78 réponses à ce sujet

[Antigone2283]

This is a question for those of you who have read The Calling (and has a big old spoiler for the end of The Calling...if you wanna read it, and haven't, go no further!)  What's up with Goldanna?




At the end of The Calling, it is heavily implied that the elf mage Fiona is Alistair's mother.  If that's the case, then who the heck is Goldanna?  She can't be Alistair's sister, at least not by way of their mother.  Goldanna says that her mother died, and the baby with her, and that when she said the baby was the King's they paid her off and sent her away.  Is Goldanna's mother just another of the King's exploits? And even if she is, that still doesn't make Goldanna Alistair's sister, as we know his his mother is Fiona, and NOT Goldanna's mother, and Goldanna's father is NOT the king.  There doesn't actually appear to be any blood shared between them. Has anybody seen an explanation for this other than, "Ooops?"

[Keithhy]

Oops.

[Maugrim]

No one really knows but one popular theory is that one of the female maids at Redcliffe died in childbirth at an opportune time, as did the child and Duncan/Maric/Eamon died a baby swap. That may have been discarded or disproved since I last payed any attention though.

[Kryyptehk]

makenzieshepard wrote...

No one really knows but one popular theory is that one of the female maids at Redcliffe died in childbirth at an opportune time, as did the child and Duncan/Maric/Eamon died a baby swap. That may have been discarded or disproved since I last payed any attention though.

No, I think that is the pet theory in regards to Fiona's Baby. I used to think Fiona wasn't Alistair's mother, but everything surrounding them is far too constructed to be an accident.

[Thor Rand Al]

Too bad Duncan isn't around anymore, he'd be able to say considering he is the 1 that was there when Fiona told/showed Maric the baby. But maybe Fiona might show up in an expansion somewhere down the line. It never says whether Fiona died.

1 thing is for sure, Alistair is Maric's. As far as whether he's Fiona's too we don't know but a very good possibility. And if that's the case then no Goldanna isn't Alistair's sister. Heck I don't even see a resemblance there anyways lol.

[Sarah1281]

If Fiona is the mother and that ever came to light, that could cause some major political problems for Alistair. If an elf PC can't take the throne even though his/her kids would be human, clearly they don't want a half-elf on the throne.

[Thor Rand Al]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If Fiona is the mother and that ever came to light, that could cause some major political problems for Alistair. If an elf PC can't take the throne even though his/her kids would be human, clearly they don't want a half-elf on the throne.

True but I think because of who Alistair's father is and the Therin bloodline, I don't think the elven blood will have much of an issue.  The Therin bloodline is why Alistair's brought forth as a candidate for the throne. 

This whole thing brings up another question though.  Does Eamon even know that Alistair might be half-elf (if he is Fiona's)?  There's a good possiblilty that even he might not know.  There's only 1 other person that we definitely know besides Fiona that knows about Alistair's true identity was Duncan.

[Stuffy38]

Have a hunt around on these forum topics and you'll see that there's no half elves.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/47/index/590503

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/47/index/440906

Modifié par Stuffy38, 11 mars 2010 - 09:29 .

[Wittand25]

I dont think Alistair is Fiona´s child, it does not fit with Alistairs backstory.
First it gets mentioned that Alistairs birth was keep secret to protect Rowan who was several years dead when the Marik/Fiona relationship started. Second Alistair mentions to wynne a meating with Cailan as children which sounds as if Cailan is the younger of the two, Fiona´s child would be several years younger than him. Third Fiona and Marik both wanted the child to grow up without knowing about his heritage, Alistair is fully aware of beeing Maric´s son.

Modifié par Wittand25, 11 mars 2010 - 09:57 .

[krylo]

Stuffy38 wrote...

Have a hunt around on these forum topics and you'll see that there's no half elves.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/47/index/590503

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/47/index/440906

Actually, while there's no people that have distinctly half-elven features, and half-elves are human genetically/physically/whatever--Elvhen blooded is apparently used as a term for humans born of elven parentage.  Most of them live in alienages, and they're looked down upon by full blooded humans.  Per Gaider.

Too lazy to find the post, right now, however.

[Xandurpein]

So... if Alistair is not Fiona's then there is one more child of Maric's hidden away somewhere. Interesting.

[SurelyForth]

Wittand25 wrote...

I dont think Alistair is Fiona´s child, it does not fit with Alistairs backstory.
First it gets mentioned that Alistairs birth was keep secret to protect Rowan who was several years dead when the Marik/Fiona relationship started. Second Alistair mentions to wynne a meating with Cailan as children which sounds as if Cailan is the younger of the two, Fiona´s child would be several years younger than him. Third Fiona and Marik both wanted the child to grow up without knowing about his heritage, Alistair is fully aware of beeing Maric´s son.

Rowan had only been dead for a few years when Maric met Fiona. The only two people who say that Rowan is a factor in why Maric "hid" Alistair is Eamon and Loghain. It makes sense as an excuse for why Rowan's brother is raising Alistair. It's never clear when Loghain found out about Alistair, Maric may have lied to him about his age to keep Loghain from suspecting that Alistair's mother was one of the Grey Wardens he wandered off with (since Loghain would probably not reacted well to that bit of news).

Alistair's story about Cailan doesn't really make it obvious who was older. Cailan is 25/26/27 in the game and it's commonly accepted (and even confirmed by Gaider, I think) that Alistair is in his early 20's.

It's never explained why Alistair would be told that he was Maric's son at all, since Eamon even hid it from Isolde. Alistair makes it clear that it was made clear to him that he had no place in line for the throne, and even that there was no room for him "raising rebellions". Since Eamon didn't have that much contact with him after he was sent to the Chantry, I think that's a wierd thing to tell a fairly young child.

Of course, the simple assumption would be that Alistair heard rumors about the identity of his father (or maybe he asked Eamon if Eamon was his father?) and Eamon went the honest route.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 11 mars 2010 - 02:34 .

[jpdipity]

Maric met Fiona when Cailan was 9 yrs old; so, the timeline is a little off, but I believe that Fiona is likely Alistair's mother.

Fiona did not want the child to know that his mother was an elf nor did she want him to have the pressures surrounding kingship. It is very likely that the information that Alistair, Loghain & Eamon have is fabricated to a certain extent. Duncan & Maric are probably the only ones who know the entire truth and we don't have any accounts from them.

Also, Maric wanted the child in his life. Since no other children or relationships are even mentioned in the book, I doubt that there is another secret child out there. If he had other children, he probably would have wanted them in his life as well and we'd know about them.

[Wittand25]

If Cailan is really that much older Alistair´s conversation does not make much sense (unless you want to imply that Cailan is mentally challenged). Also a several year younger bastard would not threaten Cailan´s claim to the throne, but this threat was mentioned as one of the reasons for keeping Alistair´s birth secret.

Ofcourse all this inconstencies could be leftovers from the time before Alistair was rewritten (similar that Zevrans tatoo´s get mentioned in party banter but are not visible ingame.)

[SurelyForth]

Wittand25 wrote...

If Cailan is really that much older Alistair´s conversation does not make much sense (unless you want to imply that Cailan is mentally challenged). Also a several year younger bastard would not threaten Cailan´s claim to the throne, but this threat was mentioned as one of the reasons for keeping Alistair´s birth secret.

Ofcourse all this inconstencies could be leftovers from the time before Alistair was rewritten (similar that Zevrans tatoo´s get mentioned in party banter but are not visible ingame.)

All Cailan says is "Ooh, swords!". Since you have a 300 year-old golem in your party who says "Ooh, shiny!" when you bestow gifts upon her, I don't think it's an indication of age or mental capacity.

[Addai]

I believe Gaider has corrected the timeline to affirm that Cailan was 5 years old at the time of The Calling.

[Wittand25]

SurelyForth wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

If Cailan is really that much older Alistair´s conversation does not make much sense (unless you want to imply that Cailan is mentally challenged). Also a several year younger bastard would not threaten Cailan´s claim to the throne, but this threat was mentioned as one of the reasons for keeping Alistair´s birth secret.

Ofcourse all this inconstencies could be leftovers from the time before Alistair was rewritten (similar that Zevrans tatoo´s get mentioned in party banter but are not visible ingame.)

All Cailan says is "Ooh, swords!". Since you have a 300 year-old golem in your party who says "Ooh, shiny!" when you bestow gifts upon her, I don't think it's an indication of age or mental capacity.

It is if it is the response of an fourteen year old who just got introduced to his five year old halfbrother.
Ok with a five year age difference between the two it could work, but that does not change that all other information in game and the book points to the fact that Alistair is not Fiona´s son (Eamon, Goldana, the fact that Duncan was the one tasek to find a place for the child, ... )

Modifié par Wittand25, 11 mars 2010 - 04:45 .

[jpdipity]

Wittand25 wrote...

If Cailan is really that much older Alistair´s conversation does not make much sense (unless you want to imply that Cailan is mentally challenged). Also a several year younger bastard would not threaten Cailan´s claim to the throne, but this threat was mentioned as one of the reasons for keeping Alistair´s birth secret.
Ofcourse all this inconstencies could be leftovers from the time before Alistair was rewritten (similar that Zevrans tatoo´s get mentioned in party banter but are not visible ingame.)

You have to remember that everything Alistair knows, the codex entries and what you hear from Eamon or Loghain are their knowledge of the situation and not necessarily the truth.  Fiona's child is not a threat to Cailan's claim - neither Maric or Fiona think this; however, it would be a convenient excuse to provide to others as a reason to hide the child.

[Monica21]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If Fiona is the mother and that ever came to light, that could cause some major political problems for Alistair. If an elf PC can't take the throne even though his/her kids would be human, clearly they don't want a half-elf on the throne.

Possibly, but who's going to tell? The only people who knew were Fiona, Duncan and Maric. Fiona might still be alive and why would she talk?

[Sarah1281]

It is if it is the response of an fourteen year old who just got introduced to his five year old halfbrother.

He's probably paraphrasing.

[jpdipity]

Wittand25 wrote...

It is if it is the response of an fourteen year old who just got introduced to his five year old halfbrother.
Ok with a five year age difference between the two it could work, but that does not change that all other information in game and the book points to the fact that Alistair is not Fiona´s son (Eamon, Goldana, the fact that Duncan was the one tasek to find a place for the child, ... )

Duncan said that he would watch him which should not arouse much suspicion, keep him safe and bring news every now and then to Maric.  He did not say that he'd raise the child. 

Duncan did watch over Alistair and tried to keep him safe - Alistair even says that Duncan kept him from the battles.

[nos_astra]

Wittand25 wrote...
It is if it is the response of an fourteen year old who just got introduced to his five year old halfbrother.

You know that Alistair deflects unpleasant topics with humor?
It's not too hard to assume he's joking and that Cailan actually said something along the lines of "Pleased to meet you, Alistair. Now Bann Teagan, you told me about the armory..."
Enough to hurt a small boy who desperately wants to have a family, my brother doesn't care, swords are more important. And later Alistair retells the meeting in his own way: "Ooh, swords!"

Modifié par klarabella, 11 mars 2010 - 05:06 .

[Wittand25]

jpdipity wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

It is if it is the response of an fourteen year old who just got introduced to his five year old halfbrother.
Ok with a five year age difference between the two it could work, but that does not change that all other information in game and the book points to the fact that Alistair is not Fiona´s son (Eamon, Goldana, the fact that Duncan was the one tasek to find a place for the child, ... )

Duncan said that he would watch him which should not arouse much suspicion, keep him safe and bring news every now and then to Maric.  He did not say that he'd raise the child. 

Duncan did watch over Alistair and tried to keep him safe - Alistair even says that Duncan kept him from the battles.

Why would Duncan appraoch Eamon, a man he never met, to take care of the child ? And why would Eamon or Maric agree to this ?
Not to mention that the whole Goldana story must be the stupidest attempt at covering up a royal bastard in the history of Thedas.

[SurelyForth]

Wittand25 wrote...

jpdipity wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

It is if it is the response of an fourteen year old who just got introduced to his five year old halfbrother.
Ok with a five year age difference between the two it could work, but that does not change that all other information in game and the book points to the fact that Alistair is not Fiona´s son (Eamon, Goldana, the fact that Duncan was the one tasek to find a place for the child, ... )

Duncan said that he would watch him which should not arouse much suspicion, keep him safe and bring news every now and then to Maric.  He did not say that he'd raise the child. 

Duncan did watch over Alistair and tried to keep him safe - Alistair even says that Duncan kept him from the battles.

Why would Duncan appraoch Eamon, a man he never met, to take care of the child ? And why would Eamon or Maric agree to this ?
Not to mention that the whole Goldana story must be the stupidest attempt at covering up a royal bastard in the history of Thedas.

Duncan didn't approach Eamon- Maric did (Eamon was his brother-in-law, after all). Duncan just travelled with Fiona to bring the baby to Ferelden and said that he would keep an eye on it on her behalf.

The Goldanna story makes sense if her mother was a pregnant serving girl in Redcliffe castle who died right around Alistair's arrival. She was young enough that, if she heard murmurings about the king's baby, she might think they refer to her mother's baby. Hey, if Alistair is Fiona's child, obviously the story fooled at least two people.

Speaking of Goldanna, I think that, had her mother's baby actually been King Maric's, Eamon and Maric would have tried to do a little more for her. I have a hard enough time believing that the Maric from the books would knock up a serving girl, much less knock up a serving girl, foist said child on his brother-in-law and completely ignore the serving girl's previous child who is now sans parents, thanks to his wandering eye.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 11 mars 2010 - 05:28 .

[nos_astra]

Wittand25 wrote...
Why would Duncan appraoch Eamon, a man he never met, to take care of the child ? And why would Eamon or Maric agree to this?

Duncan promised to watch him. Maric promised to raise him away from court.

Wittand25 wrote...
Not to mention that the whole Goldana story must be the stupidest attempt at covering up a royal bastard in the history of Thedas.

The book is retconning the original story anway.