35 réponses à ce sujet

[thheNO]

As the title says. I want different opinions on which class(warrior/rogue) is best for dual-wielding. It's several factors that make me uncertain. The warrior probably gets more talents and are better i combat HP and armour wise, but he lacks the natural dodge(evasion) of rouges and their bonus to dexterity.

I am probably going to use a couple of pretty large swords(tempest/fighter/weapon master in Neverwinter Nights<3), so strenght may also be an factor(tips in the warriors favour) So what class is best?

Modifié par thheNO, 17 octobre 2009 - 11:16 .

[Herr Uhl]

Warrior is probably always going to be the better straight up fighter. If you just want dual-wield and not the nifty backstab, poison, lockpicking or stealth, go for fighter.

[thheNO]

I know, but the Rouge gets the Duelist subclass......

Only problem is, I don't know what they're abilities does

http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Duelist

And Rouges get Below the Belt, Dirty Fighting and other nifty combat abilities:whistle:

Modifié par thheNO, 17 octobre 2009 - 11:28 .

[SwankyMcSwish]

You pretty much summed it up. Really, it depends on your playstyle.

Because the dual-wielding skillset is consistent between the two classes, it, more or less, depends on the skills and attributes of the class. A warrior (generally) is going to possess a higher constitution and strength, providing them with greater health and damage. Alternatively, a rogue is going to have a higher cunning and dexterity, increasing their evasion and... I can't recall what cunning is used for. Skills-wise, a warrior is going to focus on increasing their health and using stances which increase or decrease their aggro, whereas a rogue will focus on greater spike damage.

Modifié par SwankyMcSwish, 17 octobre 2009 - 11:32 .

[Herr Uhl]

Duelist is probably going to be DW-based. I would go for the rouge, but then again I prefer rouges to fighters in almost every way.

[minamber]

Cunning is also used for armor piercing i think. Overall, provided the rogue can get a backstab in at the start of the fight, he should be able to do more damage. On the other hand, a rogue can't tank and would probably die pretty quick if the enemy concentrated on him.

It's your choice whether you want more options out-of-combat and slightly higher dps on average or much greater survivability.

[thheNO]

My main consern is if Rogues get less Talents(and more skills) than Warriors. If that's not the case, then I'm going rouge xD

Hopefully someone knows the answer to this, because I'm dying to finish a character

EDIT: Do Rouges get an ability to use dexterity on extra damage instead of strenght? I know that they can use cunning on attack bonus....

Modifié par thheNO, 17 octobre 2009 - 11:43 .

[relentlessimp]

I think Rogue will be better, if backstabs work with every attack. The extra damage from multiple backstabs will outdo that of a face-to-face combatant in sheer damage. So if you're getting a high number of backstabs in from being behind your opponent constantly, you'll be doing more damage than the guy in front.



But that's only if backstabs A) work with every attack you make, you can stay behind the opponent and backstab to your heart's content, and C) nothing interrupts your flow of attacks.

[thheNO]

If it is remotely the same as in NWN, backstabs will occur evey attack, so long as your opponent is being flanked or flat-footed(I'm not quite certain what that did )

[Robert Emerald]

It can be anyone, it all depends on how you develope your characters.

[minamber]

Every class get the same number of talent points afaik, 2 at lvl 1 and 1 per level after that. If you don't put any point into archery, you should be able to max your dual-wield tree as a rogue, as well as a large part of the rogue tree.

[DeviantJoker]

thheNO wrote...

My main consern is if Rogues get less Talents(and more skills) than Warriors. If that's not the case, then I'm going rouge xD

Hopefully someone knows the answer to this, because I'm dying to finish a character

I was never under the assumption Rogues got less talents then Warriors. From the last I heard, and I have been relatively slacking on DAO news since the CC came out - they all got the same amount of skills.

EDIT: Do Rouges get an ability to use dexterity on extra damage instead of strenght?

Under the current list of the base talents for Rogue - no. I cannot say for specializations, for I do not know.

Modifié par DeviantJoker, 18 octobre 2009 - 12:03 .

[GhoXen]

@DeviantJoker



What he meant was that rogue gets fewer talent points than warriors will. Warriors get one talent point every level, rogues get one talent point every two levels; rogues get one skill point every level, warriors get one skill point every two levels.



I think that's how things will work in DAO, though I am not completely sure and please correct me if I am wrong.

[DeviantJoker]

GhoXen wrote...

@DeviantJoker
Warriors get one talent point every level, rogues get one talent point every two levels

That is utterly news to me. I won't say you're wrong because I do not know where your source from, but I've seen nothing recently that would contradict my belief  that all the classes get 1 Talent per Level (excluding some special cases when extra talents are picked up, though I believe this is for game events and not due to level).

Modifié par DeviantJoker, 18 octobre 2009 - 12:38 .

[Aleksandrov]

As everyone has already referenced it depends on your playing style.

To me as I RP a lot, I would choose more of Shield/Sword or Two-Handed for a coarse, rough-talking warrior type.

Dual-wielding is rogue-territory for me.

[Adrigaar]

it depends how you want to play if you want to dual wield swords and stand infront of your enemy carving them up then i think warrior will be better for this probably using some of the specialisations to get extra strength/constitution (or anything that adds to damage dealt or incoming damage negation) however if you want to use skills to stun, run round behind and basically PLAY yourcharacter instead of just letting him sit there and hack away, rogue will be better. especially when using daggers.



quick note: dexterity adds to the damage done by daggers and arrows so because you need 36 dexterity regardless of if your rogue or warrior, using daggers will give a nice big bonus to your damage, if you were going warrior you would still need to get your dex to 36 to dual wield swords (also cuts down stamina use from skills so useful for dual wielding daggers) and that gives alot less stat points to spend on strength constitution and willpower (willpower always needed to fuel your skills) however playing as a rogue you only need enough strength to equip the daggers (more than likely minimal) and very little constitution because you get passives giving you better evasion etc. + high dex = taking very few hits. meaning all you need to put your other stat points into is willpower and cunning, with lethality cunning replaces strength so say a lvl 25-30 cunning gives a decent base damage + bonus damage from high dex + as a rogue u can stun(or otherwise incapacitate, paralyse petrify etc. etc.) and when the enemy is stunned a passive means all attacks are backstabs = huge damage



i think rogues will have good single target DPS and passable AoE if you take their AoE skill chain but probably warriors will last longer in a fight so they would be better at taking out large groups.

[GhoXen]

@Adrigaar



Well, it may not be necessary or worthwhile to get the final dual wield talent(which needs 36 DEX). What that allows is dual-wielding full sized weapons in both hands. Full sized weapons will depend on Str for damage and not Dex, unlike daggers. On the other hand, if the rogue/warrior ignores the last dual wield talent, all that's required is 28/30 Dex for Punisher/Whirlwind.



A warrior who sticks to main hand full weapon and offhand dagger will always benefit more from stacking Str than stacking more Dex than necessary. A rogue who purely stacks Dex will end up with a lot of misses.

[hOnOr]

It's worthwhile noting in this discussion that rogues have a talent (Lethality) that allow the rogue to use their cunning instead of strength for damage calculations.

[Adrigaar]

@GhoXen



it doesnt just allow for dual wielding full size weapons, if reduces the stamina use, meaning you dont need as much max stamina (willpower) free-ing up more stat points making it still quite useful for dual wielding daggers.



Also i dont see why any1 would go pure dex (as in every stat point into dex ignoring everything else) as they wouldnt be able to hit anything.. my point was that for a warrior, getting the 36 dex for dual weapon mastery leaves very little stat points for strength and constitution and willpower, however a rogue only needs cunning and willpower.



I dont see why a rogue with a decent build, 36 dex, rest balanced between cunning and willpower with just enough strength and constitution to equip items would miss. dex contributes to the chances to hit, the other contributor for melee weapons being strength unless rogues get lethality (almost always going to happen) in which case its cunning.. cunning+dex being two stats a rogue will definately have i dont understand why they would miss??



Sure if a warrior stuck with 26/30 dex and didnt get dual weapon mastery they would have more stats points to play around with, but seeing as they also have more stats that are critical to them that kinda balances out leaving them with overall less skill uses per battle (because of stamina, whilst willpower might be around the same as a rogue they wouldnt have the stamina cost reduction from dual weapon mastery so they still cant use as many skills) meaning that you are very much dependant on being able to just stand in front of the enemy and pound them with auto-attacks. as i mentioned that tactic might work for a warrior, being able to take more damage and everything, but its not the play-style i personally prefer for dual weapons, i always think dual weapons should be fast, darting attacks, dancing around the target etc. etc.



Note: incase it wasnt clear, that last WAS a personal opinion and i accept that not everyone agrees with it and frankly if everyone did the world would be rather boring, just outlining what MY idea of a dual weapon character should me

[Tyrax Lightning]

I'm goin off the deep end & attempting to make a dwarf commoner rogue that is gonna try 36 dex with Dual Weapon Mastery, 22 Cunning, & try to get my Str high enough for 1H double bladed axes!  If I have any points leftover afterwards, the rest will go into Willpower for more skill usage.

I would hope Bioware would have planned on willpower bein hard to prioritize, along with the other stats all the various classes will need as well.

There's gotta be a way to dual wield big weapons & have Dual Weapon Mastery at the same time, or Dual Weapon Mastery is gonna be a gimp skill.

[GhoXen]

@Adrigaar



Do excuse my preference of dual-wield fighting. After nearly two years of being a fury warrior, I'm pretty much stuck with the idea of slow, powerful successions of dual-wield attacks rather than daggers.



The issue with willpower/stamina may still depend on some other factors. It's a lot similar to a rogue's energy in WoW. Depending on the actual amount of reduction dual wield mastery brings, it may not improve the DPS output and it may even disrupt an efficient skill cycle. I hope the stamina usage reduction is something significant along the lines of 15%-30%, since 36 DEX is quite expensive.



Hm, now I wonder if there is a cap for each stat at 40.

[DeviantJoker]

My pre-build taps my Rogue at Str23 Dex36 Will20 Magic11 Cun30 Con22. That is, of course, subject to change as I figure out the weapon and armor I wish to wear - but truthfully, after learning of Chris' rogue, I can't imagine much will shift greatly except - Willpower itself, which I might have underestimated how much Stamina I would need for my talents to balance Stamina Regen with possibly the fatigue incurred by Armor as well as the high-cost of abilities while maintaining some usefulness in damage output.

For reference, here is Chris' Level 22 Rogue. Link . Do note that this Rogue as an extra +17 attribute points that may possibly come from any number of items, events or perhaps even extra attribute points we do not know about.

Modifié par DeviantJoker, 18 octobre 2009 - 03:11 .

[Wayne_Carrion]

I believe Rogues and high dexterity characters make the best dual wielding fighters. However, it also depends on how you plan on using those characters. If you use them as a tank, you are going to do your fair share of dying.

[Maria Caliban]

thheNO wrote...

As the title says. I want different opinions on which class(warrior/rogue) is best for dual-wielding.

Warrior.

[b09boy]

In a straight up fight, warriors will have more potential. Just like they will with any other weapon. Yes, rogues get lethality, evasion, duelist, etc. Warriors meanwhile get a lot of bonuses to physical resistance, armor, stamina, damage and the like with their base class alone. Bring in the berserker specialization on top of that and you've got one helluva straight up fighter no matter the weapon of choice.



But in the end it really depends which role you the character to play. Warriors and rogues should fulfill different roles even if they're using the same weapons.