I am a big fan of immersive character interplay- be it deep friendships or romances. But seriously, in 15 hours, with your romanceable NPC from DAO making only a cameo etc, I have no idea how anyone could reasonably implement this.
I am assuming, this is going to feel urgent, driven like you have no time for anything or anyone else. Hence, maybe Romances didn't "fit" in this scenario?
No romance?!?
Débuté par
Porphyria2
, mars 10 2010 07:47
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#27
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 05:31
akjsdriluwoef
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It took me 40 hours of superb gameplay before I accidentally clicked on Alistair and he gave me a rose. I was totally gobsmacked as I didnt even realise you could interact with the chars like that nor did I see that I could go to camp any time I liked and interact with my party. I promptly ditched that game and started again exploring all the relationships I can and am just toying with going through for the fourth time.
For me the romances and interactions added a massive amount of depth and replay value to an already excellent game.
For me the romances and interactions added a massive amount of depth and replay value to an already excellent game.
#28
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 05:39
Bratt1204
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akjsdriluwoef wrote...
It took me 40 hours of superb gameplay before I accidentally clicked on Alistair and he gave me a rose. I was totally gobsmacked as I didnt even realise you could interact with the chars like that nor did I see that I could go to camp any time I liked and interact with my party. I promptly ditched that game and started again exploring all the relationships I can and am just toying with going through for the fourth time.
For me the romances and interactions added a massive amount of depth and replay value to an already excellent game.
You need to interact with Alistair a bit more than that to receive a rose from him, unless you encountered some sort of bug. I believe having no sort of opportunity for an emotional exchange during gameplay will be quite boring if this is the case in Awakening.
Modifié par Bratt1204, 11 mars 2010 - 05:45 .
#29
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 05:43
RevilFox
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Would it be useless of me to point out that it's all of the relationships you form with your compainions, not just the romances, that makes Bioware games stand out from other RPGs? That, because you actually build the relationship with other characters yourself, and aren't just told that the two of you are friends, they mean more to you and create a deeper emotional impact, regardless of weather or not you end up kissing that person? That, maybe, just maybe, even though there arn't any characters that your Warden is going to fall in love with, it's possible that the relationships you'll form with your new compainions will be just as deep and interesting as the ones you formed with Alister, or Zev, or Lel or even Morigan from Origins?
#30
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 05:53
Shipwr3K
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i just liked the ****s from the pearl really.
#31
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 05:54
Nerdage
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Sounds like you want to be Cailan to Alistair's Anora, I hope you remember how that ended. Anyway, I'd be supprised if he didn't react somewhat differently to you if you romanced him in origins, I don't know that he will but it couldn't be too hard to add, since the voice actor came back anyway and it would only really require a couple more minutes of dialogue.
Anyway, at least your romance returns to some degree, some of us are left with a bit of a plot hole until we get some more info.
Anyway, at least your romance returns to some degree, some of us are left with a bit of a plot hole until we get some more info.
#32
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 05:58
Dethanos
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Well, I'm glad they didn't include that romance crap in this one. I honestly don't see the attraction. The romances made the companions involved far less interesting to me.
I would much rather they spend their development time on more quests, more keep upgrades, more companion dialogue, anything other than romance.
I would much rather they spend their development time on more quests, more keep upgrades, more companion dialogue, anything other than romance.
#33
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 06:01
Shipwr3K
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Dethanos wrote...
Well, I'm glad they didn't include that romance crap in this one. I honestly don't see the attraction. The romances made the companions involved far less interesting to me.
I would much rather they spend their development time on more quests, more keep upgrades, more companion dialogue, anything other than romance.
finally!! someone who understands. instead of having all that romance bull****, they coulda added some guild quests ,sorta like elder scrolls, and make the game longer. Most of the side quests were total crap.
#34
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 06:24
Booglarize
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Here's my take on this - Awakenings looks to be a very solid game on its own, but really poor in terms of it being a continuation of your character's story from the first game, given everything that's being left behind.
It seems to me that it might've even been better to just have it as a completely separate story with no pretension of being a continuation of the first. I think I may end up playing it as an Orlesian wardern (rather than importing my character), for this very reason.
It is also for this reason that I really, really hope the "canon" story for Awakenings is the Orlesian warden rather the Grey Warden from DA:O, which would give BioWare a fresh slate with which to properly continue/conclude your Origins character's story in a future game - which would include romances, among other things. I'd be fairly disappointed if they ended up wrapping up that story for good with Awakenings.
It seems to me that it might've even been better to just have it as a completely separate story with no pretension of being a continuation of the first. I think I may end up playing it as an Orlesian wardern (rather than importing my character), for this very reason.
It is also for this reason that I really, really hope the "canon" story for Awakenings is the Orlesian warden rather the Grey Warden from DA:O, which would give BioWare a fresh slate with which to properly continue/conclude your Origins character's story in a future game - which would include romances, among other things. I'd be fairly disappointed if they ended up wrapping up that story for good with Awakenings.
#35
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 06:43
Aybeden
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RevilFox wrote...
Would it be useless of me to point out that it's all of the relationships you form with your compainions, not just the romances, that makes Bioware games stand out from other RPGs? That, because you actually build the relationship with other characters yourself, and aren't just told that the two of you are friends, they mean more to you and create a deeper emotional impact, regardless of weather or not you end up kissing that person? That, maybe, just maybe, even though there arn't any characters that your Warden is going to fall in love with, it's possible that the relationships you'll form with your new compainions will be just as deep and interesting as the ones you formed with Alister, or Zev, or Lel or even Morigan from Origins?
You are right of course that building friendships do play a big part of it, but it is romance that helps you to achieve the deepest emotional engagement, beyond mere friendships, however deep a friendship might be. My wife and I are friends at one level, but I wouldn't be married to her if I wasn't also romantically involved with her and she with me. Thus the loss of the romance options would inevitably peel away a significant layer of the possible emotional engagement people could have achieved with at least some of the characters and therefore potentially with the game as a whole. It's not for everyone of course, but that's what choice is all about and I believe in a wide choice. You only have to look on these boards to see what a big impact the romance options had in Origins and what their loss would mean to many.
I also come back to the interviews with Ray Muzyka late last year when he set out a vision for the future. Here are two small but significant extracts:
After saying they were trying to engage people on multiple levels, Ray Muzyka said..
"We're trying for emotional engagement. Moment to moment, and also on a grander level, we're trying to make the players feel their choices matter. Ideally they're going to care about the companions they bring alongside them, or dislike them for that matter. They're both equally valid expressions of emotion. You can like or dislike, but so long as you're feeling something for the companions you bring alongside you, then we're winning in a sense. We're compelling a reaction that is rewarding to the players, where they can feel like, yeah, I'm getting something back from this game. It's more than playing through a series of dialogue options and choices. It's more about, I'm starting to care about these characters or dislike them more, to feel something. It's hard, but when you achieve it it's rewarding."
"...But the harder (emotions) to achieve are fondness, regret, sadness, genuine feeling that a romance is actually real. We're getting close to it but we're not quite there. But we're going to reach that point and break through it, like movies have. Movies have broken through that, but they've had a hundred years to develop their craft. Video games have had about 30 now, and the best is still to come."
I find that encouraging.
Modifié par Aybeden, 11 mars 2010 - 07:21 .
#36
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 07:46
Kipperdee
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You are right of course that building friendships do play a big part of it, but it is romance that helps you to achieve the deepest emotional engagement, beyond mere friendships, however deep a friendship might be. My wife and I are friends at one level, but I wouldn't be married to her if I wasn't also romantically involved with her and she with me. Thus the loss of the romance options would inevitably peel away a significant layer of the possible emotional engagement people could have achieved with at least some of the characters and therefore potentially with the game as a whole. It's not for everyone of course, but that's what choice is all about and I believe in a wide choice. You only have to look on these boards to see what a big impact the romance options had in Origins and what their loss would mean to many.
I also come back to the interviews with Ray Muzyka late last year when he set out a vision for the future. Here are two small but significant extracts:
[quote] After saying they were trying to engage people on multiple levels, Ray Muzyka said..
"We're trying for emotional engagement. Moment to moment, and also on a grander level, we're trying to make the players feel their choices matter. Ideally they're going to care about the companions they bring alongside them, or dislike them for that matter. They're both equally valid expressions of emotion. You can like or dislike, but so long as you're feeling something for the companions you bring alongside you, then we're winning in a sense. We're compelling a reaction that is rewarding to the players, where they can feel like, yeah, I'm getting something back from this game. It's more than playing through a series of dialogue options and choices. It's more about, I'm starting to care about these characters or dislike them more, to feel something. It's hard, but when you achieve it it's rewarding."
"...But the harder (emotions) to achieve are fondness, regret, sadness, genuine feeling that a romance is actually real. We're getting close to it but we're not quite there. But we're going to reach that point and break through it, like movies have. Movies have broken through that, but they've had a hundred years to develop their craft. Video games have had about 30 now, and the best is still to come." [/quote]
I find that encouraging.
[/quote]
I completely agree with you. It's about levels of choice and bringing a warmth and emotion to the game, which in turn is more effective in getting closer to total immersion. This is what makes Dragon Age really stand apart from the hundreds of other RPG games on the supermarket shelves....otherwise I may as well go back to playing PacMan.
I also come back to the interviews with Ray Muzyka late last year when he set out a vision for the future. Here are two small but significant extracts:
[quote] After saying they were trying to engage people on multiple levels, Ray Muzyka said..
"We're trying for emotional engagement. Moment to moment, and also on a grander level, we're trying to make the players feel their choices matter. Ideally they're going to care about the companions they bring alongside them, or dislike them for that matter. They're both equally valid expressions of emotion. You can like or dislike, but so long as you're feeling something for the companions you bring alongside you, then we're winning in a sense. We're compelling a reaction that is rewarding to the players, where they can feel like, yeah, I'm getting something back from this game. It's more than playing through a series of dialogue options and choices. It's more about, I'm starting to care about these characters or dislike them more, to feel something. It's hard, but when you achieve it it's rewarding."
"...But the harder (emotions) to achieve are fondness, regret, sadness, genuine feeling that a romance is actually real. We're getting close to it but we're not quite there. But we're going to reach that point and break through it, like movies have. Movies have broken through that, but they've had a hundred years to develop their craft. Video games have had about 30 now, and the best is still to come." [/quote]
I find that encouraging.
[/quote]
I completely agree with you. It's about levels of choice and bringing a warmth and emotion to the game, which in turn is more effective in getting closer to total immersion. This is what makes Dragon Age really stand apart from the hundreds of other RPG games on the supermarket shelves....otherwise I may as well go back to playing PacMan.
#37
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 08:12
bethanyw
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I think the romance makes the game a little trickier. I mean it's easy to chat it up and be friends with someone, or be an antaginist and ****** everyone off, but the romance side of the game adds a bit of suspense, wondering which character likes you, trying to get to know things about different characters that are only disclosed once you get to a certain level of trust and friendship, worrying that if you make the wrong move you'll hurt someone... I don't know I'm definitely concerned that that's not an option in Awakening. I love Origins so much I'm afraid awakening is just going to be a watered down version with way too much running to this room and killing hundred of bad guys that look like this and then running to another room killing hundreds of bad guys that look slightly different... just the same crap over and over while you're just wondering what's up with all your old friends from Origins... sigh.
#38
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 09:34
RiverRat
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~_~ Wharrgarbl!
I'm suddenly having flash backs to Neverwinter Nights 2... You defeated the King of Shadows, you were never found again! Expansion time: you wake up on a cold stone floor... blah blah... You get four new companions, none of your old ones, oh hi, by the way, you remember your romantic interests from the original? Guess what, they died! HAHA!
Deja freaking vu... True NWN2 was Obsidian, not BioWare but... meh.
Oh well... I was keen on Alistair until he waited until after I was involved with Leliana to confess his love to me... and I tried to turn him down kindly... whooosh, -93 to disposition. Reset to 0. "Wow... did I miss renegade interrupt where I kicked him the quads?"
Morrigan's like my ****y older sister but cool... I can understand if Wynne died, she kinda had a cool white female Morgan Freeman going on though, so I'd miss her lectures somewhat.
Shale was my wing-girl. ^-^
What about Dog? We can't have our trusty war hound with us?
Sten... eh... stoic, very good warrior and interesting... wont miss much.
Ohgrin, drunken lout. Good fighter, but wont miss.
I don't know anything about Zeveran, hadn't beaten the game yet, but I slit his throat first time through... oops.
I'm suddenly having flash backs to Neverwinter Nights 2... You defeated the King of Shadows, you were never found again! Expansion time: you wake up on a cold stone floor... blah blah... You get four new companions, none of your old ones, oh hi, by the way, you remember your romantic interests from the original? Guess what, they died! HAHA!
Deja freaking vu... True NWN2 was Obsidian, not BioWare but... meh.
Oh well... I was keen on Alistair until he waited until after I was involved with Leliana to confess his love to me... and I tried to turn him down kindly... whooosh, -93 to disposition. Reset to 0. "Wow... did I miss renegade interrupt where I kicked him the quads?"
Morrigan's like my ****y older sister but cool... I can understand if Wynne died, she kinda had a cool white female Morgan Freeman going on though, so I'd miss her lectures somewhat.
Shale was my wing-girl. ^-^
What about Dog? We can't have our trusty war hound with us?
Sten... eh... stoic, very good warrior and interesting... wont miss much.
Ohgrin, drunken lout. Good fighter, but wont miss.
I don't know anything about Zeveran, hadn't beaten the game yet, but I slit his throat first time through... oops.
Modifié par RiverRat, 11 mars 2010 - 09:35 .
#39
Guest_Eli-da-Mage_*
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 09:37
Guest_Eli-da-Mage_*
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I will miss Loghain as a companion. He was a good guy in the end sequence and i done the ritual. When you actually accept him he is a very deep companion except he needs a helmet. He has a face worse than the undead.
#40
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 09:41
Melca36
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Dethanos wrote...
Well, I'm glad they didn't include that romance crap in this one. I honestly don't see the attraction. The romances made the companions involved far less interesting to me.
I would much rather they spend their development time on more quests, more keep upgrades, more companion dialogue, anything other than romance.
This is 2010 and more women play videogames than they ever have. I suggest you learn to adapt to the demographic changes or just play shooters.
#41
Guest_Eli-da-Mage_*
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 09:45
Guest_Eli-da-Mage_*
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I half agree with Dethanos and Melca. I liked the dialouge caused by romance and approval but i dont want the whole game to turn into mushy sap. By the way shooters can be emotional. Modern Warfare 2 the part where Ghost is killed and burned very sad i wished i could have saved him.
#42
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 09:50
Calahas
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Romance doesn't automatically equal "good story". Obviously, if you romanced Alistair, there'll be a mention of that in the game, and he'll make several cameos probably, so you'll be able to see him and chat with him while still being in a relationship. There just won't be any sex with him, or new romances.
#43
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 09:55
Nhadalie
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Also to the people bashing the romances: Romances are not a necessary part of the game. You don't have to play through the romances. They do help you to understand the characters better in some cases though, and they do show character development through them.
It's quite likely that further expansions or DA2 will include romances. If they don't, it's quite likely that some people will write romance mods. I'm mildly tossing around the idea of making an Anders' romance mod if he doesn't come back in a future game as a romance option. But I have to actually play Awakening before I can figure out if I want to or not.
It's quite likely that further expansions or DA2 will include romances. If they don't, it's quite likely that some people will write romance mods. I'm mildly tossing around the idea of making an Anders' romance mod if he doesn't come back in a future game as a romance option. But I have to actually play Awakening before I can figure out if I want to or not.
#44
Guest_Eli-da-Mage_*
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 10:03
Guest_Eli-da-Mage_*
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Development like Leliana comiting suicide if you love her and take the Ultimate Sacrifice? lolNhadalie wrote...
Also to the people bashing the romances: Romances are not a necessary part of the game. You don't have to play through the romances. They do help you to understand the characters better in some cases though, and they do show character development through them.
It's quite likely that further expansions or DA2 will include romances. If they don't, it's quite likely that some people will write romance mods. I'm mildly tossing around the idea of making an Anders' romance mod if he doesn't come back in a future game as a romance option. But I have to actually play Awakening before I can figure out if I want to or not.
#45
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 10:06
Dethanos
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Melca36 wrote...
This is 2010 and more women play videogames than they ever have.
So? Are you saying that a gamer's interest in romance options is dependent on their gender? That seems a rather sexist attitude.
Melca36 wrote...
I suggest you learn to adapt to the demographic changes or just play shooters.
I suggest you learn to adapt to no romances in Awakening, and go make me a sandwich.
#46
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 10:06
Mavkiel
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Eli-da-Mage wrote...
Development like Leliana comiting suicide if you love her and take the Ultimate Sacrifice? lol
Sure, not all stories have happy endings. In-fact I'd venture some of the more memorable stories are tragedies. Romeo and Juliette?
Edit: oh yes, I went there, comparing DA:O to Shakespeare.
Modifié par Mavkiel, 11 mars 2010 - 10:07 .
#47
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 10:07
Shipwr3K
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you people type 2 much. i have a short attention span. mmkay..bye.
#48
Guest_Eli-da-Mage_*
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 10:11
Guest_Eli-da-Mage_*
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I was joking and i agree ( although Romeo and Juliette sucked ). I just find that a wierd ending for her. I expected she would start an Andraste style cult in your name because of all the good you done. She'll kick herself in the Fade after she finds out that we imported ourselves back to life in Awakening 
#49
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 10:14
chiliztri
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RevilFox wrote...
There's a romance in the game. It's just a Bad Romance. (RAH)² (AH)³ + (RO MA)² MA + (GA)² + OOH(LA)²
Sorry, I've gotta derail the thread.
This is win. Really. <3
#50
Posté 11 mars 2010 - 10:14
Mavkiel
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Eli-da-Mage wrote...
I was joking and i agree ( although Romeo and Juliette sucked ). I just find that a wierd ending for her. I expected she would start an Andraste style cult in your name because of all the good you done. She'll kick herself in the Fade after she finds out that we imported ourselves back to life in Awakening
I actually agree about the Romeo and Juliette, but it is popular. I kind of was thinking more of a greek story, but figured most people wouldnt know wtf I was talking about
