249 réponses à ce sujet

[GenericPlayer2]

First up, I am not a Liara fan, I always treated her like crap. In fact before Aria there were no Asari that could hold my interest.



I am also curious, has it been established that Tali was the only tech who could recover the data regarding Saren, or was she the most convenient choice since she was there already? Its been a while since I played ME1, but if I recall correctly, you actively sought out Liara because of her expertise. Was there anything said in ME1 that indicated that only Tali could recover the data? I really don't remember so it would be nice to know.

[Terror_K]

From what Tali said, any quarian skilled and quick enough would be able to retrieve the data. She was the only one actually there at the time I believe.

[FlintlockJazz]

gutty47 wrote...

superimposed wrote...

Well, to be honest you could do without Miranda. She was appointed overseer, but TIM had all the details and the project worked out. He would have revived you eventually, with or without Miranda.

Its implied that Miranda has the right abilities to do the project and get the people and tech necessary to rebuild Shepard. Miranda was placed in charge of Project Lazarus and its whole goal was to find out if it was possible to bring back Shepard and to actually do it if possible. TIM did not have plans and project already worked out.

Could Miranda's job have be done by someone else? Possibly, but we haven't met anyone in Cerberus that comes close to Miranda's abilities. I've just re-read Redemption #1 through #3 and Miranda also plays a role in the rescuing of Shepard:
Redemption #1: Miranda and Cerberus operatives save Liara and Feron from Blue Suns mercs.
Redemption #3: Miranda has opportunity to save Shepard's body after Liara fails to capture it on Omega. Miranda is told to stand down because other assets are in play.

If we can replace Miranda's role then we can also replace Liara's role during Redemption. Liara plays could've been played by anyone. Feron has all the knowledge on the whereabouts of Shepard's body and Cerberus is funding the whole operation. Hopefully Redemption #4 will tell us who Feron is working for (possibly Cerberus?).

As it stands though I still Liara is the main character, followed closely by Miranda. Redemption #4 may change my mind though.

This.  The only person who was vital in Shepard's rescue and resurrection was TiM.  Without either Miranda or Liara he would still have found a way to get Shepard, he'd just recruit other people to do it.

[Jebel Krong]

superimposed wrote...

Tali's evidence was crucial. Liara had an equally cruical contribution of Ilos.

Then Liara brought you back from the dead by taking on the Shadow Broker.
And then she began a war with the Shadow Broker.

If everything is worth one point, Liara is still two ahead.

comic =/= in-game events. redemption has not been great by any stretch of the imagination, and the "beginning a war with the shadow borker" earns her "points" why? because that is yet to be important to any mass effect game plot. vis a vis tali it's 1:1 by your score, compared with miranda (lazarus project) it's 1:1:1, which i am sure BW planned for.

[superimposed]

The comics are part of the main plot of Mass Effect. You can't dismiss it because it doesn't agree with how you want to see things.

And if you insist on dimissing Liara's Shadow Broker war, she's still one point ahead.

[kraidy1117]

Why are Tali fans always like this? I don't like Liara at all, I like Tali alot more but Liara is more important to the story then Tali.

[Tooneyman]

To the truest of truths. Tali is the heroine of the genre, but actually she can die in ME 2 so no your wrong. hehe. The actual herione is liara. She can't die period. There you go. problem solved and your questions answer and if you made at my answer go slap yourself a volus and be happy!

[redguppie]

won't be able to tell until the final chapter of this story. But my guess is it would be Liara simply because she would have a larger part in the main storyline. Tali is a great character and is my main LI, but I doubt she could be the main Heroine.

[FlintlockJazz]

Christ people, lets take a step back and compare this to something else.



In Big Trouble in Little China, Jack is the main character, yet not only does his friend (the 'sidekick') do more than him, he is actually rather incompetent and fails to make as much an impact. Yet he is still the main character, why? Because it's told from his point of view. Liara may have helped much in the games, but that does not make her a 'leading heronine', on the contrary Ash has more involvement in the story (both living and dying) than she does, getting more screentime.



Now, Liara may be the main character in a spin off comic book series but that does not make her any more important in the main story of the game, its a side story, and her role in ME2 has been relegated to questgiver, which is not the role of a leading star regardless how you want it. Its like when you get an episode of Star Trek from Data's point of view: he's the main character of the episode but he's still not one of the leading men in the show.

[MajorStranger]

In my opinion, the most important characters are Garrus and Tali. They are in both game main character's list. They are the most likely to appear in the 3rd if the player hasn't killed them. They would likely be characters you either: A) save them and they are part of you crew or they died and you will recruit new Turian operative/Quarian Tech

[The Governator]

Collider wrote...

I would rank the heroines like this.


Ashley could be switched with Tali if you consider how she was part of one team or the other on Virmire.

I gotta go with:

1)  Tali
2)  Miranda
3)  Ashley
4)  Samara

[DuffyMJ]

AndroLeonidas wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Collider wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

gutty47 wrote...

Collider wrote...

I would rank the heroines like this.
1. Liara
2. Miranda
3. Tali
4. Ashley

I was just about to post this same list. Liara helps piece together the prothean stuff in ME1 and eventually recovers Shepards body. Miranda had opportunities to recover Shepard's body but was told no by TIM (read Redemption #3), and then was in charge of bringing Shep back to life. Tali's only moment is the audio snippet to oust Saren as a traitor. The rest of the women in Shepard's crew don't do anything of importance otherwise.

Plus Tali also is the first of Shepard's old team he meets after waking up, and helps him on Freedom's Progress.

Not saying that Tali is the most important heroine, to be blunt none of them are unless you want them to be, but she has a bigger role than is being made out there.  Its all how you play it, for me Liara is completely expendable because I just could not stand talking to her and so barely saw her outside of cutscenes.  Miranda after the intro becomes expendable to me while Ashley varies.

Well this isn't a really a discussion on how about you personally use the squad mates in the missions when you have a choice. You have not used Liara but you needed her for the information on the protheans etc.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise!  Please forgive me!

Liara is a boring character, and her VA is atrocious.  They tried to do the break the cutie trope in ME2 to make her more interesting but it has not worked, it just makes her look even more pathetic.  She helps you find the Prothean base, as do all the other characters, and thats it.  We are told that she helped retrieve our body but we never see it ingame and her role in ME2 is negligible at best, we can choose to ignore her completely once we have the locations of Thane and Samara.  I do not find her that important a character, and consider how much we use them to just be as important as when they appear in a cutscene, since it is our story and therefore how we use these characters helps to define it.

EDIT:  If you go by who does the most to help move the plot along in a cutscene, that could make Aria or the Asari Councillor just as big a leading Heroine as the others.  Just because they do something as required by the plot does not make them the leading heroine, hell many leading heroines in stories actually do very little to help move the plot.

None of the other characters in ME1 have her knowledge of Protheans so it is incorrect to assume they woul dbe able to help you find the Ilos. None of the other characters can meld with you and help you to make sense of the beacons and their visions. So if you don't have liara... you don't beat saren. Period.

We are told ingame that she is the one who retrieved our body flat out. And it is happening in the comics so saying because we don't see it ingame it may not have happened is disingenious at best. She is the most important character outside of shepard in the first game... and while I'll agree she plays a neglibile role in ME2, the devs have already staed that is for a reason.

Just out of curousity... did you play the first game. Your comments seem to imply that you did not.

Shiala could have done the whole mind meld thing with Sheppy and things would have worked out fine. Plus, even is Sheppy didn't find Ilos, Saren would have arrived at the Citadel while he was grounded and he would have killed Saren anyway.

[Nastrod]

There is a reason why Liara is the only squad member out of every single one of them in ME1 and ME2 that can never be killed.(biggest one I think)
Liara and Mordin have most needed roles for in-game story.
Liara is the only one to star in a major side story to go along with the main story.
Liara the only LI that can be for male and female Shepards which makes any Shepard able to be a part of your story.
Liara also her Mother was 2nd main boss in ME1

Modifié par Nastrod, 10 mars 2010 - 03:09 .

[The Governator]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

First up, I am not a Liara fan, I always treated her like crap. In fact before Aria there were no Asari that could hold my interest.

I am also curious, has it been established that Tali was the only tech who could recover the data regarding Saren, or was she the most convenient choice since she was there already? Its been a while since I played ME1, but if I recall correctly, you actively sought out Liara because of her expertise. Was there anything said in ME1 that indicated that only Tali could recover the data? I really don't remember so it would be nice to know.

Probably not the only one able to recover the data, but she was probably not many others could have...and...she was in the right place at the right time...with all those skills.

No, you actively sought Liara because she was connected to Benezia.  The expertise are the supposed bonus.  Liara is not the only Prothean expert in the galaxy.

[FlintlockJazz]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Why are Tali fans always like this? I don't like Liara at all, I like Tali alot more but Liara is more important to the story then Tali.

I ain't a Tali fan I just don't consider Liara to be all that important either, and find the Liara Lovers to be just as bad.  I seem to find any excuse to argue. :innocent:

[jtav]

Liara, easily. She must be in your party in ME1, and she is the only party member with a connection to a villain. She was critical in bringing Shepard back. She cannot die, so there's a very good chance she'll have a pivotal role in ME3. There's no contest, and I don't even like her that much.

[superimposed]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Christ people, lets take a step back and compare this to something else.

In Big Trouble in Little China, Jack is the main character, yet not only does his friend (the 'sidekick') do more than him, he is actually rather incompetent and fails to make as much an impact. Yet he is still the main character, why? Because it's told from his point of view. Liara may have helped much in the games, but that does not make her a 'leading heronine', on the contrary Ash has more involvement in the story (both living and dying) than she does, getting more screentime.

Now, Liara may be the main character in a spin off comic book series but that does not make her any more important in the main story of the game, its a side story, and her role in ME2 has been relegated to questgiver, which is not the role of a leading star regardless how you want it. Its like when you get an episode of Star Trek from Data's point of view: he's the main character of the episode but he's still not one of the leading men in the show.

Really? Ash plays a bigger role?

I spoke to her on Eden Prime, and Horizon. Not exactly a big role, and contributed nothing to the progression of the story but for the occasional stuck-up remark because I couldn't send her back to the kitchen.

As for Big Trouble in Little China, that's called a "parody". Jack is useless because that's where humour is derived from.
But he also kills the villain in the end anyway, which is why he's the hero. The story told from his point of view makes him the 'lead' or the 'protagonist' but not the hero.

Modifié par superimposed, 10 mars 2010 - 03:16 .

[Nozybidaj]

Wow, a new Liara hate thread in disguise as a tali love thread that isn't part of the main Tali love thread where it belongs. I understand Tali fan's are jealous because Liara is as close to "canon" love interest as there is out of all the LI's, but come on, really?



You guys got what you wanted, Tali is a LI in ME2 and they even wrote Liara completely out of the game to give it to you. Is it really necessary to rub it in everyone's face?

[GenericPlayer2]

MajorStranger wrote...

In my opinion, the most important characters are Garrus and Tali. They are in both game main character's list. They are the most likely to appear in the 3rd if the player hasn't killed them. They would likely be characters you either: A) save them and they are part of you crew or they died and you will recruit new Turian operative/Quarian Tech

Garrus is optional in ME1, and Tali is optional in ME2. That does not make them seem very important.

[ODST 3]

crimsontotem wrote...

Many fans have debated about this topic for such a long time and it is still a one of hot issues. But juding by the flow of the storyline of the game... Let's face it... It's Tali.

Why? Here's evidence...

1. Tali has been with Shepard in every series (and most likely in the third one)

2. She was in 'love' with him ever since they met in the Citadel (thanks for the typo)

3. Unlike other heroines in any Mas Effect series... she is the only one who has a love scene theme song coming in when She and Shepard is sharing their feeling (not a sex scene)

4. Dat Ass...

I'd say the main heroine of the first game was Liara (most prominently discussed and featured) and it's Miranda for ME 2. FOr me, it's Ashley, Shepard's true love.

[Barquiel]

DuffyMJ wrote...


Shiala could have done the whole mind meld thing with Sheppy and things would have worked out fine. Plus, even is Sheppy didn't find Ilos, Saren would have arrived at the Citadel while he was grounded and he would have killed Saren anyway.

Shepard doesn't find Ilos - we don't get vigils data - we can't control the Citadel - Reapers invade

[Nastrod]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Wow, a new Liara hate thread in disguise as a tali love thread that isn't part of the main Tali love thread where it belongs. I understand Tali fan's are jealous because Liara is as close to "canon" love interest as there is out of all the LI's, but come on, really?

You guys got what you wanted, Tali is a LI in ME2 and they even wrote Liara completely out of the game to give it to you. Is it really necessary to rub it in everyone's face?

That is another point I am glad you reminded me lol. If Tali is SO VERY important to the story why was she not a LI in ME1? Bioware never considered her as a LI for ME1 and they have said it before but they just did it for the fans. If Tali is the "main heroine " why did it take fans asking for her to become a LI for it to happen? Bioware writes the story so they know where it is headed and at first saw no reason for her to be a love for Shep.


Then again Liara is the only LI squad member that can be a LI for male or female Shepard so no matter what she can be a part of Sheps story.

Modifié par Nastrod, 10 mars 2010 - 03:18 .

[epoch_]

If it weren't for the fact that she could die, I would agree with OP.



As it stands, ashley/kaidan and liara can/will play a bigger role than any of the ME2 squad mates.

[The Governator]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Wow, a new Liara hate thread in disguise as a tali love thread that isn't part of the main Tali love thread where it belongs. I understand Tali fan's are jealous because Liara is as close to "canon" love interest as there is out of all the LI's, but come on, really?

You guys got what you wanted, Tali is a LI in ME2 and they even wrote Liara completely out of the game to give it to you. Is it really necessary to rub it in everyone's face?

Nobody is rubbing anything in, bro.  I also don't think too many Tali fans are jealous either.  Don't worry, your Blueberry is not going anywhere.

[Sky Shadowing]

Nastrod wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Wow, a new Liara hate thread in disguise as a tali love thread that isn't part of the main Tali love thread where it belongs. I understand Tali fan's are jealous because Liara is as close to "canon" love interest as there is out of all the LI's, but come on, really?

You guys got what you wanted, Tali is a LI in ME2 and they even wrote Liara completely out of the game to give it to you. Is it really necessary to rub it in everyone's face?

That is another point. If Tali is SO VERY important to the story why was she not a LI in ME1? Bioware never considered her as a LI for ME1 and they have said it before but they just did it for the fans. If Tali is the "main heroine " why did it take fans asking for her to become a LI for it to happen? Bioware writes the story so they know where it is headed and at first saw no reason for her to be a love for Shep.


Then again Liara is the only LI squad member that can be a LI for male or female Shepard so no matter what she can be a part of Sheps story.

Not true. Tali was intended to be  a LI but Bioware took her out because they didn't think people would like romancing a girl with "chicken-feet". They were terribly, terribly wrong and fixed their mistake in ME2.

I can't remember where the proof is, but I'm sure somebody can be along in a moment to supply it.

IMO, there is no "main heroine" of the story. Liara has a minimal role in ME2, and she's the only squadmate (INCLUDING Shepard) who is guaranteed to survive through to ME3 (though we know Shepard's death isn't canon).

I see whoever the player chooses as his "one true love" out of the 2 or 3 LIs (ME3 might introduce a new one) in the game as being the "main heroine" in the series.

In the end, let's face it- every one of them are cast members, characters to be used by the story and dropped as fit. Liara was not a part of the story in ME2, apart from a small appearance and a few low missions. Ashley could be dead, and just has a cameo (with hints of a major role to play in ME3 if she's a love interest). If she's the LI, she's a heroine. It's up to the player to determine which one lives and which one dies (I would be surprised if ME3 didn't allow every possible squadmate to die).

Every character is equally important. No character is MORE important.