37 réponses à ce sujet

[Kryyptehk]

If you marry Alistair at the end, can you ask for the "title and riches" boon to become the Teryna of Gwaren? I never chose it because I could just imagine Alistair being like, "What? Being Queen not enough for you?"

I have this nefarious plan for the Couslands to rule Ferelden. I mean, you are the Queen of Ferelden, potentiallly the Teryna of Gwaren, the Arlessa of Amaranthine and a Grey Warden Commander. Your brother is the Teryn of Highever. So if the game killed of Alistair (Maker forbid) or if you broke it off with him, you and your family will own most of his kingdom.

Not that I'd ever make my characters break up with him, but still.

[Sarah1281]

The only line that's different is after he grants it to you he says 'in addition to, you know, being Queen.' And isn't the ruling monarch considered the Teryn of Ferelden or something? It is kind of funny how the ending works out though, doesn't it? And if you and Alistair can't have a kid, the next in line would totally be any kid of Fergus's and we know he can have children.

[Kryyptehk]

Alrighty, thank you. I'd really rather not get told off by my betrothed at his coronation lol.

[Sarah1281]

He seems to find your insidious plot to own all of Ferelden amusing actually.

[Kryyptehk]

Sarah1281 wrote...

He seems to find your insidious plot to own all of Ferelden amusing actually.

It's the reason he loves me:lol:. I have enough ambition for the both of us. And technically since he's betrothed to me, he will soon own all of Ferelden too. It works out well for both of us.

But especially me:P

[Vicious]

Allow me to get political for a bit.





MHN's can: Marry Anora. While RTO implies that she is barren, there is no real proof to say she is: So the PC has the potential of putting their own issue on the throne, if not one of Fergus's. Anora very much likes being queen, and having a kid with the hero of Ferelden is a huge benefit for her.





FHN have the downside that they CANNOT have children with Alistair. DG apparently stated it was impossible. So it would be up to Fergus. But it does not bode well that Eamon has pretentions to controlling the throne, as he RTO indicates he attempted with Cailan and attempts again with Alistair. So future instability right there.





MHN's can wipe out Maric's royal line if they so choose, by executing Alistair. The Couslands are one of the oldest families in Ferelden and one who historically always erred on the side of freedom from tyranny/.



And of course, become the Teryn of Gwaren [why not??] your brother Teryn of Highever, and yourself also Arl of Amaranthine.



Thus as you said, Couslands getting their family nearly wiped out has the interesting side effect of handing the entire country over to them, if you play your game that way. Pretty fun, if I may say so.





Executing Alistair. I did so, and when I retrieved Maric's sword [which Alistair had] from the chest with all of his items post-execution, I can honestly say I felt dirty. But I know that the Couslands had become the first Teyrns, and may well have become Kings before Calenhad [Alistair's ancestor] showed up and had them swear fealty at the tip of a sword. I didn't hold it against the guy, but let's face it: His name is an obstacle and a big one.





I would happily let him live and execute Loghain, but his dialogue is ALWAYS BUGGED and regardless of the Landsmeet's outcome, Alistair ALWAYS refers to himself as King! It was so immersion breaking I just spare Loghain every time I go the 'king' route now. At least they bothered to give Loghain extra dialogue about the MHN marrying Anora.

[Sarah1281]

At least they bothered to give Loghain extra dialogue about the MHN marrying Anora.

Really? Does he mention how strange it is that you'll be his son-in-law or something?

[Default137]

Sarah1281 wrote...

At least they bothered to give Loghain extra dialogue about the MHN marrying Anora.

Really? Does he mention how strange it is that you'll be his son-in-law or something?

Yup.

Also mentions you'll be a better king then Cailan ever could have been xD

[Vicious]

Really? Does he mention how strange it is that you'll be his son-in-law or something?

He has some dialogue relating to it, however at the very end you can tell him, "So... I guess you're my father in law now? And he responds with, "And you're my son in-law... Yeah, I know."

[Kryyptehk]

Vicious wrote...

Allow me to get political for a bit.


MHN's can: Marry Anora. While RTO implies that she is barren, there is no real proof to say she is: So the PC has the potential of putting their own issue on the throne, if not one of Fergus's. Anora very much likes being queen, and having a kid with the hero of Ferelden is a huge benefit for her.


FHN have the downside that they CANNOT have children with Alistair. DG apparently stated it was impossible. So it would be up to Fergus. But it does not bode well that Eamon has pretentions to controlling the throne, as he RTO indicates he attempted with Cailan and attempts again with Alistair. So future instability right there.


MHN's can wipe out Maric's royal line if they so choose, by executing Alistair. The Couslands are one of the oldest families in Ferelden and one who historically always erred on the side of freedom from tyranny/.

And of course, become the Teryn of Gwaren [why not??] your brother Teryn of Highever, and yourself also Arl of Amaranthine.

Thus as you said, Couslands getting their family nearly wiped out has the interesting side effect of handing the entire country over to them, if you play your game that way. Pretty fun, if I may say so.


Executing Alistair. I did so, and when I retrieved Maric's sword [which Alistair had] from the chest with all of his items post-execution, I can honestly say I felt dirty. But I know that the Couslands had become the first Teyrns, and may well have become Kings before Calenhad [Alistair's ancestor] showed up and had them swear fealty at the tip of a sword. I didn't hold it against the guy, but let's face it: His name is an obstacle and a big one.


I would happily let him live and execute Loghain, but his dialogue is ALWAYS BUGGED and regardless of the Landsmeet's outcome, Alistair ALWAYS refers to himself as King! It was so immersion breaking I just spare Loghain every time I go the 'king' route now. At least they bothered to give Loghain extra dialogue about the MHN marrying Anora.

Yeah, but then you'd have to be a boy. And boys are icky.

But in all seriousness, I mean that basically the Couslands would control the throne. Because Alistair would more than likely go to you for decisions and you owned the rest of the country. I know it makes more sense for a man, but I only play women.

Of course, I plan on making a man, using the same "Rule Ferelden" strategy, only with Anora instead of Alistair (obviously).

And if you are on PC you can download Dialogue Tweaks to fix the king dialogue with Alistair.

[ejoslin]

My HNF always ends up Teyrna of Gwaren in addition to being queen. As Vicious said, Alistair is amused, not annoyed. Since it's a political marriage (ugh, this usually earns me Ali fangirl hate saying that but here it is), it is expected that Alistair will have a mistress, and hopefully he'll get an heir that way. If not, I'm sure he would acknowledge any child that his princess-consort may have.

If none of that pans out, Fergus CAN have children. And it would make sense to make one of his children an heir. I know Cousland is not Theirin, but since many nobles would have accepted Bryce as king, a Cousland on the throne would probably be accepted.

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 mars 2010 - 12:52 .

[DreGregoire]

I can't but help giggle at this thread, in a good way of course!

[Sarah1281]

You know, all we know is that Alistair and HNF can't have children 'by natural means.' I'm sure in a few universes they're desperate enough to find a way. I'm betting questionable magic is involved.

[Kryyptehk]

Dudes, I made this thread 4 months ago. Begone, you horrible, horrible thread voodooists! -shoos-

[MKDAWUSS]

Vicious wrote...

Allow me to get political for a bit.


MHN's can: Marry Anora. While RTO implies that she is barren, there is no real proof to say she is: So the PC has the potential of putting their own issue on the throne, if not one of Fergus's. Anora very much likes being queen, and having a kid with the hero of Ferelden is a huge benefit for her.

Bodahn/bartender suggests that, as well, IIRC.

FHN have the downside that they CANNOT have children with Alistair. DG apparently stated it was impossible. So it would be up to Fergus. But it does not bode well that Eamon has pretentions to controlling the throne, as he RTO indicates he attempted with Cailan and attempts again with Alistair. So future instability right there.

Now this brings up an interesting question - if Eamon's lead intention is to place Alistair on the throne so he can rule by proxy, how does a female Cousland play into that? She'll probably be pulling Alistair as well.

Also, suppose that Alistair or Anora ruled alone - while it states that Anora never remarried, we don't know if she had a few short-termers that produced heirs.

MHN's can wipe out Maric's royal line if they so choose, by executing Alistair. The Couslands are one of the oldest families in Ferelden and one who historically always erred on the side of freedom from tyranny/.

And of course, become the Teryn of Gwaren [why not??] your brother Teryn of Highever, and yourself also Arl of Amaranthine.

Thus as you said, Couslands getting their family nearly wiped out has the interesting side effect of handing the entire country over to them, if you play your game that way. Pretty fun, if I may say so.

Yep - you basically get even with everyone who screwed you (Loghain and Howe) and get the country as a result.

Executing Alistair. I did so, and when I retrieved Maric's sword [which Alistair had] from the chest with all of his items post-execution, I can honestly say I felt dirty. But I know that the Couslands had become the first Teyrns, and may well have become Kings before Calenhad [Alistair's ancestor] showed up and had them swear fealty at the tip of a sword. I didn't hold it against the guy, but let's face it: His name is an obstacle and a big one.

Yet at the same time, they became ardent royalists. Was the monarch an obstacle? Possibly, but Bryce Cousland held Cailan in high regard.

[Sarah1281]

Yet at the same time, they became ardent royalists. Was the monarch an obstacle? Possibly, but Bryce Cousland held Cailan in high regard.

We don't know that. On the contrary, he doesn't disagree with Howe calling Cailan a moron, he just says that they shouldn't speak of their King like that...which Loghain also does. I think Bryce just respects the position.

[Costin_Razvan]

I think that to.



I also think that if Bryce ever heard what Cailan was planning ( RTO letters ) he would have no problem with Cailan getting executed.

[Corker]

ejoslin wrote...
 I know Cousland is not Theirin, but since many nobles would have accepted Bryce as king, a Cousland on the throne would probably be accepted.

Eamon: We must have the blood of Calenhad on the throne, or the banns will disintegrate into bickering!
Eamon: Go out to the tavern and listen to the nobles.

Bann Sighard: I don't like this 'bastard son of Maric' thing Eamon's proposing.
Bann Ceorlic: Sets a bad precedent, it does!  Better to let the crown pass to the Mac Tir line.
Arl Bryland: Does he want us to say Anora is a bad queen?  I think she's good.
Bann Alfstanna:  Indeed, especially with her father to lead the army.

Warden: Clearly, Theirin blood is of *utmost* importance to these people. (eyeroll)

I'm never sure if Eamon's delusional or it's clumsy writing.  I guess since the nation doesn't fall apart under solo Anora, Eamon's delusional?

Modifié par Corker, 16 juillet 2010 - 02:19 .

[tybbiesniffer]

Corker wrote...

I'm never sure if Eamon's delusional or it's clumsy writing.  I guess since the nation doesn't fall apart under solo Anora, Eamon's delusional?

I always assumed Eamon was too close to the situation to be objective.  His sister was queen so he's bound to be a little biased.  He's got his own singular image of reality much as Loghain does.  Theirin = good, Anyone else = bad.  Besides, be honest...didn't the thought of Anora ruling scare you just a little?

[Costin_Razvan]

No, I didn't scare me any bit. Anora is the perfect Monarch for Fereldan ( well out of the two people you can choose to become Monarch ). If I can accept politicians that are similar to Lady Dace to become rulers in modern times, then I sure as hell can accept ( and even like ) someone like Anora taking the throne.

[Sarah1281]

Corker wrote...

I'm never sure if Eamon's delusional or it's clumsy writing. I guess since the nation doesn't fall apart under solo Anora, Eamon's delusional?

I just figured that, in addition to Eamon wanting to be Alistair's chancellor, he really just didn't like Anora. Not to mention that he was convinced she couldn't have children and since he presumably doesn't know Alistair has fertility issues because he's a GW then I think part of it might have been worry about what would happen when Anora died and they'd lost Calenhad's line and couldn't even replace it with the Mac Tir line.

Edit: Note that although he loves the thought of arranging to marry Anora and Alistair before the Landsmeet as it secures her support, if Loghain dies then Eamon's all 'so, Alistair's King now and Anora is not on the throne' and Anora rolls her eyes and replies 'so much for our plan to rule together' even though Alistair won't take it if he's arranged to marry her. If you carry through with the engagement then Eamon's clearly not happy about it when you talk to him post-Landsmeet.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 16 juillet 2010 - 11:26 .

[OBakaSama]

From memory, Arl Eamon says "So it's decided then, Alistair takes his father's throne." That doesn't necessarily exclude Anora being Queen if that's interpreted as 'Alistair will become king'. It just seems to be confirmation of recognizing that Alistair is a legitimate heir to the throne. Alistair always reacts as 'what?' hardened or unhardened. Just saying.

[Sarah1281]

OBakaSama wrote...

From memory, Arl Eamon says "So it's decided then, Alistair takes his father's throne." That doesn't necessarily exclude Anora being Queen if that's interpreted as 'Alistair will become king'. It just seems to be confirmation of recognizing that Alistair is a legitimate heir to the throne. Alistair always reacts as 'what?' hardened or unhardened. Just saying.

No, he is trying to put Alistair on there by himself and isn't happy if that doesn't happen and he DOES react differently if hardened. This is what happens:

If hardened, killed Loghain himself, and not engaged to Anora (and possibly also if not romancing a HNF though I'm not positive on this one): 
Eamon: So it is decided. Alistair will take his father's throne.
Alistair: I accept this decision. I will be king, if the Landsmeet will have me.
Eamon: Anora, the Landsmeet has decided against you. You must now swear fealty to our king, and relinquish all claim to the throne for yourself and your heirs.
Anora: If you think I will swear that oath, Eamon, you know nothing of me.
Eamon: We cannot leave Ferelden in a state of civil war. We must have unity. If she will not swear fealty to you, Alistair, and renounce her claim to the throne, she is a threat to us all.

Clearly, he's not open to her ruling with Alistair. And why would he be? Even if Loghain's theory about Eamon's snobbery towards new nobility like Anora isn't true (and he does make a pretty compelling argument for Eamon knowing Connor was a mage but letting Isolde try to  hide it so his unmarried and childless brother wouldn't inherit Redcliffe and then it passed out of their family entirely upon Teagan's death) then remember: he wants Alistair on the throne for his bloodline and he believes Anora to be infertile.

I guess you could say that that was because nothing was said about Alistair and Anora marrying but if you set it up with them beforehand and tell Eamon about it (but you can't have Alistair duel Loghain for this to work as Anora won't marry the man who actually executed her father) you get this:

Eamon: So it is decided. Alistair will take his father's throne.
Alistair: Wait, what? No! When did this get decided? Nobody's decided that, have they?
Anora: So much for our plan to rule together. If Alistair would rather not have the throne, I am more than willing to take it.
Eamon: I hardly think you're the appropriate person to mediate this, Anora. Warden, will you help us?
PC: Yes, I can settle this.
Eamon: As the arbiter of this dispute, what is your decision? Who will lead Ferelden?

Then afterwards if they're co-ruling you get this:
Eamon: Marrying Alistair to Anora... would not have been my first choice. Still, it does keep the Theirin bloodline alive, and Anora is a fine ruler. So I suppose I owe you thanks, Warden. All of Ferelden does.

He sounds happy about the plan pre-Landsmeet as this gets Anora's support on your side but he never expected you to actually go through with it.

[OBakaSama]

A bit of a counterfactual argument you have there, but that's fine. All I claim is what Arl Eamon said with that line doesn't exclude Anora's, or anyone else for that matter, ruling with Alistair. That he later says something else doesn't change what he said.



I never got that first conversation you mention though, even though I have hardened Alistair and had him execute Loghain. What am I missing? Does Alistair need to duel Loghain for that? Do share.

[Sarah1281]

OBakaSama wrote...

A bit of a counterfactual argument you have there, but that's fine. All I claim is what Arl Eamon said with that line doesn't exclude Anora's, or anyone else for that matter, ruling with Alistair. That he later says something else doesn't change what he said.

I never got that first conversation you mention though, even though I have hardened Alistair and had him execute Loghain. What am I missing? Does Alistair need to duel Loghain for that? Do share.

I don't see what's counterfactual about it at all. Eamon wants her support, claiming that she can share the throne with Alistair is far more plausible then just saying that you changed your mind about having Alistair rule, but Anora is both the granddaughter of a farmer and he doesn't think she can have babies.

The way the dialgoue flows with Eamon getting his way and not having you mediate goes like this:
Alistair: *kills Loghain*
Eamon: Okay, Loghain's dead so Alistair's King.
Alistair: I'm cool with that.
Eamon: Anora, since we just put Alistair on the throne and I'm not even going to mention out previous deal to have you co-rule, swear fealty to Alistair.
Anora: Like hell.
Eamon: My, my, we can't have that. Alistair?
Alistair: Despite having promised to marry her and co-rule I really don't want to so lock her up. Don't worry, though, should I get myself killed during the Blight she can be Queen.

Paraphrasing, of course, but how does Eamon's dialogue (quoted two posts up) in any way indicate that he wants her on the throne? He expresses doubt when the idea is first brought up but acknowledges the idea could sway the Landsmeet against Loghain (and get her support), he is shocked and thrilled at her support if you tell him she'll do it before the Landsmeet, at the Landsmeet he quickly tries to equate 'dead Loghain' with 'Alistair solo King' despite what he knows has been agreed upon and Anora's candidacy regardless. If you do honor the agreement, he expresses displeasure that Anora and Alistair will marry but admits she's good at her job.

Can you tell me why that's counterfactual or in any way doesn't make sense instead of telling me that it doesn't and leaving it at that? Even Eamon's reasoning for his seemingly inconsistent position on the issue are accounted for!

And the conditions for Alistair accepting are hardened, did not arrange to marry him to Anora beforehand, and kills Loghain.