53 réponses à ce sujet

[mayatola]

Great video, thanks!



I underestimated the Viper the first time I used it, but actually, I prefer it's reliability over the Mantis (but not the Widow of course). The damage potential of the Viper (damage per shot * maximum ammo capacity) is almost double that of the Mantis, and actually slightly higher than the Widow. Of course, that isn't the only thing that determines what weapon I prefer, but it's still something that is important to me. It's also the main reason why a soldier never has to switch weapons after picking up the Revenant. The Vindicator, on the other hand, while powerful, simply doesn't have enough ammo to deal with more than a handful of normal targets (or a couple of "elites" or "sub boss" targets).



I know you can risk running around the battlefield for clips, or just switch to another weapon, but the fact that a soldier with a Revenant doesn't have to makes all the difference for me.



Again, thanks for the video!

[Besetment]

Sorry, theres something about your video that really bothers me. No scope time dilation.

I know you didn't put any points in Operative and even though I think Viper rocks, the 2 seconds of auto time dilation seriously messes with your aim. After the first shot (which is really slow) everything suddenly speeds up and that makes tracking moving targets very difficult.

Then again, I guess theres not much reason to even put 10 points into Operative. The damage boost is negligible. Time dilation does more harm than good if you can actually aim with the Viper or even the Widow. You'll eat alot of bullets though.

Modifié par Besetment, 11 mars 2010 - 12:02 .

[tonnactus]

Interesting.I prefer the viper anyway because i can snipe continuosly and it isnt overpowered for regular enemies,so ammo wouldnt be wasted on them.It sucks to reload after each shot.
Better then ymir would be scions for testing.

Modifié par tonnactus, 11 mars 2010 - 12:02 .

[cruc1al]

tonnactus wrote...

Interesting.I prefer the viper anyway because i can snipe continuosly and it isnt overpowered for regular enemies,so ammo wouldnt be wasted on them.It sucks to reload after each shot.
Better then ymir would be scions for testing.

True, a scion might be easier to test on. It could be arranged on the suicide mission, for example. At the end of the section right before the terminator you have one platform with two scions and a couple of easy-to-kill abominations.

[cruc1al]

Besetment wrote...

Sorry, theres something about your video that really bothers me. No scope time dilation.

I know you didn't put any points in Operative and even though I think Viper rocks, the 2 seconds of auto time dilation seriously messes with your aim. After the first shot (which is really slow) everything suddenly speeds up and that makes tracking moving targets very difficult.

Then again, I guess theres not much reason to even put 10 points into Operative. The damage boost is negligible. Time dilation does more harm than good if you can actually aim with the Viper or even the Widow. You'll eat alot of bullets though.

I had to respec my Shepard not to have any points in the passive class skill exactly because of the time dilation effect. By definition, it would mess up any measurements, given that each weapon test has a different amount of scope time.

Furthermore, the scope time dilation effect is only relevant to the Infiltrator class, so any effects it would have on the test results of one weapon relative to another would be relevant to infiltrators only.

Modifié par cruc1al, 11 mars 2010 - 12:14 .

[sandman7431]

Great video. Of course the widow can often kill enemies in one shot that the viper would need to hit 5 times in order to kill. If you don't miss, you can get it done but if you miss and the enemy finds cover (and if they have fast regen) then there is a major difference between the weapons.



IMO, the viper is the best weapon to choose at the collectorship for every class except the soldier (revenant) and the infiltrator (widow). In terms of pure effectiveness, it is superior to the vindicator. I have to admit though, I'm not a big viper fan. It just feels too bland but I respect it a lot.

[Arde5643]

Thank you much cruc1al for another one of your very informative stat videos.

[TheBestClass]

Great video.



Is there a shotgun test video?

[MisterMerf]

I'm going through your whole collection now.



Thanks for putting in the effort to demonstrate your test results for the rest of us!

[cruc1al]

TheBestclass wrote...

Great video.

Is there a shotgun test video?

Thanks. Not yet.

[cruc1al]

Average Gatsby wrote...

This video pisses me off more than anything.

Bioware, I own the incisor. Come on! Seriously?

The Incisor isn't quite as useless in practice, you just have to use it right. It's not designed against heavy armor, it's designed against multiple light opponents. But it still doesn't beat the Viper, though. Here:

Anti-Shield Sniper Comparison

[Average Gatsby]

cruc1al wrote...

Average Gatsby wrote...

This video pisses me off more than anything.

Bioware, I own the incisor. Come on! Seriously?

The Incisor isn't quite as useless in practice, you just have to use it right. It's not designed against heavy armor, it's designed against multiple light opponents. But it still doesn't beat the Viper, though. Here:

Anti-Shield Sniper Comparison

Its not so much the damage of the incisor, but the damage combined with the fact that it has no ammo. No other weapon in the game picks up so little ammo as a percentage of the total. The Widow picks up between 1-3 rounds, which means 1-3 shots. The Incisor: 2-4 rounds. And it does less than half the damage per bust. Sigh.

[Chromie]

Average Gatsby wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

Average Gatsby wrote...

This video pisses me off more than anything.

Bioware, I own the incisor. Come on! Seriously?

The Incisor isn't quite as useless in practice, you just have to use it right. It's not designed against heavy armor, it's designed against multiple light opponents. But it still doesn't beat the Viper, though. Here:

Anti-Shield Sniper Comparison

Its not so much the damage of the incisor, but the damage combined with the fact that it has no ammo. No other weapon in the game picks up so little ammo as a percentage of the total. The Widow picks up between 1-3 rounds, which means 1-3 shots. The Incisor: 2-4 rounds. And it does less than half the damage per bust. Sigh.

Wow...I think it's best when left in a Thane's hand

[RamsenC]

cruc1al wrote...

TheBestclass wrote...

Great video.

Is there a shotgun test video?

Thanks. Not yet.

If you do a shotgun test don't forget trying out headshots as well. I only say this because people don't usually think of shotguns as headshot weapons. A lot of it also depends on what range you use the shotgun (close range or melee range) and whether you take advantage of melee between shots. There's also the factor of missing pellets without noticing since only half the pellets are rendered.

The shotgun test might be a ****.

Modifié par RamsenC, 11 mars 2010 - 11:47 .

[padaE]

Great job man.

[ScroguBlitzen]

@cruc1al:

Can you test the following vs those same mechs using the Viper:

Number of shots to remove shields.
Number of shots to remove armor.
Number of shots to remove health.

Tested with Disruptor Ammo, Cryo Ammo, Warp Ammo and Armor Piercing Ammo.

Then for super bonus points, do the same test with a Viper but vs Harbinger (ignoring Disruptor Ammo).

I will pay 5 internets.

Modifié par ScroguBlitzen, 12 mars 2010 - 12:20 .

[mundus66]

Viper is definitely the best dps wise even better than widow unless you go for head shots. But with adrenaline rush or assassination cloak i still prefer mantis or widow. For other classes viper all the way, if you got a sniper that is.

[NaclynE]

Well the first sniper rifle you pickup is very powerful but needs to be reloaded every shot. it also feature really good barrier/armor penetration.
The sniper rifle you pickup during Thanes quest is not as powerful but doesn't require any immediate reload and can be reloaded after the 12th(?) shot. However it stinks compared to the first rifle in terms of armor/barrier penitration where it takes more shots to do so where the first one can do it in 1-3 on some guys.
Widow is almost like the first but the armor penetration can be done either in a instant to two shots. Power is more significant and it holds more ammo than the first. However the ammo carrying has only been slightly improved compared to the first while still less than the one from thanes quest and requires immediate reload after fireing. also I noticed theres a 'kickback' from fireing the badboy so you might have a signifacant stagger when aiming on your next target.
I am not sure if Widow is getable for the other classes but I found it to be the best for the infiltrator. also I noticed on harder difficulty settings ammo becomes more scarce to find so to me you really need to make EVERY SHOT COUNT for infiltrators so I felt Widow made it possible. runner up goes to the first one but however it's good to have Thane/Garrus use the second one so they can add pressure while your doing your thing.

PS: I havent tried the DLC ones yet due to internet issues with my router for my XBOX 360

Modifié par NaclynE, 12 mars 2010 - 10:12 .

[cruc1al]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

@cruc1al:

Can you test the following vs those same mechs using the Viper:

Number of shots to remove shields.
Number of shots to remove armor.
Number of shots to remove health.

Tested with Disruptor Ammo, Cryo Ammo, Warp Ammo and Armor Piercing Ammo.

Then for super bonus points, do the same test with a Viper but vs Harbinger (ignoring Disruptor Ammo).

I will pay 5 internets.

5 Internets? I'm on it!

I don't see a reason to test Cryo ammo against a target whose total 'health' comprises of mostly shields+armor. In harbringer's case, only barrier+armor. As far as I know, cryo ammo doesn't give any damage boosts, it's the freezing that does.

Instead, I'll test the disruptor ammo, warp ammo, AP ammo and incendiary ammo - squad version for each, and I'll record the time and shots taken to go from 100% protection to 0% health. After that, I'll test the time taken to kill the mech if you change the ammo from disruptor to AP/incendiary/warp once the shields are down (and back to disruptor once the armor is down, maybe).

At least, that's what I think I'll do, we'll see how it goes.

[cruc1al]

NaclynE wrote...

Well the first sniper rifle you pickup is very powerful but needs to be reloaded every shot. it also feature really good barrier/armor penetration.
The sniper rifle you pickup during Thanes quest is not as powerful but doesn't require any immediate reload and can be reloaded after the 12th(?) shot. However it stinks compared to the first rifle in terms of armor/barrier penitration where it takes more shots to do so where the first one can do it in 1-3 on some guys.

As seen in the video, the Viper which you pick up during Thane's recruitment is more powerful in terms of damage per second compared to Mantis, even considering the fact that mantis has a higher armor damage multiplier (1.5 vs. 1.35). Viper has a higher barrier damage multiplier (1.15 vs. 1.0), so against barriers, the DPS difference should be even more than against armor. Which rifle you choose is a matter of preference, as you don't have to be out of cover so much with the mantis, and you might get the infiltrator's cloak bonus to a higher proportion of shots fired.

I am not sure if Widow is getable for the other classes but I found it to be the best for the infiltrator.

It can be had by the Infiltrator and the Soldier, because both can use sniper rifles by default.

Modifié par cruc1al, 13 mars 2010 - 12:10 .

[ScroguBlitzen]

cruc1al wrote...

I don't see a reason to test Cryo ammo against a target whose total 'health' comprises of mostly shields+armor. 

The Cryo vs Mech is just to establish a "baseline".  It should take just as long with Cryo to get to health as it does with no Ammo type, but it is useful info to know just how much faster the other 3 (Disruptor/Warp/AP) are when compared to the baseline.

Anyways, YOU ROCK!

[cruc1al]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

I don't see a reason to test Cryo ammo against a target whose total 'health' comprises of mostly shields+armor. 

The Cryo vs Mech is just to establish a "baseline".

Oh yeah, a control. I get what you're saying and you're right.

[Burdokva]

Great video! I've tended to underestimate the Viper, but you've proven me wrong.



I still prefer the Mantis until I acquire the Widow. The Viper is great, but it requires going out of cover and I like the feeling the Mantis has, just one powerful shot (even if cumulative it's worse than the Viper). The Widow is top notch, esp. with AP ammo.



Which reminds me, could you make a similar test with Infiltrator + AP ammo? It would be nice to see how they affect different sniper rifles.



As for the Viper, unless you have that quick-firing Incisor DLC, it's the ultimate squad-member sniper. Decent damage per shot, large clip and semi-automatic allows the squad-members to provide good fire support (they tend to miss a lot with the Mantis, even with the accuracy upgrade). It's especially effective with Thane + Shredder/Warp rounds combo, from what I've tested.



Otherwise, Legion and the Widow is the best squad sniper support for classes different than the Infiltrator.

[OniGanon]

cruc1al wrote...
Instead, I'll test the disruptor ammo, warp ammo, AP ammo and incendiary ammo - squad version for each, and I'll record the time and shots taken to go from 100% protection to 0% health. After that, I'll test the time taken to kill the mech if you change the ammo from disruptor to AP/incendiary/warp once the shields are down (and back to disruptor once the armor is down, maybe).

At least, that's what I think I'll do, we'll see how it goes.

Oh man, looking forward to seeing that test. A lot of people seem to say not to take a bonus ammo for Infiltrator, but that advice is on the assumption one has the Widow that oneshots things regardless of ammo type.

Why Squad versions though? IMO testing Heavy versions may be more useful.

[Memnon]

Great video - well done!