126 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabresandiego]

Tier S:
1. Miranda    -Unstable Warp, Area Overload, Squad Bonus, Useful on almost every mission

Tier A:
2. Samara    -Area Reave, Pull Field, Assault Rifle, Extremely versatile

Tier B:
3. Thane      -Unstable Warp, Sniper Rifle, Very high dps and great for warp explosions
4. Jack         -Pull field, Squad Warp Ammo, Great Voice, Outshined by Samara if you don't need warp ammo
5. Jacob       -Pull field, Squad Incendiary ammo, Outshined by Samara if you don't need incendiary ammo
6. Garrus     -Area Overload, Assault Rifle, Sniper, Very good against enemies with blue shields and geth

Tier C:
7. Grunt        -Assault Rifle, Incendiary Ammo, Good tank, Good Voice, He is very fun to bring along
8. Moridin     -Incinerate, Strong shields, Funny remarks, Good against health and armor enemies
9. Tali            -Drone, Energy Drain, AI Hacking, Over specialized against geth
10. Legion   -Sniper Rifle, Drone, AI Hacking, Great sniper and excellent dps but over specialized against geth
11. Zaeed    -Disruptor Ammo, Inferno Grenade, Only source of disruptor ammo and great voice acting

Since certain squadmates are more valuable to specific classes and on
certain missions I did an overall game-wide evaluation for the vanguard
class.

Important Note: This tier ranking is my opinion and is
only accurate if you manually use your squadmate abilities.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 25 mars 2010 - 07:33 .

[FredegarKadere]

Tier 1:

Miranda  -Unstable Warp, Area Overload, Squad Bonus
Samara  -Area Reave, Pull Field, Assault Rifle

Tier 2:

Legion    -Sniper Rifle, Assault Rifle, Shield
Zaeed     -Sniper Rifle, Assault Rifle, damage boost
Grunt       -Assault Rifle, Krogan Charge, health regen
Thane     -Unstable Warp, Sniper Rifle, damage boost

Tier 3:

Garrus    -Overload, Assault Rifle, Sniper

Tier 4:

Jacob     -Shotgun, Biotics
Jack        -Shotgun, Biotics
Moridin   -Incinerate
Tali          -Shotgun, Drone


With that said.. I do not use Samara or Miranda or any Biotics users. We can't have a repeat of the L1 and L2 incidents.

[RamsenC]

I would rate legion higher just because he has the magical drone, a shield ability, and the widow. This is assuming that the AI uses the widow with any kind of competence. Of course I only like the squad drone when I use Vanguard so he probably shouldn't be that high either way, but definitely better than dead last.

[Iz Stoik zI]

Tier 1:



Garrus

Miranda

Thane



Tier 2:



Everyone else.

[implodinggoat]

It definitely depends on your class. I tend to play Soldier, so I'd say...

# 1: Miranda. Heavy warp for barriers and armor, area overload for shields, a passive power which improves the health and weapon damage of the entire squad, and slam for a quick incapacitation or warp combo.
# 2: Samara. Area Reave, Pull Field, Assault Rifle, throw gives instant kills on final mission.
# 3: Thane. Warp, Sniper rifles , pull field, throw gives instant kills on final mission.
# 4: Garrus: Area overload, Assault rifles, Sniper Rifles, and he's pretty tough.
# 5: Grunt: He's a damned tank with an assault rifle and his Krogan charge instakills Husks.
# 6; Mordin: Incinerate for armor and Cryo blast for incapacitation.
# 7; Tali: Energy Drain for shields, AI hacking on synthetics, Attack drone is a great distraction.
# 8: Legion: Widow Sniper Rifle, Assault Rifle, AI hacking on synthetics, Attack drone is a great distraction.
# 9: Morinth; Assault Rifle, Area pull, throw and dominate (organic AI hack.)
#10: Zaeed: Sniper Rifle, Assault Rifle, he's tough and Inferno grenade ain't half bad.
#11: Jacob: Area Pull, and barrier makes him pretty damn tough.
#12: Jack: Area Pull, quick cooldown.

It definitely depends on the enemy you're fighting too.  Miranda is awesome against anything and anyone; but everyone else is more of a specialist.  Tali for example utterly destroys Geth and is pretty damn great against any snynthetic or any shielded enemy; but is pretty worthless on the final mission since collectors are organic and don't have shields.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 11 mars 2010 - 02:04 .

[SmokeyNinjas]

Tier 1:

Miranda -Shes got the powers to deal with every mission in the game



Tier 2:

Everyone else -How good they are depends on what enemys are in the mission your doing.



I would say that Garrus (Overload,Sniper,AP ammo) & Legion (widow,Shield,Drone) are at the top end of tier 2 with Jacob & jack having shotgun & pull being at the bottom end (only being able to Warp Pull saves them from being put down to tier 3)

[Atmosfear3]

RamsenC wrote...

I would rate legion higher just because he has the magical drone, a shield ability, and the widow. This is assuming that the AI uses the widow with any kind of competence. Of course I only like the squad drone when I use Vanguard so he probably shouldn't be that high either way, but definitely better than dead last.

I've seen Legion kill Collectors (on veteran) while they are still in the air flying and about to land with his widow.  He's definitely competent.

[SmokeyNinjas]

Shandepared wrote...

In my Insanity run with my infiltrator I found Jacob and Grunt the most useful. Both can keep themselves alive, concussive shot is useful in a pinch, and Jacob's pull is great for stopping krogan once you get their defenses down. I found Miranda worthless because she dies too easily. Even Tali was less squishy.

Yeah mirandas guns, hp and shields are trash as an infiltrator fighting at long range you want to keep her back with you so you can use her powers not letting her run ahead taking all the aggro as she's just going to die.
If you want squadmates that are going to do well tanking for you then Grunt (HP regen & armor) & Legion (widow, shield & drone for CC) are probs the best.

[implodinggoat]

Shandepared wrote...

In my Insanity run with my infiltrator I found Jacob and Grunt the most useful. Both can keep themselves alive, concussive shot is useful in a pinch, and Jacob's pull is great for stopping krogan once you get their defenses down. I found Miranda worthless because she dies too easily. Even Tali was less squishy.

You've got to order Miranda to make use of a solid piece of cover.  She's fierce; but she's not built to take a lot of damage.   The same is true for most of your squad.   Grunt is a total tank. Jacob and Legion can take a lot of damage too; but they don't have Grunt's huge amount of health or his regeneration ability.   Aside from them Zaeed and Garrus are relatively tough as well; but most of your squad just isn't built to take a beating.

[sandman7431]

DLC makes a huge difference.  If you have the incisor, Garrus, Thane and Zaeed become monster fighters.  It's not so special when you use it but the squad absolutely dominates with it.

[Ehrgeix]

Assuming you don't use/have the incisor, the vindicator on squadmates is *amazing* - like, I'm pretty sure you can clear eclipse/blue suns missions more quickly and safely using garrus + grunt with vindicators than a team built around warp explosions, though ofc warp explosions (or/and area reave) are great vs collectors.

Consequently, having grunt in D tier amazes me - vindicator + inferno ammo + totally ridiculous survivability +strong melee charge makes him one of the best squadmates, imo. Did you only use him with shotguns or something? Generally I think you're just focusing on powers and not looking at how deadly squadmates with vindicators/good personal or squad ammo can be with no power use at all (a squadmate with a vindicator will do more damage with his weapon than with powers). AI on squadmates using vindicators also seems better than AI on squadmates using shotguns or heavy pistols (i.e., they suicide much less, barring the occasional time when you're sitting in cover vs 5 guys and a scion and hear "I AM KROOOGAN!").

I feel the tiers are more like:

Tier A - wide range of usefulness.
Grunt: conc. shot, great weapon damage (vindicator, inferno ammo), great survivability (fort, passive)
Garrus: overload, great weapon damage (vindicator, tungsten ammo), decent survivability
Miranda: overload/warp/passive, mediocre weapon damage (carnifex, no ammo), decent survivability, great squad support via passive

notes: Miranda is odd - good but not necessarily optimal in all squads. maybe really tier B for someone who has played the game once already and can tailor squads to individual missions, especially later in the game when her passive is devalued. She's very good early game and also gets a small boost from squad ammo, though, so who knows. Grunt is unstoppable vs everything but harbinger.


Tier B - medium range of usefulness.
Legion: ai. hacking/c. drone, good weapon damage (widow or vindicator, no ammo), good survivability (GSB)
Samara: reave/pull, good weapon damage (vindicator, no ammo), decent survivability
Zaeed: conc. shot/i. grenade, great weapon damage (vindicator, disruptor ammo), decent survivability
Thane: warp, decent+ weapon damage (mantis, shredder ammo), decent survivability

notes: Legion/Samara/Zaeed are all conditionally tier A sorta - Legion/Samara if using squad ammo and Zaeed if vs synthetics.


Tier C - limited usefulness.
Jacob: pull, decent weapon damage (carnifex, inferno ammo), good survivability (barrier)
Tali: ai. hacking/c. drone/e. drain, mediocre weapon damage (carnifex, no ammo), decent+ survivability (edrain)

notes: Jacob's barrier screws with pull use, and Tali's drone is good but otherwise character power is mediocre, and even in missions she should excel in squad disruptor ammo means PC/zaeed/garrus is probably better.


Tier D - limited usefulness and/or strictly inferior to alternative characters:
Jack: shockwave/pull, decent weapon damage (carnifex, warp ammo), decent survivability
Mordin: c. blast/incin/n. shock, mediocre weapon damage (carnifex, no ammo), decent survivability
Morinth: (samara is better, reave > dominate)

notes: Samara is better than all three of these characters, although jack might have some potential vs collectors for pull/squad warp ammo in a warpexplosion centric team with an ammoless adept or something.


I think this is mostly accurate in a general sense, but if you are playing an infiltrator the more survivable squadmates (Grunt, Legion, and maybe even Jacob) feel much more worthwhile (because they get attacked more). If you're playing an adept/sentinel/engineer good squad ammo (Garrus) becomes much more valuable and consequently characters like Samara or Legion are amazing as your last partymember. If you're playing a vanguard that can give the squad cryo ammo something like Samara/Miranda is probably optimal vs collectors, et cetera. The only squadmates I don't see much point in using from a power perspective are Mordin (after you have Samara's loyalty), Morinth (Samara is better), Jack (unless you have warp and want squad warp ammo), Jacob (unless you are an infiltrator that is tired of squadmates dying), and Tali (*long* drone CD turns her only really good point into... not such a good point).


[mostly unrelated paragraph, feel free to skip]

Incidently, while the weapon comparisonary chart on the wiki is totally useless for real gameplay (because it ignores you "tapping" the weapon and assumes you are terrible at the game and holding your finger down on the fire button), it seems like squadmates actually do fire in this way. If you investigate it ( http://masseffect.wi...onry_Comparison ) the vindicator comes out even better than you would assume because the viper fires really goddamn slowly if you just hold the button down (even the mantis is better). Does anyone know how fast the incisor fires if you hold down the button? could this help to explain the squadmate damage with it or is it purely just the bug where it is not scaled to 55-65% of shepard's damage as other weapons are?)

[end unrelated stuff]

Modifié par Ehrgeix, 11 mars 2010 - 10:07 .

[tonnactus]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

I would rate legion higher just because he has the magical drone, a shield ability, and the widow. This is assuming that the AI uses the widow with any kind of competence. Of course I only like the squad drone when I use Vanguard so he probably shouldn't be that high either way, but definitely better than dead last.

I've seen Legion kill Collectors (on veteran) while they are still in the air flying and about to land with his widow.  He's definitely competent.

Its the same on insanity.He is great,especially the widow combined with a class ammo power.I made samaras recruting mission with him and tali as a soldier.(squad warp amo)
Sometimes i aimed and he killed the foe in this moment.And two attack drones are always usefull.
Tali is also underrated.Energy drain not only destroys shields but also strenght her own ones.So she is also great against enemies with shields like blue suns.

Modifié par tonnactus, 11 mars 2010 - 10:02 .

[TheUnusualSuspect]

For my money:

Tier A:
Miranda:  SMG, Bonus Squad damage + health, Overload (shuts down weapons too), Warp.  Useful in every mission

Samara (loyal):  Assault Rifle, Reave to make enemies stand still, Push to throw enemies over edges, Pull to incapacitate, and all with very short cool-down timers, and sets up warp-bombs with Miranda.  She is an absolute wrecking machine

Tier B:
Grunt: Great survivability and good damage dealt.  Squad Inc. Ammo is good, and concussive is okay, but otherwise doesn't quite reach the levels of Miranda or Samara

Zaeed: Inferno Grenade delivered against tight packs, concussive shot, and +50% weapon damage, IMO, makes for a better damage dealer than Grunt, but survivability is less.

Garrus: Overload to shut down opponent weapons and deal with shields.  Good damge output, and very handy if with squad AP ammo.

Samara if non-loyal

Tier C:
Mordin: Incinerate with short cool-down, and cryo-blast
Legion: Drone + AI Hacking + AR + Shield Boost for survivability.  Useful in more places than Tali
Thane: Good for warp bombs, but otherwise fairly fragile with no killer second power
Jack (loyal): Sqaud warp ammo.
Jacob: He's basically a very weak Grunt (replacing Concussive with Pull)
Tali: Drone can be handy if used carefully, AI hacking great on synthetics, better if loyal with Energy Drain

Tier D:
Jack (non-loyal)

[SmilingMirror]

Tier S
Grunt:
Incinerate Ammo
Only teammate that can Regenerate while under fire
Only teammate that has an Armor bar (incredibly useful IMO)
Has extra 50 points of armor
Only teammate that does the Krogan Rush
Uses Fortification to regain shields
gets a high benefit to weapon damage and health
gets an extra 20% boost in health
Uses an assault rifle and a claymore shotgun

Tiers D&E
Everyone else:
                          blah blah blah

(Yes i'm joking somewhat)

Also, Mordin is actually glitched (or rather the only one working somewhat correctly); he gets shield bonuses from all kinds of things that others aren't getting towards the end of the game, and his incinerate is very powerful. I wouldn't put him top tier but hes definitely higher than most would expect.

Anyways it really depends on your build and stuff, but if your going for overall character power, Grunt just takes the cake i'm afraid. I think its just that alot of you Soldier types don't use him because it seems redundant, which is fine, but thats no reason to rate him down in ability. Hes clearly got the most benefits as shown above.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 12 mars 2010 - 02:21 .

[padaE]

Coping from my topic that I created some time ago:

 Four Stars: Miranda: She is the most effective, versatile and resourceful character. She can fight agains any kind of enemy with any kind of defenses. Also, add to that a unique bonus to all squad, that can add a substancial amont of healthy and/or weapon damage to the whole team. It's true that other team mates can perform some tasks as good as Miranda, but no other can be so effective in any ground. Not to mention she has 31 squad points avaible.
.
Three stars: Garrus: He is very strong team member. With good powers agains both organics/barriers and mechs/shields that can boosted with his passive skill, excellent set of weapons and AP ammo, one of the finest ammo types. Garrus, when deployed in the right place, will have no match.
. 
                       Grunt: He is a tank. No other can take so much damage for you. Very effective in close range, can provide incendiary ammo for your whole squad and Concussive Shot give a fine option to take down enemys and barriers.
.
                        Zaeed: Zaeed in another one that can take a lot of damage for you. He can provide your squad with Disruptor Ammo, making you deadly agains mechs/geth, has Concussive Shot to take down enemys and barriers and Inferno Granade take can be useful agains armor. He is not as resourceful and versatile as Miranda, but can be taken almost everywhere.
.
Two Stars: Legion: He is strongest when fighting other mechs, but when you give him the Widow, he can deal large amounts of damage agains any emeny. However, lacks some confiability because he needs to be shooting your target to deal most of it's damage and his combat drone has a huge cooldown.
.
                   Mordin: The professor has a great combination of powers. He is great agains armor and enemys without defenses, when you have other to take down enemys defenses, MOrdin will be very deadly. Not to metion he has small cooldown due he's upgrade that can be purchased in the Normandy.
.
                    Samara: When Loyal, Samara can easily take down barriers/armor with Reave. She also has some biotics to use in enemys without defenses and an assault rifle.
.
                    Thane: Thane with an sniper rifle and Shredder Ammo can be devastating agains unarmored enemys, with Warp to take down enemys armor/barriers Thane is a great choice in some levels.
.
One Star: Jack: She is the most powerful human biotic, the problem is this doesn't matter to enemys with defenses. Most of Jack powers become almost useless untill you take down enemys' defenses, making it much less effetive. She can provide the excellent Warp Ammo, but is most of the times not worth the trouble of having her on your team.
.
                   Jacob: He lacks great powers. PUll if effetive only at some times, and barrier is a power that helps more himself than the team. In the other hand he can provide Incenediary ammo, but it's not worth it.
.
                   Morinth: She is pretty much Samara without Reave. And considering that's Samara strongest point, that is really not good to the Ardat-Yakshi. It's true that to counter that she got Dominate, but it's really not useful as Reave.
.                 
                 Tali: If Morinth is Samara without Reave, Tali is Legion without the Widow. And again, as in the other case, Widow is Legion strongest point. Tali will do just fine agains geth, but will suffer agains other enemys. Her drone has a huge cooldown making it almost useless. 
.
* out of four stars.
.
Note: Feel free to disagree and discuss. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear at some time, I tryed to be brief and objective. To justify my decision I thought like this: How would our teammates perform if you took them since the beggining, in every mission. Some will suffer a lot in some missions and destroy in others. Some will lack it main strength for most of the time because has to unlock theirs special abilitys and because of having only 30 squad points (save Miranda and Jacob).

Modifié par padaE, 11 mars 2010 - 11:57 .

[mundus66]

S tier: Miranda - Best character no discussion.

A tier: Samara > Thane (better without extra power) > Legion (with Widow) - Always useful.

B tier: Garrus = Zaeed > Morinth - Good but not everywhere.

C tier: Jack > Jacob > Mordin > Tali - Situational.

D tier: Grunt - Useless, no good skills, good survivability, but my squad never dies anyway.

[TheUnusualSuspect]

padaE wrote...

Note: Feel free to disagree and discuss.

Ok.  If Tali is like a weak Legion,  then Jacob is like a weak Grunt.  In comparison he has no armor, charge, health, and health regen.  Concussive shot really isn't that different to Pull, in terms of crowd control.  Pull can yank defenseless enemies over edges, but CS can shove them back over edges too, and CS is effective against barriers.  Pull is great if you got something else to take down defences (good firepower or power), but in the absence of such, CS superior to Pull, except for in certain scenarios.

I think that Dominate is under-rated by many.  True, Rank 1 or 2 of Dominate really aren't that great or helpful, 3 is okay, but Rank 4 of Dominate (Enhanced) is where it really comes good.  Not only do you lock down an opponent for 12 seconds, he's also distracting at least one other opponent, if not more, so essentially you've locked down 2+ opponents while your squad focuses on the others.  Also, there's nothing more amusing than Dominating one of a pair of rocket launcher guys, and watching them blow each other off whatever platform they're standing on and falling to their deaths.  Dominate recharges pretty fast too (6 secs), and usually if there's a pack of opponents, take down the defences of one, dominate it, he starts firing at his mates, you fire at his mates, he eventually dies but the defences are down on other, so you Dominate that one, and wash, rinse, and repeat until there's just one opponent left standing with a sliver of health that you drop with a single bullet.  So long as Shep plus the other squaddie can take down defences fast, Dominate can be useful to make almost every encounter with organics a cinch.

It's a vastly different play-style to the usual gun and run that many choose, but there's no mistaking that it gets the job done.

[mundus66]

TheUnusualSuspect wrote...

Ok.  If Tali is like a weak Legion,  then Jacob is like a weak Grunt.  In comparison he has no armor, charge, health, and health regen.  Concussive shot really isn't that different to Pull, in terms of crowd control.  Pull can yank defenseless enemies over edges, but CS can shove them back over edges too, and CS is effective against barriers.  Pull is great if you got something else to take down defences (good firepower or power), but in the absence of such, CS superior to Pull, except for in certain scenarios.

Pull is one of the best powers in the game for squad mates. Beacuse you can use it to set up warp explotions. For this reason Jacob and Jack is better than Grunt.

Also the reason why Legion is that much better than Tali is beacuse he is the highest damaging squadmate in the game. He also has shorter cooldown on his powers.

[TheUnusualSuspect]

mundus66 wrote...

Pull is one of the best powers in the game for squad mates. Beacuse you can use it to set up warp explotions. For this reason Jacob and Jack is better than Grunt.

Also the reason why Legion is that much better than Tali is beacuse he is the highest damaging squadmate in the game. He also has shorter cooldown on his powers.

Setting up warp explosion is fine, but if you're going to do that, there's no reason to choose Jack or Jacob over Samara, and Jacob's warp-explosion trigger is dependent upon someone else having warp.

In terms of stand-alone ability, Jack & Jacob are poor choices.  In terms of coupling with a team mate with Warp, they're okay, but there are better choices.

[mundus66]

TheUnusualSuspect wrote...
In terms of stand-alone ability, Jack & Jacob are poor choices.  In terms of coupling with a team mate with Warp, they're okay, but there are better choices.

Hence i put them in c tier, Jacob is good for the first half of the game since you do not have Samara yet. Jack is good vs collectors cause of warp ammo and another subsitute to Samara since you don't have her yet. Grunt only got inferno ammo thats any good, which Jacob also does.

[TheUnusualSuspect]

mundus66 wrote...

TheUnusualSuspect wrote...
In terms of stand-alone ability, Jack & Jacob are poor choices.  In terms of coupling with a team mate with Warp, they're okay, but there are better choices.

Hence i put them in c tier, Jacob is good for the first half of the game since you do not have Samara yet. Jack is good vs collectors cause of warp ammo and another subsitute to Samara since you don't have her yet. Grunt only got inferno ammo thats any good, which Jacob also does.

C tier for Jacob/loyal-Jack gets no argument from me.

I guess our only disagreement really is where Grunt sits.  For me, he's definitely B tier because I've found him to be useful on most missions.  You'll have to try hard to convince me he's worse than Jacob and is D tier.

[mundus66]

He is worse, since he is the same as Jacob minus pull.

[Iz Stoik zI]

Are you kidding me?



So twice the HP, regeneration, Claymore shotgun, Fortification, and Assault Rifles don't matter?

[mundus66]

Iz Stoik zI wrote...

Are you kidding me?

So twice the HP, regeneration, Claymore shotgun, Fortification, and Assault Rifles don't matter?

Not more than pull they don't. My squad never dies except when they decide to stand out in the open even though i ordered them to cover (almost never happens, but when it does, it always seem to be Grunt) or vs Scions sometimes, here Grunt dies as fast as anyone. He is not much better but at least he has something useful, Grunt got nothing other than his ammo.

Modifié par mundus66, 12 mars 2010 - 02:46 .