56 réponses à ce sujet

[akintu]

Can't believe no one has mentioned it, but you get the Carnifex long before you gain access to the Tempest. That alone makes it extremely useful. By the time you get the Tempest, you have access to multiple upgrades for both heavy pistol and SMG, making both quite powerful. But the heavy pistol gets some pretty nice damage upgrades compared to the SMG, especially vs armor.



I like the Tempest too. As a Sentinel with squad incendiary from someone slapped on it, it gets really strong later in the game. Bu the Carnifex maintains its usefulness, in my opinion.

[thisisme8]

kcrhun wrote...

What am I missing here?

What you are missing is consistency.  You can't compare two abstract numbers and come up with a practical answer.  It's impossible.

[cruc1al]

Alright guys,

If the arguments presented in this thread aren't enough, here's video evidence. I have all upgrades (including AP upgrade) and a 23% overall damage bonus from class (15% from Vanguard: Destroyer) and armor (5% recon hood, 3% N7 shoulder guards) bonuses. It's on insanity.

Turns out that at close range, Carnifex can take out Harbringer's armor in one clip without aiming for the head, while the SMG takes out only about 2/3 of the armor in one clip. In the test the SMG reload was extended a bit because of Harbringer's attacks, but only by a second or two. Overall, Carnifex was four times as fast at taking out harbringer, considering the need for Tempest to reload. If the Harbringer hadn't interrupted the reloading, the Carnifex would've been maybe three times as fast.

Check it out: How (not) to take down Harbringer's armor

I would've also tested without the AP upgrade, but I couldn't figure out how to remove it as I had it already in that save. However, it's fair to say that at 5/5 upgrades, you will have the AP upgrade anyway.

Modifié par cruc1al, 09 mars 2010 - 10:44 .

[_Dannok1234]

Wow, that was very close to the math I did for it. Nice video evidence to back it up with.

[sandman7431]

The tempest is overrated. All of the figures that people put out for it are only valid under optimal conditions which are hard to get into. I prefer the hand cannon when playing as an infiltrator. If you run out of ammo for your sniper rifle, you're probably at long range and well outside of the tempest's comfort zone. The hand cannon is the logical choice. As a vanguard, the hand cannon helps you to fight enemies that are outside of the shotgun's range. I honestly almost never used the tempest as a vanguard because shotgun ammo is not a problem. The only classes that need the tempest are support classes and even they only use it until they reach the collector ship and start using the vindi or the viper.

[cruc1al]

sandman7431 wrote...

The tempest is overrated. All of the figures that people put out for it are only valid under optimal conditions which are hard to get into. I prefer the hand cannon when playing as an infiltrator. If you run out of ammo for your sniper rifle, you're probably at long range and well outside of the tempest's comfort zone. The hand cannon is the logical choice. As a vanguard, the hand cannon helps you to fight enemies that are outside of the shotgun's range. I honestly almost never used the tempest as a vanguard because shotgun ammo is not a problem. The only classes that need the tempest are support classes and even they only use it until they reach the collector ship and start using the vindi or the viper.

I like to use the infiltrator's cloak to get up close and then spam tempest and cryo ammo. Works very well. Also, it's the only logical choice against shields on infiltrator, unless you're just too far. Even the vanguard benefits from it, as it has a longer effective range than shotguns - good for clearing up before you charge. And of course any other class (apart from soldier) uses that.

Modifié par cruc1al, 10 mars 2010 - 02:46 .

[Ackillez]

Video sinks any argument claiming the SMG is superior vs armour



Gotta love the Tempest though, for the same reason you gotta love the Revenant; no ammo worries, ever.

[mnrqz]

I actually almost NEVAR use my SMG with my Vanguard on insanity, I think I've only used it on Praetorians or when I actually ran out of ammo.

But Heavy Pistols are teh pwnz.

Accuracy, and after several upgrades they are extremely useful.

I don't use the Carnifex, I despise it's mediocre ammo capacity

Modifié par mnrqz, 10 mars 2010 - 03:47 .

[Serillen]

Ackillez wrote...

Video sinks any argument claiming the SMG is superior vs armour

Gotta love the Tempest though, for the same reason you gotta love the Revenant; no ammo worries, ever.

This pretty much. Tempest ain't the greatest, but it holds its own in a pinch if you ever run low on your preferred ammo types.

[Inferno Sock]

I like to use the Carnifex with AP ammo and/or Inferno ammo to take down vorcha armor FAST!!

Modifié par Inferno Sock, 10 mars 2010 - 04:04 .

[phordicus]

the OP should get to a part of the game with scions and switch between the two weapons. experience is the best teacher.

[ObserverStatus]

Hand canon is more accurate at long range. When fighting a scion, the ability to aim for its head is vastly more important than doing 50% more damage. Also, soldiers can't use smgs. Hand canon is good when sniper rifle ammo runs out.

[Dualfinger]

Does anyone use the Predator pistol. Or is it just me?

[Sialboats]

Dualfinger wrote...

Does anyone use the Predator pistol. Or is it just me?

I find it more versitile and adaptable. If I need to switch targets, or quickly put some rounds on a target, I can count on the Predator. The hand cannon feels limited on ammo and very powerful. Too powerful, too much recoil. A sniper rifle without the scope.

[themaxzero]

Dualfinger wrote...

Does anyone use the Predator pistol. Or is it just me?

Its a very good weapon for Cyro ammo since its fires fast, has lots of ammo and is accurate. Unlike SMGs and ARifles each bullet has a very high chance to freeze.

[OniGanon]

I haven't done serious testing on it or anything, but it seems to me the Carnifex is preferable for bosses and areas heavy in Armour, otherwise the Predator is the better choice for the increased ammo.

[Roxlimn]

Depends on the mish. Some missions I like the Predator. Some missions, I like the Carnifex.

[Arhka]

Heavy Pistols are hands down better against armor. Not because of the higher damage per shot, but because of the multipliers against armor + AP upgrade and also Heavy Pistol critical. One-shotting armor on rushes is better than Tempest spam. Also, the Carnifex stuns more than the Tempest, especially on headshots.

[RAIDENKUN]

To be fair though, the Tempset is a much more practical gun. On Normal I use the Carnifex exclusively. There's no doubt that it's overpowered as Hell seeing as you can down enemies in two shots.. But on Insanity I was out of ammo in 5 minutes. Incendiary Ammo on a Tempest does wonders on tougher difficulties.

[King Eselred]

Dualfinger wrote...

Does anyone use the Predator pistol. Or is it just me?

I use it for the entirerty of Mordin's recruitment mission (even after you get the Carnifex, I switch back) and at the beginning of the game when you dont have a lot of powers.  It does really well against lightly armored vorcha.

[KentGoldings]

The SMG is better for taking down barriers.

[Ackillez]

KentGoldings wrote...

The SMG is better for taking down barriers.

Captain obvious to the rescue!

[Besetment]

edit: nvm

Modifié par Besetment, 10 mars 2010 - 03:32 .

[KentGoldings]

Ackillez wrote...

KentGoldings wrote...

The SMG is better for taking down barriers.

Captain obvious to the rescue!

Just pointing out that the game design requires you to use the right tool for the right job. Sometimes you wanna use a pistol, sometimes an SMG, sometimes neither.

[DarthCaine]

SMG and Shotgun for shields

Heavy Pistol and Sniper for armor

It's that simple