249 réponses à ce sujet

[Massadonious1]

It's EDI.



Duh.

[madisk]

Keltoris wrote...

LakeshowAD1986 wrote...

What if Tali dies in a playthrough? Then she won't be in the third game, so her role can't be that important.

Bingo. Tali's character is more expendable to Bioware than Liara's.

And the reprecussions of her death in ME3 will likely be major.

[FlintlockJazz]

gutty47 wrote...

Collider wrote...

I would rank the heroines like this.
1. Liara
2. Miranda
3. Tali
4. Ashley

I was just about to post this same list. Liara helps piece together the prothean stuff in ME1 and eventually recovers Shepards body. Miranda had opportunities to recover Shepard's body but was told no by TIM (read Redemption #3), and then was in charge of bringing Shep back to life. Tali's only moment is the audio snippet to oust Saren as a traitor. The rest of the women in Shepard's crew don't do anything of importance otherwise.

Plus Tali also is the first of Shepard's old team he meets after waking up, and helps him on Freedom's Progress.

Not saying that Tali is the most important heroine, to be blunt none of them are unless you want them to be, but she has a bigger role than is being made out there.  Its all how you play it, for me Liara is completely expendable because I just could not stand talking to her and so barely saw her outside of cutscenes.  Miranda after the intro becomes expendable to me while Ashley varies.

[Collider]

IoCaster wrote...

Collider wrote...

I would rank the heroines like this.
1. Liara
2. Miranda
3. Tali
4. Ashley

Ashley could be switched with Tali if you consider how she was part of one team or the other on Virmire.

Liara will still be alive in ME3. Tali is likely to be as well in most peoples game since she's way more popular than Miranda. Plenty of people can't stand Miranda and will kill her off in ME2. She isn't important to anyone other than TIM and fanboys. 

EDIT: Had to correct myself because obviously Ashley is dead for a lot of people that played ME1. 

...except that Miranda brought Shepard back to life. No Shepard, no ME2. It's not really a matter of how many people had so and such character alive or dead, it's how much of a role they play. Tali was important for the evidence, but not integral for anything else thus far. However, she does provide the shield technology that bars a teammate from dying on the Normandy when going to omega relay. Other than that, Legion could be a tech specialist instead of her.

Miranda is the hardest squad mate to kill and I don't see people as killing her off as much as you say. She's probably - so it appears - the most popular love interest in ME2, as well.

[Collider]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

gutty47 wrote...

Collider wrote...

I would rank the heroines like this.
1. Liara
2. Miranda
3. Tali
4. Ashley

I was just about to post this same list. Liara helps piece together the prothean stuff in ME1 and eventually recovers Shepards body. Miranda had opportunities to recover Shepard's body but was told no by TIM (read Redemption #3), and then was in charge of bringing Shep back to life. Tali's only moment is the audio snippet to oust Saren as a traitor. The rest of the women in Shepard's crew don't do anything of importance otherwise.

Plus Tali also is the first of Shepard's old team he meets after waking up, and helps him on Freedom's Progress.

Not saying that Tali is the most important heroine, to be blunt none of them are unless you want them to be, but she has a bigger role than is being made out there.  Its all how you play it, for me Liara is completely expendable because I just could not stand talking to her and so barely saw her outside of cutscenes.  Miranda after the intro becomes expendable to me while Ashley varies.

Well this isn't a really a discussion on how about you personally use the squad mates in the missions when you have a choice. You have not used Liara but you needed her for the information on the protheans etc.

[yummysoap]

I think we can all agree that it's actually Samara.

[FlintlockJazz]

Collider wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

gutty47 wrote...

Collider wrote...

I would rank the heroines like this.
1. Liara
2. Miranda
3. Tali
4. Ashley

I was just about to post this same list. Liara helps piece together the prothean stuff in ME1 and eventually recovers Shepards body. Miranda had opportunities to recover Shepard's body but was told no by TIM (read Redemption #3), and then was in charge of bringing Shep back to life. Tali's only moment is the audio snippet to oust Saren as a traitor. The rest of the women in Shepard's crew don't do anything of importance otherwise.

Plus Tali also is the first of Shepard's old team he meets after waking up, and helps him on Freedom's Progress.

Not saying that Tali is the most important heroine, to be blunt none of them are unless you want them to be, but she has a bigger role than is being made out there.  Its all how you play it, for me Liara is completely expendable because I just could not stand talking to her and so barely saw her outside of cutscenes.  Miranda after the intro becomes expendable to me while Ashley varies.

Well this isn't a really a discussion on how about you personally use the squad mates in the missions when you have a choice. You have not used Liara but you needed her for the information on the protheans etc.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise!  Please forgive me!

Liara is a boring character, and her VA is atrocious.  They tried to do the break the cutie trope in ME2 to make her more interesting but it has not worked, it just makes her look even more pathetic.  She helps you find the Prothean base, as do all the other characters, and thats it.  We are told that she helped retrieve our body but we never see it ingame and her role in ME2 is negligible at best, we can choose to ignore her completely once we have the locations of Thane and Samara.  I do not find her that important a character, and consider how much we use them to just be as important as when they appear in a cutscene, since it is our story and therefore how we use these characters helps to define it.

EDIT:  If you go by who does the most to help move the plot along in a cutscene, that could make Aria or the Asari Councillor just as big a leading Heroine as the others.  Just because they do something as required by the plot does not make them the leading heroine, hell many leading heroines in stories actually do very little to help move the plot.

Modifié par FlintlockJazz, 10 mars 2010 - 10:37 .

[Tlazolteotl]

Dr Chakwas

[FlintlockJazz]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

Dr Chakwas

This, the good doctor rules all.  Don't try to deny it!

[Axterix]

Liara is the most important female character in ME 1. She is a key plot point that stretches over a few things. And, yes, her character is rather bland. Still believe her primary interest in the main character is as an experiment. And in ME 2, well, she's not very emotionally involved with you, not even if she was your romance option. The most emotionally involved scene with her is Shepard, without an ME 2 love interest, staring at her picture, if she was your ME 1 gal.

For ME 2, the the computer wins that. Has plenty of lines, a developing character, her own love story (her and Joker...if I remember correctly, she goes from calling him Joker to referring to him by his first name), and is pivotal to the plot.

I expect EDI will be a big part of ME 3 as well.

Modifié par Axterix, 10 mars 2010 - 10:47 .

[Pannamaslo]

I think the main heroine for a trilogy is Kaidan.

Srly, isn't that every Shep has it's own heroine? How you can determine that Tali>Liara or Liara>Tali>Ash? Every character is important to a story.

Modifié par Pannamaslo, 10 mars 2010 - 10:44 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Without doubt Tali is popular, but don't underestimate Liara. And that has to do with the fact that FemShep is surprisingly popular.

[IoCaster]

Collider wrote...

...except that Miranda brought Shepard back to life. No Shepard, no ME2. It's not really a matter of how many people had so and such character alive or dead, it's how much of a role they play. Tali was important for the evidence, but not integral for anything else thus far. However, she does provide the shield technology that bars a teammate from dying on the Normandy when going to omega relay. Other than that, Legion could be a tech specialist instead of her.

Miranda is the hardest squad mate to kill and I don't see people as killing her off as much as you say. She's probably - so it appears - the most popular love interest in ME2, as well.

None of that changes the fact that you can kill her. Which I do and have done repeatedly. Liara is the only female NPC, main character that we haven't had an opportunity to kill yet. If that qualifies as a heroine then she's what we've got available. 

Miranda was created to attract a particular subset of gamers. Collagen lips, over-sized t!ts and a sculpted bubble-butt is apparently all it takes to win the fawning admiration of some nerds. I personally think that she's a sh!t character and not as popular as you might imagine, but it doesn't matter to me either way. She'll be dead in my game and that'll suffice.  

[superimposed]

It's Liara, actually.

She's compulsory in the first ME and is intrumental in the resurrection of Shepard in 2, not to mention she's now at war with the Shadow Broker.

[Barquiel]

Collider wrote...

I would rank the heroines like this.
1. Liara
2. Miranda
3. Tali
4. Ashley

I agree; that's how I would rank it as well.

[AngryFrozenWater]

superimposed wrote...

It's Liara, actually.
She's compulsory in the first ME and is intrumental in the resurrection of Shepard in 2, not to mention she's now at war with the Shadow Broker.

That makes sense.

[Jebel Krong]

IoCaster wrote...

Collider wrote...

...except that Miranda brought Shepard back to life. No Shepard, no ME2. It's not really a matter of how many people had so and such character alive or dead, it's how much of a role they play. Tali was important for the evidence, but not integral for anything else thus far. However, she does provide the shield technology that bars a teammate from dying on the Normandy when going to omega relay. Other than that, Legion could be a tech specialist instead of her.

Miranda is the hardest squad mate to kill and I don't see people as killing her off as much as you say. She's probably - so it appears - the most popular love interest in ME2, as well.

None of that changes the fact that you can kill her. Which I do and have done repeatedly. Liara is the only female NPC, main character that we haven't had an opportunity to kill yet. If that qualifies as a heroine then she's what we've got available. 

Miranda was created to attract a particular subset of gamers. Collagen lips, over-sized t!ts and a sculpted bubble-butt is apparently all it takes to win the fawning admiration of some nerds. I personally think that she's a sh!t character and not as popular as you might imagine, but it doesn't matter to me either way. She'll be dead in my game and that'll suffice.  

liara is only unkillable because she's not important in me2. at all. yes you can say "comics" but they aren't part of the game, therefore not proper "canon" and imo, the story in the comics is so typical "stretch the credibility of the concept just to incorporate this character a little bit" it's terrible.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 10 mars 2010 - 11:00 .

[Rodriguer2000]

i would rank it



1 liara (although i usually never pick her for my love interest)

2 tie between ashley and miranda

3 tali

4 jack

[AndroLeonidas]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Collider wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

gutty47 wrote...

Collider wrote...

I would rank the heroines like this.
1. Liara
2. Miranda
3. Tali
4. Ashley

I was just about to post this same list. Liara helps piece together the prothean stuff in ME1 and eventually recovers Shepards body. Miranda had opportunities to recover Shepard's body but was told no by TIM (read Redemption #3), and then was in charge of bringing Shep back to life. Tali's only moment is the audio snippet to oust Saren as a traitor. The rest of the women in Shepard's crew don't do anything of importance otherwise.

Plus Tali also is the first of Shepard's old team he meets after waking up, and helps him on Freedom's Progress.

Not saying that Tali is the most important heroine, to be blunt none of them are unless you want them to be, but she has a bigger role than is being made out there.  Its all how you play it, for me Liara is completely expendable because I just could not stand talking to her and so barely saw her outside of cutscenes.  Miranda after the intro becomes expendable to me while Ashley varies.

Well this isn't a really a discussion on how about you personally use the squad mates in the missions when you have a choice. You have not used Liara but you needed her for the information on the protheans etc.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise!  Please forgive me!

Liara is a boring character, and her VA is atrocious.  They tried to do the break the cutie trope in ME2 to make her more interesting but it has not worked, it just makes her look even more pathetic.  She helps you find the Prothean base, as do all the other characters, and thats it.  We are told that she helped retrieve our body but we never see it ingame and her role in ME2 is negligible at best, we can choose to ignore her completely once we have the locations of Thane and Samara.  I do not find her that important a character, and consider how much we use them to just be as important as when they appear in a cutscene, since it is our story and therefore how we use these characters helps to define it.

EDIT:  If you go by who does the most to help move the plot along in a cutscene, that could make Aria or the Asari Councillor just as big a leading Heroine as the others.  Just because they do something as required by the plot does not make them the leading heroine, hell many leading heroines in stories actually do very little to help move the plot.

None of the other characters in ME1 have her knowledge of Protheans so it is incorrect to assume they woul dbe able to help you find the Ilos. None of the other characters can meld with you and help you to make sense of the beacons and their visions. So if you don't have liara... you don't beat saren. Period.

We are told ingame that she is the one who retrieved our body flat out. And it is happening in the comics so saying because we don't see it ingame it may not have happened is disingenious at best. She is the most important character outside of shepard in the first game... and while I'll agree she plays a neglibile role in ME2, the devs have already staed that is for a reason.

Just out of curousity... did you play the first game. Your comments seem to imply that you did not.

[spacehamsterZH]

I hope we're not being set up for some canonical love interest that we all have to end up with in the end. That would be uber-lame. If that DID happen, I'd say the chances for it being Liara are better because she's still alive in everyone's ME3, but I really hope this will be left up to us.

[Rodriguer2000]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

I hope we're not being set up for some canonical love interest that we all have to end up with in the end. That would be uber-lame. If that DID happen, I'd say the chances for it being Liara are better because she's still alive in everyone's ME3, but I really hope this will be left up to us.

why you think we wont have a choice?<_<

[superimposed]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

superimposed wrote...

It's Liara, actually.
She's compulsory in the first ME and is intrumental in the resurrection of Shepard in 2, not to mention she's now at war with the Shadow Broker.

That makes sense.

Well, let's be honest. Out of all the Squad Members we know of, she's done the most and has been the most involved.
It's not a matter of preference, but of writing and plot. I mean, even forgetting everything they've done, every single female aside from Liara can die by the end of ME:2.

[Sailears]

keegdarv1 wrote...

its a matter of point of view, you see it as that, i see nothing expect Tali as my Shepards "little sister" that i have to protect from the moment i meet her and make sure nothing hurts her. So in my Shepards mind the through of the romance makes no sense since it puts her in danger for one and like i said shes his "little sister"

That's how I feel as well.

[Axterix]

AndroLeonidas wrote...

None of the other characters in ME1 have her knowledge of Protheans so it is incorrect to assume they woul dbe able to help you find the Ilos. None of the other characters can meld with you and help you to make sense of the beacons and their visions. So if you don't have liara... you don't beat saren. Period.

She doesn't display that much knowledge in the first game.  And the first chance we get to see her display it, what we get is Shepard saying in a couple of lines what she couldn't figure out in 60 years.  As for the melding to help you make sense, that isn't Liara, but rather the ashari who is now green.  She's the one that gives you what you need to make sense of the beacon.

Not saying she is or isn't the most important female character, but, well, her role in ME 1 really isn't that important.

If they do make her important for ME 3, I do hope they do a better job at characterization with her.  And don't expect us to buy another major character change...innocent archeoligist to top notch information dealer with a big information gathering network, who can kill her own assistant without it bothering her...all in 2 years?  I'm sorry, but no, not believable.

[FlintlockJazz]

AndroLeonidas wrote...
Just out of curousity... did you play the first game. Your comments seem to imply that you did not.

Yes I did, but of course since I have a different perspective of a character I must not have amirite?

Liara is a plot device, not a leading character.  And her help would have been worthless if you had not exposed Saren to begin with due to Tai's evidence.  And for maleSheps they would never got the beacon message by accident if Ashley had not activated the beacon, rendering everything else inconsequential (if you are playing femShep then you are already playing the leading heroine).  What Liara does to get Shep's body is background story and is really not important since its a throwaway line in the game that many people don't even get, and doesn't even fit in with many people's playthroughs regardless.  Anderson plays a bigger role than her also, so no she is not the most important character outside of Shepard, and the Devs have also stated that Kaidan/Ash are also going to be important in ME3.

Plot Device =/= leading heroine.  Hell, if we were to go by this logic then TiM is the leading hero, Aria should be classed as a main character, Wilson should be the main sidekick (he resurrected Shepard after all), etc. 

Oh, and many people don't get told that Liara recovered their body, since its a choice that is apparently easily missed.