249 réponses à ce sujet

[SirEmilCrane]

The whole point of Mass Effect is that its your Shepard's story. We have tons of choices to make as to how our story progresses. Thats why so many people can die. Not because they aren't important but because the story is our own and we can customize it any way we want. Your heroine is anyone you want it to be, for me its Tali, for someone else its Liara etc.



Your choices, your story

[Llandaryn]

KnotEngaged wrote...

There is no main heroine. All your arguments are for naught.

Yeah. Everyone knows that there's no main heroine.

And if there were, it would be the Normandy. The ship is a she, so sayeth the engineers.

[InvaderErl]

While Liara is certainly the most important party member thus far, calling her a heroine is taking it way too far. She provides Shepard with some plot critical information in 1 and hands his body over to Cerberus before 2 starts. That's been really the extent of her importance thus far.

If anything EDI has done at least as much to save the day as Liara if not more.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 10 mars 2010 - 10:20 .

[Relinquished2]

Dem hips!

[noobzor99]

Yeah, um, who was it that saved Shepard's body? Not tali? Right.



I really think the heroine depends on your personal perspective and story.

[JeanLuc761]

I love Tali to death but I wouldn't consider her the main heroine. Matter of fact, I wouldn't consider any of the main females to be more important to the storyline than the other.



In Mass Effect 1:

- Without Tali, you wouldn't have become a Spectre and you wouldn't have evidence against Saren.

- Without Liara, you wouldn't have been able to deconstruct the Prothean vision.



Mass Effect 2:

- Without Liara, your body would have been given to the Shadow Broker.

- Without Miranda, you would have remained dead.

- Without Tali, you wouldn't have the connection to the Quarians and the Geth as you do now



ALL of them are very important and as such, I can't consider any of them "main" heroines.

[InvaderErl]

Again heroine is too strong a word, that implies almost a co-starring role.

The most direct action that could be linked to her saving the day is giving Shepard information and giving him to Cerberus.

Its not as if she's kicking down Saren's door and blowing his base apart. She's a supporting character (like all the party members) that has some plot to provide to Shep so that they can get to where they need to be.

I mean, Mordin essentially has the same importance in 2 that she did in 1. Is he the Hero of Mass Effect 2?

Modifié par InvaderErl, 11 mars 2010 - 07:28 .

[Killer Instinct]

This is a matter of preference. No matter how the story dictates, if the player values Miranda more than Tali, Tali will never be viewed as the 'main heroine' by that individuial. Great thing about ME is choice. We still have that...right?

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Yeah, thankfully many have hit the nail on the head already: Though you wouldnt know it from her utterly crap ME2 role that was a complete embarrassment, Liara is the most important character in the trilogy other than Shepard. Far more important than Tali easily. The only reason Tali has even been suggested is because of her horde of fanboys, but face facts, she isnt that important.

The comic book has some massive flaws, but one definite strength is that without the events it depicts, there is no ME2, and no more Shepard.

Fanboys calling others fanboys is mind numbing.

Modifié par Killer Instinct, 11 mars 2010 - 07:58 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Evidence against Saren, provided by Tali was not a big deal.

1. It could be retrieved from her omni-tool even if she was killed in that alley.

2. Sooner or later, Saren would have been exposed one way or another. For example. Even without spectre status Shepard could go to Feros and to find Shiala, who could testify before the Council.

So that petty "evidence" earns Tali nothing. It was just a plot device to introduce her.

Liara, on the contrary was essential. Shepards vision could not be transcibed to an outer bearer, So it had to be an asari with the knowledge of the Proteans to pinpoint the Conduit's location in Shepard's brain.

Liara 1:0 Tali

Liara cannot be dead. Tali can be dead.

Liara 2:0 Tali

Liara has a comic book series about her retrieving Shepard's body. Tali doesn't even have a face.

Liara 3:0 Tali

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 11 mars 2010 - 04:17 .

[mortons4ck]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Without doubt Tali is popular, but don't underestimate Liara. And that has to do with the fact that FemShep is surprisingly popular.

As much as I love Tali, I'm going to have to agree that the devs are pushing for Liara as she is the only ME1 character who doesn't have the ability to die (atleast in ME and ME2).

However, I do think Bioware has invested too heavily in Tali as a character to just cameo her in the third game. Atleast I hope.

JeanLuc761 wrote...

I love Tali to death but I wouldn't
consider her the main heroine. Matter of fact, I wouldn't consider any
of the main females to be more important to the storyline than the
other.

In Mass Effect 1:
- Without Tali, you wouldn't have
become a Spectre and you wouldn't have evidence against Saren.
-
Without Liara, you wouldn't have been able to deconstruct the Prothean
vision.

Mass Effect 2:
- Without Liara, your body would have
been given to the Shadow Broker.
- Without Miranda, you would have
remained dead.
- Without Tali, you wouldn't have the connection to
the Quarians and the Geth as you do now

ALL of them are very
important and as such, I can't consider any of them "main"
heroines.

This is also true.

Darht Jayder wrote...

oh and Rachni
Queen>Tali

Dem Spiracles??

Modifié par mortons4ck, 11 mars 2010 - 04:19 .

[InvaderErl]

Darht Jayder wrote...

This whole topic is stupid and simply for the purpose of once again smearing the forum with Tali love and rubbing everyones noses with the fact that Tali has a legion of supporters. We get it....there are lots of you....now go post in the Tali love thread and move on.

oh and Rachni Queen>Tali

Do you just wake up and start smashing the keyboard with your face?

This thread is clearly Liara orientated.

[Zulu_DFA]

InvaderErl wrote...

Darht Jayder wrote...

This whole topic is stupid and simply for the purpose of once again smearing the forum with Tali love and rubbing everyones noses with the fact that Tali has a legion of supporters. We get it....there are lots of you....now go post in the Tali love thread and move on.

oh and Rachni Queen>Tali

Do you just wake up and start smashing the keyboard with your face?

This thread is clearly Liara orientated.

That's because OP's idea "Tali = main heroine" is OBVIOUS EPIC FAIL.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Sky Shadowing wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

People will project whatever they want on a given character, for some its Tali others Liara (and any other character). Saying one over the other is opinion not fact.

This.

End the thread now, there is nothing more that needs to be said.

Agreed.

There are arguments for and against each side.

Arguing who is the main heroine of ME2 is like arguing who is the hero of Lord of the Rings, without having read Return of the King. Arguing it's Liara is like arguing it's Bilbo- very important in the first part (the Hobbit), but not nearly as important as in the trilogy (as Liara barely appears in ME2, only as a quest-giver). They're both guaranteed to survive through to the end (unless, of course, the Quest/Mission fails and everything is destroyed)(and, of course, we can't be sure in Liara's case).

Tali is not a good argument either, because her survival is not guaranteed. Some players will have her live all the way through to the end, while others will have her get shot or blown up. Now, for SOME people (myself and the other Talimancers) she will end up being the main heroine, because she'll survive.

I would say Joker is the closest thing we have to a "heroine", but in reality, he's more like Gandalf- very important, but not the focus of the story- in LotR. His survival is guaranteed through ME2.

You can't argue someone's a heroine on the basis of survival, because then technically somebody like, say, Faramir is the heroine of LotR- survives to the end, and plays an important part, but is not the hero/heroine.

I'd say we can't be sure until ME3 is over, but the fact of the matter remains- unless Bioware really screws the pooch, the player gets to determine who the "main heroine" is.

[InvaderErl]

I agree with that.

[The Governator]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Evidence against Saren, provided by Tali was not a big deal.

1. It could be retrieved from her omni-tool even if she was killed in that alley.

2. Sooner or later, Saren would have been exposed one way or another. For example. Even without spectre status Shepard could go to Feros and to find Shiala, who could testify before the Council.

So that petty "evidence" earns Tali nothing. It was just a plot device to introduce her.

Liara, on the contrary was essential. Shepards vision could not be transcibed to an outer bearer, So it had to be an asari with the knowledge of the Proteans to pinpoint the Conduit's location in Shepard's brain.

Liara 1:0 Tali

Liara cannot be dead. Tali can be dead.

Liara 2:0 Tali

Liara has a comic book series about her retrieving Shepard's body. Tali doesn't even have a face.

Liara 3:0 Tali

1) except that Tali is the one who retrieved the evidence from the geth...debunked.

2) except that they would have devalued this 'evidence' as manufactured because it would have been tainted by Shepard finding it who is loyal to Andersen...debunked

liara is a total plot device.  I am not going to believe she is the only Prothean expert available.  

Shiala could easily have given all the information that liara did, and Shiala had more important information to give to Shepard than liara ever did by giving over the cipher.

As for finding Ilos, I imagine Shiala or any other Asari could have done that.  Plus, the Shepard could have asked the Rachni queen since Benezia hinted at the information being carried down genetically.  So, liara is completely unnecessary...just a convenient means to an end.

Oh, and about the SB?  I know that Cerberus could have affected the same result and bought the body from him.

[keegdarv1]

This is getting old any "fanboy" is going to defend thier character and any charater could be called the "main" heroine. I could if i wanted to defennd Ash or Miranda as wel as any could defend Liara or Tali. Its up to the player.



Though Im sorry Tali fan base but



"Liara has a comic book series about her retrieving Shepard's body. Tali doesn't even have a face" by Zulu_DFA



may have been one of the funnest agruements for a character ive ever seen

[Collider]

That's true, what one may consider the main heroine may just be how often they use the character and if they are a romance interest for the player. But for me, in my opinion, if there is any main heroine, that would have to be Liara. Tali could be the symbolic heroine for the storyline as I prefer her a romance interest. But Liara does have the distinction of being vital to finding Saren and Ilos, as well as saving Shepard's body.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Yeah but if it was important it would be told in game



What is this, Mass Effect now Gears of War and Liara is to ME what Marcus is to Gears of War?



Wait, don't answer that

[The Governator]

keegdarv1 wrote...

This is getting old any "fanboy" is going to defend thier character and any charater could be called the "main" heroine. I could if i wanted to defennd Ash or Miranda as wel as any could defend Liara or Tali. Its up to the player.

Though Im sorry Tali fan base but

"Liara has a comic book series about her retrieving Shepard's body. Tali doesn't even have a face" by Zulu_DFA

may have been one of the funnest agruements for a character ive ever seen

I don't need Tali to be the main heroine, but I wish Liara fans would stop putting her down to make liara look better.  I am not fond of Liara at all, but I don't put people down for liking her and I do not exploit every opportunity to make her seem marginal either.  I only do it when people denigrate Tali to make another character look better. 

In the end, I know I am being petty, but that's what people do. 

[Barquiel]

The Governator wrote...

I don't need Tali to be the main heroine, but I wish Liara fans would stop putting her down to make liara look better.  I am not fond of Liara at all, but I don't put people down for liking her and I do not exploit every opportunity to make her seem marginal either.  I only do it when people denigrate Tali to make another character look better. 

In the end, I know I am being petty, but that's what people do. 

You know...a Tali fan started this thread

[keegdarv1]

The Governator wrote...

keegdarv1 wrote...

This is getting old any "fanboy" is going to defend thier character and any charater could be called the "main" heroine. I could if i wanted to defennd Ash or Miranda as wel as any could defend Liara or Tali. Its up to the player.

Though Im sorry Tali fan base but

"Liara has a comic book series about her retrieving Shepard's body. Tali doesn't even have a face" by Zulu_DFA

may have been one of the funnest agruements for a character ive ever seen

I don't need Tali to be the main heroine, but I wish Liara fans would stop putting her down to make liara look better.  I am not fond of Liara at all, but I don't put people down for liking her and I do not exploit every opportunity to make her seem marginal either.  I only do it when people denigrate Tali to make another character look better. 

In the end, I know I am being petty, but that's what people do. 

sorry if came across as a shot as you as was not, was a shot at the petty Liara vs Tali war it has become

[Onyx Jaguar]

I personally find this whole argument irrelevant. The only basis for one side glorifies a terrible design decision by the writers at bioware and the other side glorifies a character who is optional in one game.