188 réponses à ce sujet

[Feraele]

Dichotomize wrote...

durasteel wrote...
If anecdotal evidence is acceptable to you, then I can offer some.  I don't have a console myself, but my nephew has an XBox 360 - I don't know if it is modded at all.  He has, so far as I am aware, never acually purchased a game for it.  He downloads disk images that he burns to DVD, and has a library of games filling shelves and overflowing storage boxes.

He is a "member" of some pirate web site or other, part of a large community of game pirates.  He can pirate a console game in the time it takes me to purchase and install a game for the PC.  I'm not condoning his behavior, but it is obviously really easy for him to do it.

Also, there is a guy who sells bootleg disks of movies and games out of the trunk of his car in front of my neighborhood corner store - I don't know if they work or not, of if they have some kind of PS3 virus, but they're cheap and he promotes current titles.

Console games are only ever going to be as difficult to pirate as the copy protection on the disks is to crack.  It seems like any time the industry comes out with new copy protection, the pirates have it cracked in a few days.

If your nephew is playing pirated games on his Xbox 360 then yes, it is most definitely modded. But just because you know someone who seems to be knee-deep in console piracy, doesn't mean it's "widespread" or occurs moreso than PC piracy. Generally console piracy is a pain in the ass, since you have to do some fairly significant hardware modification (save for the Dreamcast, which is what killed it) to your game console to achieve it. Then there's also the fact that your console (these days) will eventually get caught on Xbox LIVE/PSN/Whatever, and be permanently banned.

On the PC though, piracy is a matter of going to a bittorrent site and downloading the (probably already cracked) game. No hardware modding, no banning from gaming networks, nothing. The ease and frequency of PC game piracy is the reason for much of the ridiculous DRM measures some publishers (like Ubisoft) are taking. It's also one of the reasons PC game sales, and thus PC game development, are on a serious decline.

You do know that EA is a great believer in Drms..right?   Punkbuster for Warhammer...there's another one they have too.  Probably several more...just pointing that out for general knowledge.

[joey_mork84]

Kimarous wrote...

HAHA!! classic! I'm stealing this. lmao

[Feraele]

Not the cute little fuzzy trolls...nooooooo *blink*

[krylo]

Dichotomize wrote...


If your nephew is playing pirated games on his Xbox 360 then yes, it is most definitely modded. But just because you know someone who seems to be knee-deep in console piracy, doesn't mean it's "widespread" or occurs moreso than PC piracy. Generally console piracy is a pain in the ass, since you have to do some fairly significant hardware modification

It's extremely widespread in South American countries.  Modded consoles and pirated games are more or less the only games one can get there.  I wouldn't say it happens more than PC piracy, because, yes, PC piracy IS easier, however you're vastly understating the problem and overstating the difficulty of doing it.  People make money selling consoles that are already altered, and to people who know how, it's no harder than say... swapping out a CPU in a computer.

(save for the Dreamcast, which is what killed it)

So console piracy isn't wide spread but it killed the DC?

Piracy didn't kill the Dreamcast.  Releasing a next gen machine too close to the last gen, with little to no third party support, Sega's increasingly terrible first party software division/decisions, a small library and a lack of advertising/distribution for their games killed the Dreamcast.  I have one.  I was only ever able to find two or three games that looked interesting on shelves, and never saw any advertised.

Though Crazy Taxi is still pretty fun, and I did enjoy the little minigame Time Stalkers put on my 'memory card'.  It was a cool system and I wish they hadn't made so many mistakes with it--but blaming it's death on piracy is just silly.

Modifié par krylo, 09 mars 2010 - 09:32 .

[krylo]

Feraele wrote...
You do know that EA is a great believer in Drms..right?   Punkbuster for Warhammer...there's another one they have too.  Probably several more...just pointing that out for general knowledge.

EA seems to have backed up on the DRM train.  Activision (the new evil empire) and Ubisoft are picking up on it, though.

[Stonetwister]

While I agree that the price of this expansion seems a bit high, considering it doesn't sound like it will have as much gameplay as the original and it IS an expansion, after all, the original poster is acting like someone is forcing him to buy the game. If you don't like the price, then don't buy the game. It's not like Bioware is going to drop the price because you howled and made an ass out of yourself.

On the plus side, the price always comes down later. Just wait a bit and it will get closer to your preferred price range, I'm sure.

[Bryy_Miller]

krylo wrote...

Feraele wrote...
You do know that EA is a great believer in Drms..right?   Punkbuster for Warhammer...there's another one they have too.  Probably several more...just pointing that out for general knowledge.

EA seems to have backed up on the DRM train.  ... Ubisoft are picking up on it, though.

That ended up working so well for them.

[Dichotomize]

krylo wrote...

(save for the Dreamcast, which is what killed it)

So console piracy isn't wide spread but it killed the DC?

Piracy didn't kill the Dreamcast.  Releasing a next gen machine too close to the last gen, with little to no third party support, Sega's increasingly terrible first party software division/decisions, a small library and a lack of advertising/distribution for their games killed the Dreamcast.  I have one.  I was only ever able to find two or three games that looked interesting on shelves, and never saw any advertised

It seems like you're attempting to point out some sort of flaw in the logic of my comment, but I did clearly single out the Dreamcast as an exception. The reason Dreamcast piracy was so rampant on the Dreamcast was because the system required no sort of hardware modification what so ever to play pirated copies of game. And yes, piracy DID kill the Dreamcast. The system itself sold fairly well during the time it was on store shelves, but here's the thing, console manufacturers makes their money back based on GAME sales. Not hardware sales. I'm sure you're aware that it's commonplace for console manufacurers to lose money on each console sold. That money is recouped from game sales. Unfortunately because of the ease of piracy on the Dreamcast, it eventually got to a point where the major of owners were pirating, not buying. THAT is what killed the Dreamcast.

[Noir201]

Ah dreamcast, remember you well

[joey_mork84]

Noir201 wrote...

Ah dreamcast, remember you well

I was a big fan of Sega Saturn. I played it more than my original Playstation, back when I still had both systems.

[Kimarous]

joey_mork84 wrote...

Kimarous wrote...

HAHA!! classic! I'm stealing this. lmao

Heh... glad you like it. Made it myself.

[worksa8]

Yeah Oblivion did do DLC better then Bioware did...

[Kimarous]

worksa8 wrote...

Yeah Oblivion did do DLC better then Bioware did...

I always get confused when people say this. Oblivion's DLC consisted of several houses that are way out in the boondocks and sometimes allow for "lolexploiting" of Alchemy skills, completely pointless horse armor, a magic dagger that is even further out in the boondocks, a quest line that just seems to strip me of shrine bonuses and my infamy, and then the awesome Shivering Isles.

Warden's Keep and Return to Ostagar may not be huge, but they expanded the story, kept me interested, and at least had some half-decent loot. Oh, and they weren't out in the boondocks.

[krylo]

Dichotomize wrote...

It seems like you're attempting to point out some sort of flaw in the logic of my comment, but I did clearly single out the Dreamcast as an exception. The reason Dreamcast piracy was so rampant on the Dreamcast was because the system required no sort of hardware modification what so ever to play pirated copies of game. And yes, piracy DID kill the Dreamcast. The system itself sold fairly well during the time it was on store shelves, but here's the thing, console manufacturers makes their money back based on GAME sales. Not hardware sales. I'm sure you're aware that it's commonplace for console manufacurers to lose money on each console sold. That money is recouped from game sales. Unfortunately because of the ease of piracy on the Dreamcast, it eventually got to a point where the major of owners were pirating, not buying. THAT is what killed the Dreamcast.

All the other flaws I pointed out existed as well.

And piracy is still easier on a computer than it ever was for the dreamcast.  You needed to use special programs and special discs to burn a DC game (just looked this up).  To pirate things on the internet you just type in, oh let's say, "Vampire  Bloodlines" into a search bar, and load up bit comet.  Could do the same with Dragon Age.  And yet, as of Feburaray 8th it had sold 3.2 million copies, and was called "Triple Platinum" (which it highly deserved.)

Piracy has a much smaller effect on sales than large companies would like you to believe, but I'd really rather not argue about that on a board for a company whose recent forays into DRM have been the equivalent of packaging sweet swag in the game box, except the swag is in game and even sweeter.

Which is to say I don't want to argue about how silly/ridiculous attempts to marginalize profits lost to pirating is when I'm on the board of a company whose most recent attempts to marginalize said profit loss I would fully endorse regardless of the reason.

In short, however, the lost profits that companies try to assign to piracy instead of just manning up and accepting that maybe the game just wasn't that popular, or maybe their advertising wasn't very good, or maybe a thousand other things that aren't pirates might have contributed, just a little bit, to their sales missing margin.

Also on the 'good sales': that's only compared to the N64, and only at first.  The N64 had pretty terrible console sales.  It's something like, 10mil total for the Dreamcast, 30-40mil total for the N64, and 140-150mil total for the PS2.  The N64 had like... what?  Three good games?  The Dreamcast had... um... Powerstone (which was barely advertised and mostly unknown)... I guess?  And Crazy Taxi (which was cross platform).... and yeah, I honestly can't think of any others.

But I guess poor advertising and poor libraries couldn't have possibly hurt Dreamcast or N64 sales once the PS2 was released, eh?  I guess the N64 must have had a lot of pirates too, right?

The failure of the Dreamcast lays solely on Sega's shoulders, and not because they didn't include an anti-piracy chip.

Modifié par krylo, 09 mars 2010 - 11:37 .

[ClonePatrol]

Pubknight wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

 And in actuality (thouygh its never heard because the publishers do not want to believe it) it is easier to copy/hack a console game than it is a pc game...and its more widespread than it is on the pc.

Yeah... going to have to challenge that claim... especially the 'widespread' part.
Have any kind of credible source for that?

You ever soft modded an XBox? It's easy, and lets you copy games to the hard drive. Ever seen a GBA or DS/DSi flash card, also incredibly easy to use. Modding a PSP also simple, and lets you load games to you memory stick duo.
It is all extroardinarily easy to do, there is a huge market for it. A lot do it because it makes them not have to worry about disks or cartridges getting broken. But the amount that do it for theft outnumbers them by far. Back in the day you could get $20 easy for soft modding someones XBox, it would only take a few min. Same for PSP.  Just look up some of the pirate websites the amount of users is staggering. Personally I pay for games, because I don't want to hold any blame for a lack of funds the dev's needed to make a sequel or DLC or so on.
Console piracy is far more wide spread. I've known people at game stores who copy every game that goes come through their door, most games, then upload them to websites where they get paid. within hours there will be hundreds of download if it's a new game, thousands within days. and there are hundreds of websites that do this.

I don't like it though. Sure game companies make a lot of money, and people get rich. but they use their money to make more games, and better games.

On topic though, I don't call BS, that dude is either slow or a troll.

[robotnist]

PiMD360 wrote...

Your cool spending $40 f****** dollars on DLC? It is officially the most expensive DLC today, and f-ing rediculous. I don't have $40 f***** dollars for this s***. That was a stupid move on their part. Lets see how well it sells compared to the rest of their precious DLC.

its cool dude, im with you, i dont have 40$ either so bioware = EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bryy_Miller]

joey_mork84 wrote...

PiMD360 wrote...

Again, just because most of you are fanboys and have noting better to do than sit on Bioware's forums all day and pick peoples posts apart doesn't make you any authority on how I want to spend my money and why I feel I am being robbed.

Being robbed is against your own will. Buying a DLC (reguardless of the price) is COMPLETELY OPTIONAL.

This.

[MassEffect762]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

joey_mork84 wrote...

PiMD360 wrote...

Again, just because most of you are fanboys and have noting better to do than sit on Bioware's forums all day and pick peoples posts apart doesn't make you any authority on how I want to spend my money and why I feel I am being robbed.

Being robbed is against your own will. Buying a DLC (reguardless of the price) is COMPLETELY OPTIONAL.

This.

+1

@OP It's a buisness dude what do you expect, either support it or don't.

[Wicked 702]

I took my father out to dinner this weekend at a fancy restaurant for his birthday. The check for the 3 of us (mother included), including a bottle of wine and tip, came to $220 US dollars. Did I get real value for my money? Hell no. The food was very good but it definitely wasn't 200 dollars good. You'd be hard pressed to argue to me that any one meal is worth that price. So why did I do it then? Because it's all subjective. The feeling of going to a restaurant and being treated to an extravagant meal in and of itself has worth.

The same goes for this expansion (DLC, whatever). If you PERSONALLY feel that the price does not reflect its value, both physical and intrinsic, then by all means don't buy it. I don't even have a problem with the complaining, despite the vulgarity, but I just can't stand people that play the victim role when the obvious solution is to simply not engage in the behavior.

Either that or crawl into a dark hole somewhere and cry yourself to bed....

Modifié par Wicked 702, 10 mars 2010 - 02:41 .

[Bryy_Miller]

MassEffect762 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

joey_mork84 wrote...

PiMD360 wrote...

Again, just because most of you are fanboys and have noting better to do than sit on Bioware's forums all day and pick peoples posts apart doesn't make you any authority on how I want to spend my money and why I feel I am being robbed.

Being robbed is against your own will. Buying a DLC (reguardless of the price) is COMPLETELY OPTIONAL.

This.

+1

@OP It's a buisness dude what do you expect, either support it or don't.

I mean, he COULD argue that he's addicted. Some addled-minded individual would listen.

[Thalorin1919]

Why are people automatically assuming people think Mass Effect 2 is better then DA:O?



Dont get me wrong. I love both games, but I'm just one of those people that love dark fantasy with swords and dragons better then space stuff.



But anyways, I've heard alot that Awakening can take up to 20 or maybe more hours of your one of those do EVERYTHING in the game people, which is me. I dont see why people are complaining about that amount of gameplay costing 40 dollars, and considering how easy 40 dollars is to get.



I just dont get where making a thread topic complaining about this is going to change anything. Bioware has always produced good products from my experience. And I've played most of there games, from KOTOR to ME2. So I wouldnt be worried to much about its length, or quality. Well, let us hope, right? Dont want to get hopes up to high.

[Dichotomize]

krylo wrote...

Also on the 'good sales': that's only compared to the N64, and only at first.  The N64 had pretty terrible console sales.  It's something like, 10mil total for the Dreamcast, 30-40mil total for the N64, and 140-150mil total for the PS2.  The N64 had like... what?  Three good games?  The Dreamcast had... um... Powerstone (which was barely advertised and mostly unknown)... I guess?  And Crazy Taxi (which was cross platform).... and yeah, I honestly can't think of any others.

But I guess poor advertising and poor libraries couldn't have possibly hurt Dreamcast or N64 sales once the PS2 was released, eh?  I guess the N64 must have had a lot of pirates too, right?

The failure of the Dreamcast lays solely on Sega's shoulders, and not because they didn't include an anti-piracy chip.

The Dreamcast was on the market for a total of a YEAR AND A HALF. You can't realistically compare its numbers to those of consoles who enjoyed multi-year life spans. The DC had a number of great exclusive titles, like the 2k sports series, Sonic Adventure, Crazy Taxi, Shenmue, Soulcalibur, Resident Evil Code: Veronica, Jet Grind Radio, Space Channel 5, etc. Before you start waving the "multiplatform" banner around, know that none of those titles were ported to other systems until after the Dreamcast was on its way to the cemetary.

Modifié par Dichotomize, 10 mars 2010 - 09:04 .

[Dichotomize]

Wicked 702 wrote...

I took my father out to dinner this weekend at a fancy restaurant for his birthday. The check for the 3 of us (mother included), including a bottle of wine and tip, came to $220 US dollars. Did I get real value for my money? Hell no. The food was very good but it definitely wasn't 200 dollars good. You'd be hard pressed to argue to me that any one meal is worth that price. So why did I do it then? Because it's all subjective. The feeling of going to a restaurant and being treated to an extravagant meal in and of itself has worth.

Well diddy for you for being able to afford such an endeavor. Not all of us are so fortunate.

[ObserverStatus]

As 1up said (paraphrasing)

Is Bioware not entitled to the sweat of it's brow?

No, says the cynical gamer, it belongs on the disc.