24 réponses à ce sujet

[Curry Noodles]

You have almost no information about Aeducan or Harrowmont, yet you're expected to make a blind choice and set your bridges on fire after doing so, which doesn't sit too well with me.  

I understand it's supposed to be something that makes you feel like a confused outsider, which you are, but I'm wondering: what on earth is the difference between the two candidates?  I ended up supporting harrowmont because the proving sounded cool, but then one of the town criers was shouting about how Aeducan had a more favorable view of casteless.  Is that genuine or just some kind of crazy power play?   

[JEBesh]

Bhelen is a bastard. There's the difference.



Play through the Dwarf Noble origin, and you'll see. It's different coming to Orzammar as an outsider.

[Curry Noodles]

Ah, that's too bad. I was kind of hoping that the decision would be less black and white, where they were both bastards but had favorable aspects, e.g. harrowmont was more honorable and would be able to raise an army more quickly, but bhelen would be better at trade (better armor?) and would help the casteless.

[Necroe-]

well bhelen uses blackmail and any means to "win" including assassinations while harrow "supposedly" promises the same land to two houses

[SyntheticC]

I haven't played my Dwarf Noble yet, either. I definitely think they could have done more with the other NPC's/Views to be more convincing about who you want to support.



It's unfortunate to see that it was such a lacking quest as far as immersion goes with the dialogue (by that I mean basic questions that I would want to ask).



I also went with Harrowmont because as I recall only 1 NPC made a stand about Bhelen being all about winning and nothing else and Harrowmont cared about the people. Oh, and the Codex says something about Harrowmont being like a son to Endrin.



It was very very scarce clues when I could have easily just asked 5-6 dwarves for their opinions on the matter. In actuality the ones you can ask about.. don't make anything sound convincing.. it almost sounds like you're getting played from both ends and you can't really tell who's being honest or even sincere. (Which is sad )

[mohdhm]

bhelen = forgeries, blackmail, assassins.

[Deckus]

The thing with Dwarven nobility that I got from the origin is that they're all pretty two faced and they're all schemers. But I still want to kill treacherous little Bhelen so I'll be pushing Harrowmont to offer me a good deal

[Tankenminnet]

I was expecting both sides to be ****s, but Dragon Age has so far sort of failed to deliver in the shades of grey thingy. Harrowmount is more or less a good old chap who used to be the advisor to the king, and the other dude murdered/plotted out the dwarf noble origin character and his brother. EVIL EVIL EVIL.

[Red Viking]

You don't have a lot to go on if you're playing an origin other than a dwarf and will have to rely on rumors and what other people say about the two candidates. If you've played through the Dwarf Noble origin, however, you'll know that Bhelen is the king of all bastards.

[Berym_temp]

Personally, the moment that decided it for me was when Bhelen said to bring back Branka... or kill her. Harrowmont only asked to try and bring her back.



Until then it was up in the air, and I was working both sides up until that moment. From then on I was Harrowmont all the way.

[Nizel138]

I love the harrowmount gossip guy after you align against the Prince. "Prince Bhelen tries to storm General assembly and assassinate King Harrowmount. Epic fail".

[ElmoraDei]

It's more annoying to pick a side with the dwarven commoner story, because you really get the sense that Bhelen is sleazy, but your sister is in love with him and even gave birth to his son.

[musicalfrog7]

ElmoraDei wrote...

It's more annoying to pick a side with the dwarven commoner story, because you really get the sense that Bhelen is sleazy, but your sister is in love with him and even gave birth to his son.

This exactly. It took me forever to decide. But finally, I decided since I wanted this to be a neutral-ish character that she cared more about making her sister happy than listening to the rumors. (Though, on the other hand, she could have wanted something more for Rica, but I figured, if you vote for Harrowmont, your sister may as well go back to being casteless. I don't know what happens to her if you vote for Harrowmont, sounds interesting.)

[tobajas]

Actually a thing to consider is that while Bhelen does assassinations, forgeries, blackmails etc. He is weird as it is liked by the people. This is clearly shown in the end text without giveing to much away. Also if you keep the anvil of void and branka + side with Harrowmont you'll get to know that actually in fact Harrowmont is quite evil I know this since i sided with him and not Bhelen so got a bit of end text on what happend in orzammar quite alot actually xD



So in my own opinion you got the openly evil guy or the hidden honorable evil guy,

[Red Viking]

ElmoraDei wrote...

It's more annoying to pick a side with the dwarven commoner story, because you really get the sense that Bhelen is sleazy, but your sister is in love with him and even gave birth to his son.

I haven't played my dwarf characters yet, but I figured this is what would happen.  But, then again, wouldn't dwarf PCs become Paragons after the evnts in Orzammar in which case, it wouldn't matter who you sided with because you founded the House Brosca?

Modifié par Red Viking, 08 novembre 2009 - 07:28 .

[Mikka-chan]

Heh, even though I was playing a pretty 'good guyish' (well, gal) noble dwarf, after going through the Deep Roads and all the chaos, I wanted to storm in to the Assembly and be all 'I HAVE YOUR CROWN/ANVIL. I HAVE THE FAVOR OF THE PARAGON. I HAVE DISCOVERED THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN LOST FOR FOREVER. I HAVE DONE FIVE GAZILLION ERRANDS FOR YOUR PEOPLE AND THEY MOSTLY ADORE ME NOW. I CAN TAKE OUT THIS WHOLE ENTIRE ASSEMBLY. GIVE ME BACK MY TITLE OR I WILL BEAT YOU WITH THIS CROWN/ANVIL UNTIL YOU SEE REASON.'



The only problem is that they could do a 'no army for you' routine, but dwarves are pretty clever. I have a feeling that eventually they'd see reason (...even if you did have to go through half of them to get to that point). I really wanted to be able to go to the Shaper and be all 'Oh, yeah, didn't kill my brother. My other brother did. Paragon said so. You doubt the word of the paragon? :E Now call me Princess again, darn it.'



As for Bhelen, he is sleazy and a no-good bastard: but, he does seem to promise more reforms then his opponent. Whether he would go through with them is anyone's guess, but he does give off the impression of caring more for the Casteless (and the Darkspawn, for that matter) then his opponent.



...Still a kinslayer, though.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

Actually, if you beat the game after siding with him Bhelen arguably does pretty well for Orzammar. Let's just say it becomes apparent in retrospect that a lot of Harrowmont's positive reputation comes from those at the receiving end of the social inequalities he wishes to uphold.

[JosephShrike]

To be honest, I was going to betray Harrowmont to Bhelen, but then some Bhelen supporters attacked me and I changed my mind based solely on vindictiveness

[KingSarevok]

JEBesh wrote...

Bhelen is a bastard. There's the difference.

Play through the Dwarf Noble origin, and you'll see. It's different coming to Orzammar as an outsider.

And that's why I love this game so damn much!

[Sean0883]

My only complaint about that quest was it's undying length.
I'm a dwarf noble so I backed Harrowmont. They had a tourney that I was able to participate in (after already doing a bunch of stuff to win Harrowmont's favoer) to win respect for the houses. The idea is the senate is deadlocked and the victor would win over some of the on the fence people. Tourney ends and I go back thinking I did some good only to find out that it didn't matter at all. The senate was still locked. At that point I was saying something like, "COME THE **** ON." I would understand if the tourney was optional and you could just skip it, but instead you get to spend time getting his fighters to fight, then winning the tourney for nothing. Then after that you go to kill a bandit leader, that will supposedly swing favor to Harrowmont, to again have it do nothing. FINALLY they tell you to spend a couple hours in the tunnels to find the anvil, and then you can finally crown the dude king.

Don't get me wrong I was all about doing some dungeon crawling, and would have done it regardless, even if it was just a side quest. It's just that you would figure that after I win a tourney and kill a notorious bandit for the name of Harrowmont that at least ONE house would have changed sides and killed the deadlock. I guess dwarves are really really really hard to please, even when they are on the fence about what to pick.

EDIT: 
I could be wrong on the quest order and such, but the point still stands that it took forever to do.

Modifié par Sean0883, 09 novembre 2009 - 12:38 .

[IronVanguard]

Mikka-chan wrote...

Heh, even though I was playing a pretty 'good guyish' (well, gal) noble dwarf, after going through the Deep Roads and all the chaos, I wanted to storm in to the Assembly and be all 'I HAVE YOUR CROWN/ANVIL. I HAVE THE FAVOR OF THE PARAGON. I HAVE DISCOVERED THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN LOST FOR FOREVER. I HAVE DONE FIVE GAZILLION ERRANDS FOR YOUR PEOPLE AND THEY MOSTLY ADORE ME NOW. I CAN TAKE OUT THIS WHOLE ENTIRE ASSEMBLY. GIVE ME BACK MY TITLE OR I WILL BEAT YOU WITH THIS CROWN/ANVIL UNTIL YOU SEE REASON.'

Best.
Way.
To become king/queen.
Ever.

[Foxd1e]

The best way actually is.... to side with Caradin, destroy the forge and kill the Wacky Dwarf go back to Orzammar and let both your opponents kill each other in the ensueing chaos when you crown Harrowmont, now both Paragons dead and with Bhelen and Harrowmont both returned to the stone the Deshyrs have no choice but to turn to their Hero Grey Warden. Let them crown you and then with your first edict you declare that Orzammar is going to be reformed into a new Galatic Empire. This is when you reveal you're actually a Sith Lord, owned.

[Teshronesh]

I actually wonder if Harromont really is the good one. If didn't destroy the anvil and sided with him and in the end it said the dwarfs became isolated, he slaughtered the commoners, there was war with Ferelden and they sent small parties on the surface to capture elfes and men for the anvil. If this is the GOOD way, how does the bad one look like?

[ComTrav]

I wonder if anyone who played Dwarf Noble sided with Bhelen. I thought about it, on the off chance there was an option he would restore you to House Aeducan, but the opportunity for vengeance won out.

[Discursion]

Harrowmont has bad sides too, Bhelen is more obviously bad/nasty but Harrowmont is a way bigger stickler for tradition, in other words, if you care about what happens to the Casteless or Surfacers, Harrowmont is a bad choice because he would never change those traditions. Bhelen would most likely shake all of that up to the benefit of making his power larger and restoring the Dwarven empire under his iron fist.

Again that's all conjecture, I don't think either of them do anything for those two groups story-wise, I was hoping (as a Casteless) that after I put Harrowmont on the throne I could talk to him and tell him to abolish the Caste system or at least treat Dusters better, but you can't even open a dialogue. (Quite rude considering you just made him a king imo!)

Modifié par Discursion, 09 novembre 2009 - 02:06 .