81 réponses à ce sujet

[Default137]

Is the beginning.

I love Bioware games, I always have, I own every single one, and will continue preordering so I can get them on day one, I wouldn't call myself a fanboy, as I realize when games have problems, and do not view Bioware as a flawless company, however I am a fan, and do enjoy their games, DLC, and other projects. However, there seems to be a design idea that Bioware loves to bring in to every single one of their games that just drives me mad, and upon asking around, found it drives many other people mad as well.

And thats the forced after intro area.

The what you may ask?

Candlekeep in BG1, Irenicus Dungeon from BG2, Citadel in ME1, and Ostagar from DA:O are all prime examples of this, the area where you are FORCED to go right after the intro plays, and you start your quest, which never changes, offers you very little in the way of character development, and is usually way to long for its own good. More often then not, these areas can take a person anywhere from 45 minutes to 2 hours, during which time you have to go through the exact same cutscenes, conversations, and god knows what else that you just had to go through on your other 2-3 characters.

Why is this considered a good idea? I could see if there was some character development, or some actual party banter during these sections, but there isn't, its you and two redshirts who will never comment on anything, besides the one encounter that actually got written to have them in, other then that, every conversation is exactly the same as it would be on your Elf, or Dwarf, besides the fact they will address you with a "ho Dwarf!" rather then a "ho Elf!"

The worst part is, for many of these zones, there seems to be a ton of stuff you can only do on that first visit, and many journal entries/codex entries/quests you can only do then, which means you can't just ****** off and actually start playing the game, you have to bunker down for a 2 hour conversationthon that is no different then the last time you did it, and if you dare get bored and leave, you miss out on a ton of interesting info, a ton of possible starter stuff, and feel very out of character if you try to play your character as well, a character.

I dunno, I'm probably rambling a bit here now, but I just wanted to write this out. I've always been annoyed with this, and Bioware games have always been built around freechoice, options, and all sorts of other things, but they always lock all that fun stuff behind this giant 2 hour forced section, thats generally not written to recognize character differences because you'll only be there for 2 hours, rather then the other zones which make up the world.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think you're crazy.

The first art of DAO is the origins, and there's plenty of opportunity for character development. Ostagar (which follows) is much shorter.

Taris (in KotOR) was a very long introductory area, but it also had lots of character development options.

Candlekeep and Irenicus's dungeon were both quite short. Candlekeep also served as a very necessary tutorial, and was a good place to establish your character's personality.

[Faust1979]

I don't have a problem with it in fact I never even thought about it. I like it because it kicks the game into gear. It makes sense when you think about it because they have to have an area that sets up the storyline for the game.

[Faust1979]

 The OP says he isn't the only person that gets upset about this but I have never seen another poster complain about it.  They have to set up the story somehow. 

[the_one_54321]

Why do people care if a game "forces" you to do something or not. Some games ride on one rail, and some games ride of 50 interchangeable rails. Different is not automatically bad.

[DalishRanger]

It's never bothered me at all. After three or four plays I might get a bit impatient and rush through it, but I'd feel the same way even if I got to pick where to go early on.

[Maverick23]

Honestly i think they're better than most beginnings of RPGs

[Dave of Canada]

The Peragus Mining Facility was dreadful.

[DalishRanger]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Peragus Mining Facility was dreadful.

I either love it or hate it, depending on my mood. But that's Obsidian, not Bioware. Same basic set up though, I guess.

[Janni-in-VA]

Even story needs exposition which is simply a section which establishes time, place, setting and introduces some of the characters. So, we have the origin stories and then Ostagar which sets up the main conflict. Your PC is introduced to the world -- not the PLAYER, the PC -- and meets one traveling companion. In Morrowind, it was the prison ship and the first dinky little port town. In Oblivion, it was the palace dungeon and the sewers. In Neverwinter Nights, it's the academy and the escape of the Waterdavian creatures. In Baldur's Gate 2, it's Irenicus' dungeon. It isn't just Bioware who does this. Every game, just as with every story, needs exposition.

[LordFess]

If you want to shorten the conversations to get through it quicker use the space bar to make the cutscenes shorter.

[errant_knight]

LordFess wrote...

If you want to shorten the conversations to get through it quicker use the space bar to make the cutscenes shorter.

After you've heard them once or twice before, of course. Otherwise you miss important stuff. And even after four playthroughs, there are still lots of scenes I don't skip through. I really enjoy the acting and the sense of immersion they bring. Most of the sense of urgency in the story comes from the other characters.

[ExistsAlready]

You could be playing Oblivion. Scrambling around in the dark killing rats and goblins. "You're a prisoner! We don't know why! It'll never come up again! SAVE THE WORLD!"



But then that whole experience tainted me and I love all the Origins with all my heart. Except the Dalish one.

[hexaligned]

The worst part of DAO has to be the fade in the mages tower. Hands down. Whats wrong with Ostagar? It's the same formula as 90% of the rest of the game.

Modifié par relhart, 11 mars 2010 - 04:18 .

[Dallo]

Faust1979 wrote...

 They have to set up the story somehow. 

This....

Set up the story/setting/motivations, give some starting gear, allow for a tutorial.  Insert a bunch of other reasons.  You can't just start in a vacuum...

[Gill Kaiser]

I'd say the problem is much less apparent in this game. The Origin stories mix it up enough for the same-ness of Ostegar to not matter so much.

[Kekse2k]

If the" forced introduction" wasn't there, then most of us would probably be lost in the beginning. Sure, after a while, you should be able to skip them, like the skip mod for Taris in KoTOR I, but even the introduction to DA:O is somewhat varied and captures your interest for a longer duration than other games would.

To be honest, the worst part of every BioWare game is the ending. Not that the ending in particular is bad, but the fact that the game actually ended. Then you do another playthrough to attempt to get your mind blown again, even though it's already pre-blown. Curse you, BioWare.

[StrikeForce]

Ye there is quite a few character options

[NightmarezAbound]

ExistsAlready wrote...

You could be playing Oblivion. Scrambling around in the dark killing rats and goblins. "You're a prisoner! We don't know why! It'll never come up again! SAVE THE WORLD!"

But then that whole experience tainted me and I love all the Origins with all my heart. Except the Dalish one.

 Yes, but you forgot it was, go save the world speach given by the king aka Patrick Stewart.  Go save the world argh thump.

[ismm]

Nah, the worst part was definitely the ending, was there anyone satisfied with it?

Modifié par ismm, 11 mars 2010 - 02:18 .

[Challseus]

Funny, one of the best segments of the game for me was the section between the start of the Human Noble origin and the end of the Ostagar sequence.