249 réponses à ce sujet

[ShadyKat]

I'd say it's a toss up between Liara and Tali. They are clearly the series main heroines, not sure who really has the edge between the both of them.

[GenericPlayer2]

ShadyKat wrote...

I'd say it's a toss up between Liara and Tali. They are clearly the series main heroines, not sure who really has the edge between the both of them.

Not even close - Outside of using tech expertise to recover data in ME1, Tali is not important to the plot at all. Now ME3 has not come out yet, but given that she can die on 2 occasions in ME2 (left on Haelstrom and Suicide mission), its very slim she is critical for anything in ME3.

Now its true she breaks up a potential fight on Freedom's progress, but given Quarian battle capability in general, and Prazza's incompetence in particular, its more than likely that Shep+Miranda+Jacob would have butchered that squad.

Modifié par GenericPlayer2, 10 mars 2010 - 04:46 .

[FlintlockJazz]

Darht Jayder wrote...

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

ShadyKat wrote...

I'd say it's a toss up between Liara and Tali. They are clearly the series main heroines, not sure who really has the edge between the both of them.

Not even close - Outside of using tech expertise to recover data in ME1, Tali is not important to the plot at all. Now ME3 has not come out yet, but given that she can die on 2 occasions in ME2 (left on Haelstrom and Suicide mission), its very slim she is critical for anything in ME3.

Exactly....Tali's role in ME is to do nothing but get herself in trouble and have Shepard waste time from preparing to save the galaxy so he can come and save her lame Quarian behind.

Is that not still an important role though?  A character's importance in a story is how much she impacts it not whether it is a good or bad impact, and is typical of the damsel in distress archetype.  Regardless, it all depends on the current player as to who is the leading whatever in their playthrough, so I don't really get the whole argument of proving which one is better.

[_purifico_]

What?! Another of those threads? You've got to be kidding me... You already have your 2k+ pages long thread dedicated to the one and only. Stop double-posting garbage. Seriously. Stop it.

Oh, and btw, calling her a main heroine - that's kind of a long shot. She is ok, but not even close to being the main girl. Better luck In ME3 maybe.

[DiscipleofUranus]

Id say it was Garrus .........



No but seriously, Bioware appear to be pushing for Liara as the main gal, in ME1 if you play the field a bit, in the confrontation if you ask to have both, Liara is the one who sticks with you

[The Governator]

Darht Jayder wrote...


I still don't see her role as important.  So far.....other than when she first appears in ME1 and gives the data to Shepard about Saren, She could have been absent from the rest of the story and it would not have made one iota of difference in the grand scheme of things.  Perhaps in ME3 she will be more important....but I don't see it yet.  The OP is pathetically trying to make a case for why Tali is the main heroine, and I don't see it.

Well, without Tali, Liara would arguably either still be at the dig site...or dead. 

Liara joins, gets woozy, reads minds, gets woozy, reads minds and remembers something critical about Ilos. 

Tali presents critical evidence that allows the mission to commence. 

The result is this:  which is more imporant, the chicken (without which we cannot have more chickens) or the egg (without which we cannot make more chickens)?

[The Governator]

DiscipleofUranus wrote...

Id say it was Garrus .........

No but seriously, Bioware appear to be pushing for Liara as the main gal, in ME1 if you play the field a bit, in the confrontation if you ask to have both, Liara is the one who sticks with you

Yeah, I watched a video on that.  She goes, 'thank you for choosing me, Shepard.'  There was no choice made.  The other one walked away.

[DiscipleofUranus]

The Governator wrote...

Darht Jayder wrote...


I still don't see her role as important.  So far.....other than when she first appears in ME1 and gives the data to Shepard about Saren, She could have been absent from the rest of the story and it would not have made one iota of difference in the grand scheme of things.  Perhaps in ME3 she will be more important....but I don't see it yet.  The OP is pathetically trying to make a case for why Tali is the main heroine, and I don't see it.

Well, without Tali, Liara would arguably either still be at the dig site...or dead. 

Liara joins, gets woozy, reads minds, gets woozy, reads minds and remembers something critical about Ilos. 

Tali presents critical evidence that allows the mission to commence. 

The result is this:  which is more imporant, the chicken (without which we cannot have more chickens) or the egg (without which we cannot make more chickens)?

Actually you need two chickens .... or a Rooster and an egg and hope the chicken in the egg is female


So maybe this proves, both are as important as each other

[GenericPlayer2]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Is that not still an important role though?  A character's importance in a story is how much she impacts it not whether it is a good or bad impact, and is typical of the damsel in distress archetype.  Regardless, it all depends on the current player as to who is the leading whatever in their playthrough, so I don't really get the whole argument of proving which one is better.

I know what you are saying, and if she was not optional in ME2 I would be agreeing with you. But if ME2 gives you two chances for Tali's death (regardless of her contributions to the story) then its unlikely that she is a central character.

Even in movies like Die Hard or Rambo II the damsel plays an important role, in the former the out of city cop would have just found a way out of there instead of staying to fight, and in the latter its a motivation for revenge and fury. Tali does not play that role in the game. If you want to save her on Haelstrom, you can, and if you don't, you don't. Not even counting the plethora of trial options from ignoring it entirely, exposing her father, keeping a secret, shouting at admirals. Tali can be different to so many players - the love interest, faithful friend at your side, ungrateful ****, or a foot note in the story that is ME. Because of that I don't see her being given a central plot device in ME3, or being recognized as the trilogy's most important character.

[The Unfallen]

Liara doesn't give one flying **** about Shepard.

[DiscipleofUranus]

I think this discussion has no resolution until we have played ME3, how are we to know?

Maybe if Tali dies in ME2, Liara will be integral to the story, but if she lives, maybe Tali and the Quarian/Geth conflict will take presidence. Heck, for all we know, Grunt could be the chosen one and will lead us all to salvation from the Reapers! (Does have reaper tech in him afterall ) And that would make him the main character.

Anyway back to my point, the OT was Main Heroine of the Trilogy, well the third installment isn't out yet, so we don't know. Nice and simple

Besides, it's all perspective, in my Canon playthrough, in ME1 Garrus and Wrex were my homies, I didn't romance anyone, and everybody else sat on the ship collecting dust. Then in ME2, I threw a dog a bone and romanced Tali (seemed the lesser of 3 evils) but still she sat on the ship collecting dust. Again, it was Shep, Garrus and my Krogan buddy cruising the galaxy kicking ass. So as far as I'm concerned. So far, Garrus has had the biggest impact on the trilogy so far. And im sure for the rest of you it will be different, all our Sheps may have the same setting. But its how you play it that makes the story.


Just a footnote, but i would like to add, i have taken other characters off the ship on ME2 on different playthroughs, otherwise it would get boring fast :innocent:

[Beechwell]

I think what this discussion lacks is a clear idea about what constitutes the "main heroine".

Is it the heros's most loyal sidekick and love-interest? Is it the female character mist closely resembling a main hero/character of a storyline? Or is it the female part in a story revolving around the partnership of two people?



Accodring to definition it would probably be Ashley in ME1, Miranda or Tali in ME2, and Tali considering both ME1 and ME2.

No. 2 would in my opinion be clearly Liara (although her role was probably specifically enlarged for the comics)

No. 3 is none, because this isn't that type of story.

[Llandaryn]

Oh joy. Another Tali thread. Because no forum can ever have enough Tali threads.

[Knoll Argonar]

epoch_ wrote...

Oh God, you're an idiot.

Thanks =)

Anyway, regardless of that one, I think I made my point. It's about character progression OP was talking about I believe.

Every single character has shown character evolution. I even like all the love interests, but saying one is somehow better that the others just sounds stupid. Its all a matter of tastes. Thats why there are so many options.

But, again, What I think you have to think is that ME2 leads somehow to Talimance, for all those scenic reasons you have if you make her join you (Freedom's progress, Haestrom, etc.etc.etc.). Bioware's Baby, I read somewhere a few days ago.

I'm not saying that she's more important than Liara, that's just Liaratards crying, I just said that Tali, according to ME2, suffered a hell of a maduration as a character. Tali in ME2 is bigger than ME1, a lot. And Bioware wanted us to note that. Will she be bigger in ME3? Who knows =/

As I said, it was a big Level Up considering ME1 vs ME2. Ashley&Kaidan stay the same for convenience, and Liara suffers from and injection of "interestinine" to counter her "fainting and minding people" that got old in ME1.

But anyway, I'm amazed how Liaratards start crying just when someone says that another character that is not Liara has something else or that she lacks something. Wow. Tali Thread is quite nicer.

[Nozybidaj]

U mad!

[Lord_Moose]

But people saying Tali is expendable because there is the chance she could die forget that Liara can very well be killed in ME3 as well! The Observer is closer to Liara then she thinks and if you do not correctly discover that, she could be assassinated.

If you havent prepared yourself both Tali and Liara can be dead in Mass Effect 3

You could be left with just someone like Legion and Zaeed in ME3 because you sent Zaeed to escort and legion+thane were with you in the final battle, and Thane croaks later on due to his sickness.

[epoch_]

Knoll Argonar wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

Oh God, you're an idiot.

Thanks =)

Anyway, regardless of that one, I think I made my point. It's about character progression OP was talking about I believe.

Every single character has shown character evolution. I even like all the love interests, but saying one is somehow better that the others just sounds stupid. Its all a matter of tastes. Thats why there are so many options.

But, again, What I think you have to think is that ME2 leads somehow to Talimance,

Someone's delusional.

[Knoll Argonar]

Considering she just jumps at you whatever you do after you loyalty her (that's it, don't know if she still wants romance after you renegade her), that Kelly TELLS you that just after you recruit her... yes =/



And I like how you just don't read or care about people's post. Anyway, made my point, made sure people read it. Gotta go.

[epoch_]

These people would like a word with you, before you go.



http://social.biowar...05/index/993604

http://social.biowar...96298/1#1297218

http://social.biowar.../index/984999/1

http://social.biowar...5/index/1144894

http://social.biowar...index/1295431/1

http://social.biowar...05/index/866988

http://social.biowar...5/index/1295341

http://social.biowar...5/index/1295293

http://social.biowar...5/index/1040537

http://social.biowar...05/index/942953

[Red Viking]

To be honest, I think the female lead in ME3 will either be Liara or a brand new character. I say Liara only because she is literally the only party member who is guaranteed to survive up to the last game.



Ideally, the male/female lead in ME3 would be whomever Shepard's love interest was, but that's a lot of variables that need to be accounted for.

[Knoll Argonar]

Okey, I lied, I didn't go =P



But please, did I really say Tali Romance was more important than those? =/ I just said it's the first they shove in your face. More important? No. More present or noticeable? Hell yeah, Jack's f*cking difficult to get, but also very rewarding.

[FlintlockJazz]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Is that not still an important role though?  A character's importance in a story is how much she impacts it not whether it is a good or bad impact, and is typical of the damsel in distress archetype.  Regardless, it all depends on the current player as to who is the leading whatever in their playthrough, so I don't really get the whole argument of proving which one is better.

I know what you are saying, and if she was not optional in ME2 I would be agreeing with you. But if ME2 gives you two chances for Tali's death (regardless of her contributions to the story) then its unlikely that she is a central character.

Even in movies like Die Hard or Rambo II the damsel plays an important role, in the former the out of city cop would have just found a way out of there instead of staying to fight, and in the latter its a motivation for revenge and fury. Tali does not play that role in the game. If you want to save her on Haelstrom, you can, and if you don't, you don't. Not even counting the plethora of trial options from ignoring it entirely, exposing her father, keeping a secret, shouting at admirals. Tali can be different to so many players - the love interest, faithful friend at your side, ungrateful ****, or a foot note in the story that is ME. Because of that I don't see her being given a central plot device in ME3, or being recognized as the trilogy's most important character.

I agree with you, I'm just arguing that Liara is also not that important either.  The devs may intend to use her as a plot device, probably in the same way as Miranda was in ME2, but the universe is not going to hinge on her anymore than it is for a plethora of alot of other characters, despite what a lot of obsessional people (I call them Liara Lovers in reference to the obsessional Talimancers) may think.