290 réponses à ce sujet

[Echidnalexx]

I feel like i'm taking crazy pills, how does nobody realise how awesome squad cryo ammo is? you literally just freeze everything after a few shots completely nullifying any threat to you or your squad, leaving you to kill them easily.

[termokanden]

There have been plenty of discussions about this skill on the forums. I personally find it a bit overpowered almost.

But others do not even find it useful at all. Can't say I understand this, but I think that is the conclusion to draw from what I've seen here. I guess it depends a lot on your playstyle and choice of other powers.

[Praetor Knight]

With squad cryo I wonder if its usefulness depends on difficulty. Where on Insanity, Cryo is awesome anywhere to slow then stop the enemy bullet spam, with CC being very useful.

Then on lower difficulties, it is simply better to destroy the enemy fast with as much damage as possible. From what I've read in other threads, the enemies die really fast, so CC is less important as a result.

[Kronner]

It also depends on how you use Squad Cryo Ammo (SCA). For example, I have it on virtually all Vanguards, but that's only because Shockwave sucks. I use Inferno Ammo for Shepard and SCA for squadmates - and I very, very rarely notice any effect from SCA.

Totally different story when it comes to my Shotgun Infiltrator. I used SCA for Shepard AND squadmates and we just froze (disabled) everyone all the time.

Modifié par Kronner, 23 mars 2011 - 06:15 .

[jasonsantanna]

SCA is great, I think most ppl that shy away from it tend to look for damage pts from ammo powers , I for one was the same until I gave it to my squad with my Vanguard they would freeze 'em then I'd charge and smash , then I started doing the same with my soldier and Infiltrator , its so cool , I can't stop thinking if the old cryo ammo or what it was called in ME1 was any good I only used tungsten and that chemical ammo all the time.

[termokanden]

It isn't the same thing in ME1. Targets are debuffed but don't actually freeze. Many people like to use Shredder or AP Rounds in ME1 depending on the target type.

I liked to use Polynomium Rounds just for the melting effect. Sledgehammer was fun with shotguns, and High Explosive X combined with a sniper rifle (with rail extensions of course) was overpowered

[Alamar2078]

Echidnalexx wrote...

I feel like i'm taking crazy pills, how does nobody realise how awesome squad cryo ammo is? you literally just freeze everything after a few shots completely nullifying any threat to you or your squad, leaving you to kill them easily.

Keep chewin' the pills

You already know the pluses & minuses ... I would assume it's obvious from your post that your playstyle lends well to the situations where Cryo ammo shines.  A different playstyle [like mine] would not benefit nearly as much.

IMHO Vanguards or other CQC builds tend to benefit most from SCA.  My Vanguards though don't care much.  If someone doesn't have defenses they either aren't a great target to charge OR I would charge them anyway [before my lazy teammates freeze them] because they're tossed away and I'll shoot [and kill] the guy with defenses that was standing next to him.

My problems with SCA are just like others said:

-- Enemies do not SNAP freeze so they are active for a while [still firing] before they freeze up.  I'm usually happier with a more immediate ammo power [Inferno or Disruptor] if the target is succeptable to such.

-- If you are keeping your distance and sniping / casting having the enemies fall down BEHIND cover just means they are protected for that period of time and you don't kill them [if you keep your distance]

-- The ammo power doesn't help strip defenses and IMHO an enemy is most powerful when it has defenses.  I'd rather have their defenses stripped before they get to me as I have higher impact options of dealing with them then.

If I want to take an enemy out of action for a second I'm happier with Throw, Pull, Slam, Stasis, or any other power as I find it easier to chain into better combos with these ....

YMMV

Devil's Advocate:  SCA [in my last Vanguard run] did help at times.  I just wish I had a better choice than Shockwave or SCA as a "core" power.

[jasonsantanna]

Alamar2078 wrote...

Echidnalexx wrote...

I feel like i'm taking crazy pills, how does nobody realise how awesome squad cryo ammo is? you literally just freeze everything after a few shots completely nullifying any threat to you or your squad, leaving you to kill them easily.

Keep chewin' the pills

You already know the pluses & minuses ... I would assume it's obvious from your post that your playstyle lends well to the situations where Cryo ammo shines.  A different playstyle [like mine] would not benefit nearly as much.

IMHO Vanguards or other CQC builds tend to benefit most from SCA.  My Vanguards though don't care much.  If someone doesn't have defenses they either aren't a great target to charge OR I would charge them anyway [before my lazy teammates freeze them] because they're tossed away and I'll shoot [and kill] the guy with defenses that was standing next to him.

My problems with SCA are just like others said:

-- Enemies do not SNAP freeze so they are active for a while [still firing] before they freeze up.  I'm usually happier with a more immediate ammo power [Inferno or Disruptor] if the target is succeptable to such.

-- If you are keeping your distance and sniping / casting having the enemies fall down BEHIND cover just means they are protected for that period of time and you don't kill them [if you keep your distance]

-- The ammo power doesn't help strip defenses and IMHO an enemy is most powerful when it has defenses.  I'd rather have their defenses stripped before they get to me as I have higher impact options of dealing with them then.

If I want to take an enemy out of action for a second I'm happier with Throw, Pull, Slam, Stasis, or any other power as I find it easier to chain into better combos with these ....

YMMV

Devil's Advocate:  SCA [in my last Vanguard run] did help at times.  I just wish I had a better choice than Shockwave or SCA as a "core" power.

Your right about it not stripping defenses , I usually use DA or IA for myself if I'm a soldier and strip shields or armor and let the squad use Cryo Ammo to freeze foes then I follow up with kill shoots where its possible, it works out better than all 3 of use using it.
At least for my strategy .

[RA RA XD]

Yo Average Gatsby, What's your take on using Warp ammo as a bonus power?

[Praetor Knight]

RA RA XD wrote...

Yo Average Gatsby, What's your take on using Warp ammo as a bonus power?

I could give you my take.

For maxing damage it's very nice against the Collectors. What difficulty? Hardcore and below it works well enough as a BP.

But generally, Inferno is a better option for the soldier, since the damage from ammo powers are a small fractional improvement on the base damage of the gun, and the CC effects are more helpful.

So, instead of a Bonus Ammo Power, I like to get Squad Cryo, and going with a 3-second Bonus Power like Slam or Neural Shock. A one point Flashbang Grenade can also work for Harby missions, so it can't attack you at all.

[Bourne Endeavor]

RA RA XD wrote...

Yo Average Gatsby, What's your take on using Warp ammo as a bonus power?

Warp is somewhat redundant for a Soldier, as they have access to Inferno Ammo, which is necessary to unlock the heavily favored Cryo Ammo (Squad Cryo). Frankly, a good option is to forego a bonus power entirely. Concussive Shot is quite efficient and an underutilized power by many. You definitely want to maximize the Soldier's existing powers, so the one point would be wasteful on something like Flashbang. Slam is decent but I prefer Concussive Shot for the rare instances an alternative is required. You hardly have to worry about secondary powers, since you should spam Adrenaline Rush like no tomorrow, especially if you run the Mattock/Widow combo.

I should note I disagree heavily with AG's recommendation of Tungsten Ammo. Statistics have chosen it is wholly worthless due to the very negligible damage benefit. You are much better off with Squad Cryo and Inferno Ammo. Squad Disruptor Ammo will cover shields, although excluding Geth missions, Cryo is usually better.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 30 juillet 2011 - 01:44 .

[nocbl2]

I like to use Reave, the Mattock and AR all in combination to take down enemies. AR and Matty for protections, and then have Reave to kill health

[RA RA XD]

I have no interest in squad cryo. I used it on my vanguard character and found the time taken to freeze an enemy slightly too long. I still use inferno ammo against husks, bloodpack and other swarming enemies. Warp ammo still does +50.00% while inferno still only does +60.00%, a mere 10% difference.

[Praetor Knight]

RA RA XD wrote...

I have no interest in squad cryo. I used it on my vanguard character and found the time taken to freeze an enemy slightly too long. I still use inferno ammo against husks, bloodpack and other swarming enemies. Warp ammo still does +50.00% while inferno still only does +60.00%, a mere 10% difference.

There's a bit more going on with how ammo powers are applied than a 10% difference. And the damage they provide becomes less useful as you level also.

Check out this post from a dev: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/261/index/1143264#1144251

And if you are interested, Bozorgmehr calculated the damage Warp ammo would do on the Mattock with a 15 power damage boost (like using Commando on the Soldier), in the Gameplay data section here: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/261/index/2841785/

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 30 juillet 2011 - 03:08 .

[RA RA XD]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

RA RA XD wrote...

I have no interest in squad cryo. I used it on my vanguard character and found the time taken to freeze an enemy slightly too long. I still use inferno ammo against husks, bloodpack and other swarming enemies. Warp ammo still does +50.00% while inferno still only does +60.00%, a mere 10% difference.

There's a bit more going on with how ammo powers are applied than a 10% difference. And the damage they provide becomes less useful as you level also.

Check out this post from a dev: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/261/index/1143264#1144251

And if you are interested, Bozorgmehr calculated the damage Warp ammo would do on the Mattock with a 15 power damage boost (like using Commando on the Soldier), in the Gameplay data section here: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/261/index/2841785/

Thanks for the links correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems Heavy warp ammo can serve as a an alternative to cryo ammo (in a biotically oriented squad) as both frozen enemies and enemies affected by biotics take double damage (heavy warp ammo essential for the latter). And yeah, concussive shot still seems totally redundant as anything but a crowd control power comparable to throw or slam, a role squad members can easily fill.

[Praetor Knight]

RA RA XD wrote...

it seems Heavy warp ammo can serve as a an alternative to cryo ammo (in a biotically oriented squad) as both frozen enemies and enemies affected by biotics take double damage (heavy warp ammo essential for the latter).

Yeah, that could work, what's neat about ME2 is the flexibility of builds and how effective different builds can be.

Also, Jack and Samara have good cooldown bonuses in their passives, so they can be really nice pull bots for Warp ammo