding what Bioware was thinking (if they were thinking) when they implimented it. How anyone could have liked it, in the context of a game like ME, is beyond me.

[OasisForever1991]

Casey Hudson quote:

"Mass Effect 1 is a RPG with shooter elements"

"Mass Effect 2 is a RPG with even MORE shooter elements"

ME2: that's the game Bioware has made. It's the same thing but with better combat.

IMO: ME1 has the feeling of the Mass Effect universe and also it makes you feel even MORE connected with the story and the characters and everything Mass Effect than ME2 did. ME2 felt so "automatic". It was hard for me to feel the sense of exploration and the greater feeling of being Commander Shepard. And I say "being" Shepard because I didn't really feel like "I" was Shepard or you know that "this is my character" in ME2 because of this "atuomatic" (in a way) story.

ME2 cannot come close to the feeling ME1 gave you about being in the Normandy and exploring the universe, running around Noveria for the first time and saying to yourself and feeling "oh god, I hope i didn't like miss anything" and also Noveria felt so big kinda and actually "cold" or ariving on the The Big C for the first time and actually feeling Humans are aprat of this Galactic society, trying to get a foot hold in this great we just dicovered.

For me it all comes down to this:

People will make these threads because of little things (atleast for them) that don't live up to a RPG or a RPG with even MORE shooter elements (ME2). And ask "why" or "whree" is everything. But for me it's all about the feeling. Because I never got any REAL feeling from a video game untill ME1 and I hated to see that go in ME2 and that's the only thing I cared about was the MASS EFFECT FEELING of this great SCi-FI Isaac Asimov high minded novel video game that is Mass Effect 1.

And people can't say that ME2 isn't a RPG with shooter elements because I got the freaking Project Director telling us what game they have made. And they know MORE than we do about what Mass Effect 1 and 2 is and what they have made. Enough is enougth people call it what ever you want, I know what Mass Effect 2 IS. And the only I didn't like was it didn't give me that Mass Effect FEELING. It is not about weapons or clothes or custimization or whatever. Bioware has told us what ME2 is (and it isn't going to change haha).

[Murmillos]

Darkhour wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I also liked allocating points to my conversational abilities (charm intimidate)

To sum up, the whole system did a good job of putting me at the helm, so to speak. I like lots of options in my games.

Seriously? Wow... just... wow.

That was a horrible system. not only was it redundant, but pigeon holed you into being all paragon or all renegade. Spliting points would not only result in both renegade and paragon being too low to make alot of dialog choices, but you would would be seriously underdeveloped combat wise.

I have a hard time understanding what Bioware was thinking (if they were thinking) when they implimented it. How anyone could have liked it, in the context of a game like ME, is beyond me.

Underdeveloped combat wise?  Not really.  I can play any class in ME1, put 16 full points into Charm/Intimidate (plus getting the free points) - and still be just as effective as somebody whom puts in no points into those talents.  The total combat time would amount to less an hour of combat difference - if that much. There are very few skills that required full 12 points into.  Warp, Fitness and your weapon of choice were the only things that "really" required the full 12 points.  Throw at 12 points was wicked too - but never needed.

To many people saw ME1 as a combat game and went "Hurr derp derp... speech skills suck!"

Modifié par Murmillos, 10 mars 2010 - 05:39 .

[Collider]

Shavon wrote...

Mass Effect 1 was rpg-lite, but that was fine with me, the story was awesome, Shepard was very customizable, it became a unique game per person who played.  Maybe a little too light, but still one of my favorite games of all time.  Mass Effect 2, amazing combat (imo), a decent story, despite certain characters getting the shaft, but it's no longer what Biwoare does best: an rpg.

So, Bioware, what happened?  We're getting guns for dlcs?  Are we going to get any story-driven stuff, similar to Bring Down the Sky?  Or the excellent dlc's for Dragon Age?  I know a game company can put out more than one type of genre, but it seems like Bioware is trying to cross genres at the expense of the game.  

Ok, discuss, flame I don't care, I just want the rpg stuff back.  <_<

Yes, let's have the nightmare inventory and useless and clunky abilities back. Oh wait. I actually hate that. ME2 ftw. Mass Effect is an RPG. roleplaying game. You are roleplaying as Shepard.

Modifié par Collider, 10 mars 2010 - 06:13 .

[SirVincealot]

Darkhour wrote...ME2's AI is WAY better than ME1's AI ... usually they take cover and actually obey orders. In mass effect one they hardly ever took cover, couldn't seem to hit an elephant at 5 feet and would not follow commands.

Mobs still won't go around obstacles taller than they are; rarely brave a staircase *but* will proceed into a hail of bullets in open ground; squad mates often climb *atop* cover instead of vaulting to the safe side (I've got a screenie of Garrus standing on a 20-foot tall pylon if you want).

One thing much more deadly now are rocket launcher-wielding mobs. Other than that the A.I. is merely improved, not overhauled.

The cover system is great. I sure beats being able to run into a run of 20 mercs and single handedly take them all out while your squad chills out in the lobby. I like that I can't stand out in the middle of a hail of fire and not die.

Equipped with Charge, Barrier and the DLC shotgun, I can do just that on Hardcore difficulty - and have had to, due to Tali Z'hora's suicidal tendencies and Samara's total lack of self-preservation, presumably due to her ginormous cleavage diverting precious blood away from her brain.

The dialog in ME2 is by far superior to ME1. Every last crew member, even no dialog wheel Zaeed, has better dialog than any squadmate in ME1.

Sure.

In the Bizarro World!

Yes, it's improved. No, it's not better than Wrex or Garrus had in the first game - two mates with excellent backstory and motivations.

Do I really need to have 40 items forced upon me against my will? I'd take 1 customizable suit over 50 ugly suits any day.

"Forced against your will"? Really? Were you tied to a chair with battery acid poured onto your nether parts while this went on?

You could sue! "Your honor, Bioware *forced* me to manage my inventory, I claim cruel and unusual punishment!"

/sarcasm

I'll split the difference with you, how's about that? Instead of a dozen suits with five texture jobs, let's make it an even 10 instead of the grand total of *ONE*. By the by, neither the Colossus i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/silversorrow/zzMEss.jpg, nor the Mercenary i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/silversorrow/MercenaryFemale-LightMediumHeavy.jpg armors are "ugly" - to anyone with discerning tastes that is.

And I don't think Garrus owning two suits will fly or, most astonishingly stupid, the fact that his updated "loyalty" suit is also shot to hell (in the exact same place because it's just a lazy retex)

The man sure needs a job if he can't afford more than two pairs of trousers, neither of which are any good in, you know, OUTER SPACE!

Both titles are absurdly silly in design and "science" - ME2 did not so much improve the experience as cut out all the stuff that gave it its particular flavour, warts and all, in some pencil-pushing inspired move to "trim the fat".

... because I do *not* believe Bioware were short of either talent or budget. No, the corridor/room/corridor + planet scanning tedium + minimalist inventory is due to some other factors, which only Carey Hudson could really explain.

SirV

[ObserverStatus]

No one has the attention span to play "real" rpgs anymore.

[SirVincealot]

bobobo878 wrote...

No one has the attention span to play "real" rpgs anymore.

Back that up with data or it's just another form of the "Darn kids!" argument.

SirV

[AngryFrozenWater]

Shavon wrote...

Mass Effect 1 was rpg-lite, but that was fine with me, the story was awesome, Shepard was very customizable, it became a unique game per person who played.  Maybe a little too light, but still one of my favorite games of all time.  Mass Effect 2, amazing combat (imo), a decent story, despite certain characters getting the shaft, but it's no longer what Biwoare does best: an rpg.

So, Bioware, what happened?  We're getting guns for dlcs?  Are we going to get any story-driven stuff, similar to Bring Down the Sky?  Or the excellent dlc's for Dragon Age?  I know a game company can put out more than one type of genre, but it seems like Bioware is trying to cross genres at the expense of the game.  

Ok, discuss, flame I don't care, I just want the rpg stuff back.  <_<

I agree with you 100%. I am not interested in weapons or useless armor. We stll got some story driven DLCs, though. And one is still in the pipeline.

It is my guess (not really based on anything but a hunch) that the non-promotional weapons and armor we got lately are canceled pre-order promotions. Instead of leaving them on the shelf BW decided to release them.

[fLoki]

JKoopman wrote...

... Gears of War with a dialog wheel.

Lol they should put that in game description.

Modifié par fLoki, 10 mars 2010 - 06:37 .

[ObserverStatus]

SirVincealot wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

No one has the attention span to play "real" rpgs anymore.

Back that up with data or it's just another form of the "Darn kids!" argument.

SirV

I'm sorry, ever heard of the "first ammendment" buddy? I'm going to say whatever I want, and your going to like it.