Aller au contenu

Photo

Soldier (Insanity and below) Guide/Tips/Help


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
290 réponses à ce sujet

#201
Guest_kajtarp_*

Guest_kajtarp_*
  • Guests

MrNose wrote...

For Shock Troopers on Insanity (those who gear most everything towards improved health), I would still use Heightened Adrenaline Rush. I've used both Heightened and Hardened with that build, and the extra versatility that comes with Heightened's improved accuracy increases survivability more imo. In levels with tons of shooters, there are just too many times when getting up close = instant death.


I was experiencing today. Yeah i know alot of time passed after the first post of this topic, but i was mostly playing with other classes.

Im using the Vindicator assault rifle, and the Widow in my 3rd build.

Commando or Shock Trooper with Heightened Adrenaline Rush allows me to shoot two 3round burst under one adrenaline rush.

Commando with Hardened allowed me 3.

Shock Trooper with Hardened allowed me 4.

Four 3round burst is just insane, played the collector ship level, using Jack's squad warp ammo. Two 3round burst was needed to kill a collector, so with that build, i could kill 2 collector with one adrenaline rush using the Vindicator.

Also, with Hardened, im able to shoot twice with the Eviscerator, while with Heightened i can shoot only once.

Two burst with +140% or 4 burst with +100% using the Vindicator, or one shot with +140, or 2 with +100 using the Eviscerator.

For me its obvious that Hardened Adrenaline Rush and Shock Trooper wins. I love this build even more, then my Revenant build.

Modifié par kajtarp, 26 septembre 2010 - 06:23 .


#202
sinosleep

sinosleep
  • Members
  • 3 038 messages
Wait, you can get off two evi shots with shock trooper and hardened?

#203
Guest_kajtarp_*

Guest_kajtarp_*
  • Guests

sinosleep wrote...

Wait, you can get off two evi shots with shock trooper and hardened?


if i remember right, thats possible even with commando+hardened. but with heightened even shock trooper cant help to have two.

#204
sinosleep

sinosleep
  • Members
  • 3 038 messages
Actually I was thinking of another shotgun, whoops. I did the two evi shots with a commando hardened build on my weapon comparison vid.

#205
Guest_kajtarp_*

Guest_kajtarp_*
  • Guests
actually i still dont like your comparisons. It makes the Eviscerator look bad, even if its capable of killing normal troops with one shot from close range. Or for stronger troops melee between the shots. Love it much more with my Vanguards and Soldiers then the Katana or the Scimitar...



What other shotgun btw?

#206
RGFrog

RGFrog
  • Members
  • 2 011 messages
muaahaha, the claymore almost locks another thread :)


#207
sinosleep

sinosleep
  • Members
  • 3 038 messages

kajtarp wrote...

actually i still dont like your comparisons. It makes the Eviscerator look bad, even if its capable of killing normal troops with one shot from close range. Or for stronger troops melee between the shots. Love it much more with my Vanguards and Soldiers then the Katana or the Scimitar...

What other shotgun btw?


It is what it is man, hence the disclaimer on the first vid. But my comparison vids are off topic so if you want to discuss em it's off to PM.

#208
Athenau

Athenau
  • Members
  • 728 messages
You don't need shock trooper to get two evi shots under hardened. Commando works fine.

The neat thing about hardened AR + evi is that the timing meshes perfectly. You get two shots under AR, the third out of AR, then just as you finish reloading your AR recharges and you can do it all over again. So 2 out of 3 shots get the benefit of AR.

#209
Guest_kajtarp_*

Guest_kajtarp_*
  • Guests
Yes, but for Vindicator Shock Trooper means 4 burst, instead of 3.

#210
ezrafetch

ezrafetch
  • Members
  • 535 messages

kajtarp wrote...

Yes, but for Vindicator Shock Trooper means 4 burst, instead of 3.


No, it doesn't.  Combat Mastery (and any of its evolutions) lack attack speed modifiers.  The only thing affecting RoF in AR is the evolution of AR you take.  And even then, even with the Vindicator the extra DPS from an extra burst is not particularly significant...even with perfect accuracy.

#211
Guest_kajtarp_*

Guest_kajtarp_*
  • Guests

ezrafetch wrote...

kajtarp wrote...

Yes, but for Vindicator Shock Trooper means 4 burst, instead of 3.


No, it doesn't.  Combat Mastery (and any of its evolutions) lack attack speed modifiers.  The only thing affecting RoF in AR is the evolution of AR you take.  And even then, even with the Vindicator the extra DPS from an extra burst is not particularly significant...even with perfect accuracy.


:blink:

Dude dont ****** me off, Shock trooper gives +15% power duration(AR lasts 5,75 sec instead of 5) bonus and Adrenaline Rush gives +100% damage. The extra 15% duration grants one more burst under AR.  One more burst under AR means 2 burst outside AR.

Lets see, Base damage of the Vindi is 36,8. it gets +25% bonus vs armor/shields/barriers by default. penetration upgrade means another +25%. Lets use squad warp ammo from Jack. it means +35%. Shock Trooper gives you +9% damage. I wont count the N7 armor bonuses now, I have the Visor(+10%hs damage) equipped.

Thats 1.25*1.25*1.35*1.09=2,3 vs barriers/armor and health on a level against collectors

36,8(base damage)*2,3(damage modifiers)*3(becouse you shoot a 3round burst)=253,92 damage, under AR its doubled=507,84 damage.

Thats pretty significant difference for me :devil:

Modifié par kajtarp, 27 septembre 2010 - 07:25 .


#212
implodinggoat

implodinggoat
  • Members
  • 1 822 messages
I'm surprised you guys go for the Shock Trooper + Hardened Combo when you're using high accuracy assault rifles like the Vindicator or Mattock instead of the Commando + Heightened Combo.



I realize you can get twice as many shots off with the Vindicator (and nearly twice as many with the Mattock); but on Insanity or even Hardcore difficult I found that I was running low on Vindicator or Mattock ammo very frequently if I didn't spec myself out as a Commando with Heightened Adrenaline Rush.



Shocktrooper and Hardened is definitely the way to go if you're rolling with the Revenant; but if you're rolling with a Vindicator or Mattock I really think Heightened + Commando is superior. Granted you can't drop multiple targets quite as quick; but you also don't have to sweat about ammo nearly as much and of course maximizing the damage per shot also does wonders for the Widow.

#213
Guest_kajtarp_*

Guest_kajtarp_*
  • Guests
Using what you say, i can have 2 burst under a heightened AR, did the math and its 642 damage. I can do that twice, so thats 1285 damage.



With my method i can shoot 4 times and its 4*507damage wich is somewhat around 2000.



Also with hardened, i can make 2 shots with my shotgun, with heightened only one.



Ammo was never a problem, and even if i run out of ammo, i still have the carnifex/eviscerator/Widow. Actually, im using all of them, just becouse i like it that way.

#214
Guest_kajtarp_*

Guest_kajtarp_*
  • Guests
Tried the Collector Ship level. With Heightened i could kill one collector under one AR, with hardened i could 2. That pretty much means ill stick with that build.

#215
Athenau

Athenau
  • Members
  • 728 messages
Heightened is better for the Mattock since you can get 15 shots (4 sec duration in insanity = 1.2 seconds game time * 12.5 shots/sec = 15 shots) which is pretty much the entire mag.

#216
sinosleep

sinosleep
  • Members
  • 3 038 messages
I have a hard time getting to 15 shots under heightened. I remember someone else saying you could go through the whole clip just like with hardened but I couldn't manage it.

#217
Tony Gunslinger

Tony Gunslinger
  • Members
  • 544 messages
Just played around on Achera. With the Mattock I can do 16 easily with Hardened. On Heightened I average about 12, the difference between Shock and Commando was 1 or 2 shots, just barely. So 16 vs. 12 shots, with Shock Trooper not making much difference.

Hardened does +100% damage, Heightened does +140%. Someone help me with the math...

Heightened Mattock damage factor is 12 + 12(1.4) = 28.8

Hardened Mattack damage factor is 16 + 16(1) = 32

Is that right?

With the Vindy, Hardened Commando did 3 bursts, and Hardened Shock did 4. Heightened Comando did 2, and Heightened Shock did... 2. The 3rd burst got off exactly as AR ended.

#218
Guest_kajtarp_*

Guest_kajtarp_*
  • Guests

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

Hardened does +100% damage, Heightened does +140%. Someone help me with the math...

Heightened Mattock damage factor is 12 + 12(1.4) = 28.8

Hardened Mattack damage factor is 16 + 16(1) = 32

Is that right?


Yes, 12*2,4=28,8 and 16*2=32.

Count your Mattock damage like this :

(This is from the wiki)
Base Damage: 50.4
Damage Multipliers
Armor: x1.3
Shields: x1.2
Barriers: x1.2

If you have the +25% Penetration upgrade it means another 25%.

So like this 50,8*1.3/1.2(armor or shield/barrier)*1.25(penetration upgrade)*ammo power(1.4 for 40%, 1.5 for 50% and so on)*1.09/1.15(Commando or Shock Trooper)*2/2.4(Heightened or Hardened). Count your shots then, how much you can do under one AR with both type and do the math.

Watch for ammo powers becouse for example disruptor gives extra vs shields but does nothing vs health, or incendiary/ap ammo gives extra vs health and armor, but no extra vs shields, warp gives extra vs health/armor/barrier but not vs shields so that can complicate the math.

Also one more thing, Commando gives you +15% power damage, wich applies to ammo powers. so for example if your using level 3 incendiary ammo, its 0.4*1.15=46% damage bonus vs armor and health. But it only applies for your own ammo power, if you get ammo power from squadmate, it doesnt apply.

Did the math for you, lets use for example squad warp ammo from Jack and lets assume your Shock Trooper.

Your damage is: 50.8*1.2*1.25*1.35*1.09=112 damage

112*28,8=3225,6
112*32=3584

so its like +11% damage with Hardened as Shock Trooper.

I only know that hardened was much more convincing for me with my vindicator, then heightened. Sometimes i could manage to kill 2 collector on the collector ship level with one AR(well not guardians or assasins since they are one tough son of a ****es), and took down the 3rd before Harbinger could even summon to the battlefield.

Math for the vindicator:

Lets see, Base damage of the Vindi is
36,8. it gets +25% bonus vs armor/shields/barriers by default.
penetration upgrade means another +25%. Lets use squad warp ammo from
Jack. it means +35%. Shock Trooper gives you +9% damage. I wont count
the N7 armor bonuses now, I have the Visor(+10%hs damage) equipped.
As commando you get 1.15 multiplier  and +15% power damage.( but only for own ammo power, so lets assume my bonus power is warp ammo, and its on level 3, just to have equal numbers 0.35*1.15=0.4, so becouse of Commando i get +40% instead of +35%)

Thats 1.25*1.25*1.35*1.09=2.3 vs barriers/armor and health as Shock Trooper
and 1.25*1.25*1.4*1.15=2.5 as Commando.

36,8(base damage)*2,3(damage modifiers)*3(becouse you shoot a 3round burst)=253,92 damage as Shock Trooper, as Commando its 36,8(base damage)*2,5(damage modifiers)*3(becouse you shoot a 3round burst)=276

With one adrenalin rush:

heightened with commando=276*2.4=662 damage and you can shoot twice, so its 1324 damage
heigthened with shock trooper=253*2.4=607 damage and you can shoot twice, so its 1214 damage
hardened with commando=276*2=552 damage and you can shoot 3 times, so its 1656 damage
hardened with shock trooper=253*2=506 damage, and you can shoot 4 times, so its 2024 damage.

But i agree, my build is not that common, since most of you take the mattock with the widow or the revenant . So maybe with other weapons, heightened with commando can be more efficient. Everybody can do the math for himself or herself :devil:.

Modifié par kajtarp, 28 septembre 2010 - 05:06 .


#219
Tony Gunslinger

Tony Gunslinger
  • Members
  • 544 messages
Sweet, glad I didn't mess up for once. I ignored Commando's +dmg on the Mattock since Shock Trooper didn't add any more shots (practially) for either ARush types, so Commando was the only real option for both ARushes when I compare just on damage. I actually think there are no clear advantages to Hardened vs. Heightened and Mattock vs. Vindicator. Hardened + Mattock does insane damage but I also think you'll be out of ammo very quickly. Hardened + Vindicator can take out common foes without worry about ammo as much. And Hardened vs. Heightened is simply a preference between focusing on either assault rifle or sniper rifle, so it's highly dependant on situations. Even though I prefer to be a Widow sniper, I'd switch to Hardened when I go on the Reaper IFF if I wanted that extra edge.

#220
Guest_kajtarp_*

Guest_kajtarp_*
  • Guests
whats that fuss about husks? i see it everywhere in this forum. they are easiest opponent of the game. get an eviscerator shotgun or your mattock rifle with cryo ammo on any level(even level1 is enough, but squad cryo for the win) and mission completed. you can keep your sniper/pistol ammo for the scions. Also, bring the Avalanche with you :devil:

Modifié par kajtarp, 28 septembre 2010 - 05:59 .


#221
Kaylord

Kaylord
  • Members
  • 315 messages
Unnecessary math deleted.

Modifié par Kaylord, 05 octobre 2010 - 02:00 .


#222
OniGanon

OniGanon
  • Members
  • 4 829 messages

kajtarp wrote...
whats that fuss about husks?


Probably from crazy people who don't have at least 1pt Cryo Ammo.

#223
Kaylord

Kaylord
  • Members
  • 315 messages
I took Improved Geth Shield for an extra 10% of damage for my widow. So no points for Cryo ammo left, sadly.

Unrelated: I am looking forward to how a +65% melee damage kicks butts together with heightened AR... =)

Modifié par Kaylord, 05 octobre 2010 - 03:29 .


#224
OniGanon

OniGanon
  • Members
  • 4 829 messages
Just take out the point from Concussive Shot.

#225
X-Frame

X-Frame
  • Members
  • 818 messages
After reading this whole thread why am I still confused on which build to use for a Widowmaker Soldier?



It looks like most people say Heightened AR w/ Commando and Heavy Warp Ammo as a bonus is the way to go?



With Squad Incendiary/Disruptor Ammo.



Playing on Insanity.