51 réponses à ce sujet

[krylo]

soteria wrote...

And maybe they should implement perma-death, or at *least* a level lost for dying, too.

You know, I remember those old games, but let's face it, most of us who played MUDs that required you to eat food just macroed it or even just used a trigger. It was a touch of "realism," sure, but it really didn't add any gameplay value in the long run.

Psh, maybe you did.

I saved my triggers for more important things.  Like training my spell casting.  Typing "Pick up apple;eat apple" ten times was so much less tedious than typing "cast summon storm elemental" waiting for ten seconds, and then hitting enter, repeat for hours.  Just leave that **** go and watch TV or something with one eye on the screen to make sure no one gets you for botting.

[Ken555]

Thats true but as in maybe you could use actual food and water to heal instead of poultices, the only time I actually drank stuff was in the Tapsters Tavern.

[original6]

metatheurgist wrote...

I think most people don't like food/water because in 99.99% of games it was an afterthought tacked onto the game that had no function other than be a meter that drained too quickly then annoyed players when it was empty. If it was built into the game mechanics in a meaningful way, it would add scope to the situations and environments you'd find yourself in.

Exactly!  I'm all for realism, but if something is implemented just for the sake of being there, why bother?  IMO, the food in Oblivion and Fallout 3, for that matter, are rather pointless.  The amount of HP you gain from consuming them is marginal at best.  At least in Oblivion you can use the food to create potions.  I think the same goes for sleeping.  It's nice that it rejuvenates your HP in OB and FO, but there's no penalty either for staying awake for days.  

[sajahVarel]

Yeah I agree, take might and magic for instance, you had to rest from time to time because the fatigue was affecting your chars state (fine -> tired -> insane -> inconsious -> dead), and the food was used to camp (resting outside) or travel from an area to another.



But first thing to implement if you want put food in a game, is to put a game time, there is no game time is dao (I don't even think the engine can handle it from the start, you maybe will have script it).

[soteria]

I saved my triggers for more important things. Like training my spell casting. Typing "Pick up apple;eat apple" ten times was so much less tedious than typing "cast summon storm elemental" waiting for ten seconds, and then hitting enter, repeat for hours. Just leave that **** go and watch TV or something with one eye on the screen to make sure no one gets you for botting.

Mushclient had unlimited client-side triggers, IIRC. For important stuff I would use server-side triggers.

So like...

You are hungry.
Triggered!
open pack
get jerky from pack
get jerky from pack
Samuel enters.
get jerky from pack
get jerky from pack
eat jerky
eat jerky
You are no longer hungry.
eat jerky
Samuel eats some jerky. Yum!
eat jerky
What jerky?
say Douche.
You say, "Douche."

Ahhh.... good times.

Modifié par soteria, 13 mars 2010 - 09:07 .

[Havokk7]

sajahVarel wrote...
But first thing to implement if you want put food in a game, is to put a game time, there is no game time is dao (I don't even think the engine can handle it from the start, you maybe will have script it).

And then make sure that the advance of time is not constant. It should advance slowly, or not at all, during conversations. It should advance very fast during overland travel. Having a fixed time is stupid. Imagine if DAO had a 2 hour day then it would take at least four hours realtime to travel from Redcliffe to Denerim.

I remember a NWN PW that had food that had to be eaten every (IIRC) ten minutes realtime. The problem was, sitting around having a conversation could take more than that. It was jarring having to eat a full mean once, twice or more during a conversation.

Besides, eating is mundane boring stuff. I don't want to do mundane boring stuff in a game. It's a game, not a simulation. If a game has eating and drinking, what is next? Showering? Laundry? How about a darning socks or mending armour minigame? A personal hygiene quest (including nail-trimming and hair-cutting)?

Tying food to overland travel as a fuel-like resource is OK, though still annoying. For example, I don't like the new fuel mechanic for the Normandy in ME2.

B

[Ken555]

original6 wrote...

metatheurgist wrote...

I think most people don't like food/water because in 99.99% of games it was an afterthought tacked onto the game that had no function other than be a meter that drained too quickly then annoyed players when it was empty. If it was built into the game mechanics in a meaningful way, it would add scope to the situations and environments you'd find yourself in.

Exactly!  I'm all for realism, but if something is implemented just for the sake of being there, why bother?  IMO, the food in Oblivion and Fallout 3, for that matter, are rather pointless.  The amount of HP you gain from consuming them is marginal at best.  At least in Oblivion you can use the food to create potions.  I think the same goes for sleeping.  It's nice that it rejuvenates your HP in OB and FO, but there's no penalty either for staying awake for days.  

Yes, thank you, I mean if you could sleep in your party camp for instance.

[Ken555]

For instance the only guy that I know that actually eats food and water is that prisioner in Ostagar.

[rhiain]

Besides, eating is mundane boring stuff. I don't want to do mundane boring stuff in a game. It's a game, not a simulation. If a game has eating and drinking, what is next? Showering? Laundry? How about a darning socks or mending armour minigame? A personal hygiene quest (including nail-trimming and hair-cutting)?

Well, in fairness... there's always the Sims.....



I found some of the timeline stuff a little confusing, too. I guess the whole story is mean to take about a year (give or take), and I can see why the devs didn't make it too specific--they wanted to avoid scripting a particular order you had to do the zones--but it would have been nice to get something, maybe at the Landsmeet, indicating just how much time had passed total.

[CJ11ffht]

UpiH wrote...

If you're feeling thirsty, just go to the Brecilian forest temple and drink.

lol he would have a very long walk on his hands if he had to do that all the time.

[metatheurgist]

Havokk7 wrote...
Besides, eating is mundane boring stuff. I don't want to do mundane boring stuff in a game. It's a game, not a simulation. If a game has eating and drinking, what is next? Showering? Laundry? How about a darning socks or mending armour minigame? A personal hygiene quest (including nail-trimming and hair-cutting)?

Aren't most games sims? CRPGs are mostly a combat sim. I like CRPGs because the combat is mostly about thinking about the makeup of my group and what tactics and strategies to employ. FPSer's think that's mundane and boring because they don't get to demonstrate their l33t hand-eye co-ordination skills and those are the only thing that's real while thinking is for lamers (generalisation intended to make a point and not to offend).

The trick is to make it interesting. I like the idea that I might have to think about more than gold when I head out into the wilderness. I think it'd be more interesting if Survival was actually about being able to live in the wild rather than being +x% Nature immune. It'd give the ranger/woodsman more traction than just being a DW DPS'er and justify bringing the guy along in the wild rather than in the city.

Of course not everyone may find that as compelling as I do. Especially if they're a casual gamer.

Modifié par metatheurgist, 15 mars 2010 - 02:26 .

[Daewan]

I would like to sit down at camp once or twice and talk over some food, like in Grandia. But requiring me to Inventory > Apple > Use; Inventory > Water > Drink in the middle of a fight? No thanks, do not want.

[Oak Tree Leaf]

This thread makes me wana download fallout 3 again and download the realism mods for hunger and such!



And I also remember the grandia ll eating in Inns bit, props to daewan for reminding me xD

[Dallo]

UpiH wrote...

If you're feeling thirsty, just go to the Brecilian forest temple and drink.

[UberuceIAm]

I'm not sure there's any point in chasing a realistic dietary pattern when the injury system is hitpoints. I doubt I'd want to play a game with a realistic injury system, but it's far sillier than assuming the nomming takes place off camera during load screens.

Seems like trying to chase down a mouse when there's a burglar ferrying stuff out your window.

Modifié par UberuceIAm, 15 mars 2010 - 11:30 .

[sajahVarel]

"I'm not sure there's any point in chasing a realistic dietary pattern when the injury system is hitpoints. I doubt I'd want to play a game with a realistic injury system, but it's far sillier than assuming the nomming takes place off camera during load screens. "



I liked the injury system in drakensang (you get an injury point when you get hit by a crit strike and after a certain number of injuries, you die even if you are full life, but well criticals were a bit rarer than in other rpgs).

[Ken555]

UpiH wrote...

If you're feeling thirsty, just go to the Brecilian forest temple and drink.

Yes, but it would be so much easier if you could just fill a pouch with that spring water, so that you could drink whenever you want to, or at least until it runs out, or carry the ale from the tapsters tavern and drink when you feel like it. and you didn't mention food.

[mousestalker]

Sure, but only if they get the right person to issue the vocal warnings: "Wizard needs food, badly".

Modifié par mousestalker, 15 mars 2010 - 04:13 .

[AlanC9]

metatheurgist wrote...
If it was built into the game mechanics in a meaningful way, it would add scope to the situations and environments you'd find yourself in.

But wouldn't it have to be built in the situations themselves? Right now, there really isn't anyplace in DA:O where you'd expect rations to be a serious concern. Sure, you could redesign the game so you are days from a supply source, but that would be a different game.

About the only exception I can think of is going to Flemeth's hut in the midgame, unless the Dalish are really far out there. Everyplace else, you're in or near civilized territory, unless you think the Deep Roads area is larger than I do.

Edit: in my experience, even in PnP RPGs rations aren't typically a concern, unless the circumstances are special. 

Modifié par AlanC9, 15 mars 2010 - 05:09 .

[metatheurgist]

AlanC9 wrote...
But wouldn't it have to be built in the situations themselves? Right now, there really isn't anyplace in DA:O where you'd expect rations to be a serious concern. Sure, you could redesign the game so you are days from a supply source, but that would be a different game.

About the only exception I can think of is going to Flemeth's hut in the midgame, unless the Dalish are really far out there. Everyplace else, you're in or near civilized territory, unless you think the Deep Roads area is larger than I do.

The distances are quite large in Ferelden, it's not apparent in the game but it does take days to travel from one location to another. Part of the reason most players most don't realise this is probably because there are no "mundane" concerns like the need to keep hydrated and fed.
 
Yes it would end up being a different game, since you'd have to concern yourself with more than just how much gold I have and what combat skills to take. Some players may like the extra challenge but I suspect most casual gamers would rather not think about it. Food would probably take inventory space and there's already enough gripes about that.

AlanC9 wrote...
Edit: in my experience, even in PnP RPGs rations aren't typically a concern, unless the circumstances are special. 

There's been mention about how food is only done in PnP games but in my experience it's impossible to convince players it's worthwhile to track their rations. Most RPGs don't have hard rules for diet. The GM ends up having to track food for the players and come up with penalties to impose. It ends up being more work for the GM which is not done. It'd actually be more feasible to get a computer game to do this stuff well.

[AlanC9]

metatheurgist wrote...
The distances are quite large in Ferelden, it's not apparent in the game but it does take days to travel from one location to another. Part of the reason most players most don't realise this is probably because there are no "mundane" concerns like the need to keep hydrated and fed.

I didn't say travel didn't take days, I said rations wouldn't be a concern. Most marching paths are through the Bannorn. You're simply not going to be very far from some sort of settlement there. What I meant by "different game" was that you'd have to redraw the map of Ferelden. As the map stands there just isn't any place where a party should have to be concerned about rations.

There's been mention about how food is only done in PnP games but in my experience it's impossible to convince players it's worthwhile to track their rations. Most RPGs don't have hard rules for diet. The GM ends up having to track food for the players and come up with penalties to impose. It ends up being more work for the GM which is not done. It'd actually be more feasible to get a computer game to do this stuff well.

Indeed. I never saw a reason to do it as player or GM, except in special circumstances. I still don't.

[Ken555]

True but as in you can drink in the Tapsters Tavern, and maybe instead of helath poultices you could mix a mixture of the pring water and such so that we can regain helath from eating food instead of just health poultices.

[Ken555]

MistySun wrote...

A lot is missing which should be included...seats (or tree stumps) to sit on, sleep (like in The Witcher) , food, water, fruit (apples oranges etc) day/night cycles, weather, and swimming...lol i saw a lovely piece of water at the Dalish camp...it looked so inviting to jump in and have a swim

I agree perfect place for a dip.

[MonkeyKaboom]

metatheurgist wrote...

Havokk7 wrote...
Besides, eating is mundane boring stuff. I don't want to do mundane boring stuff in a game. It's a game, not a simulation. If a game has eating and drinking, what is next? Showering? Laundry? How about a darning socks or mending armour minigame? A personal hygiene quest (including nail-trimming and hair-cutting)?

Aren't most games sims? CRPGs are mostly a combat sim. I like CRPGs because the combat is mostly about thinking about the makeup of my group and what tactics and strategies to employ. FPSer's think that's mundane and boring because they don't get to demonstrate their l33t hand-eye co-ordination skills and those are the only thing that's real while thinking is for lamers (generalisation intended to make a point and not to offend).

The trick is to make it interesting. I like the idea that I might have to think about more than gold when I head out into the wilderness. I think it'd be more interesting if Survival was actually about being able to live in the wild rather than being +x% Nature immune. It'd give the ranger/woodsman more traction than just being a DW DPS'er and justify bringing the guy along in the wild rather than in the city.

Of course not everyone may find that as compelling as I do. Especially if they're a casual gamer.

You're an idiot if you think the only thing in a FPS is hand/eye coordination.  Here's a little hint, playing against another human being that can understand strategy and select proper team setup and equipment and make use of the environment is infinitely more difficult than a half brain preset AI...

You're generalisation isn't even correct from the onset.

[jfri]

Ken555 wrote...

I wish Dragon Age had food and water, because personally I think Dragon Age is really realistic, as you can't eat food or drink water.

I think it was a good choice to leave out this. Not realistic? Well here are som unrealistic features in DA that I rather would have seen addressed (maybe in DA 2 ?)
1) Stealing doesn't seem to bother anyone. You can go anywhere and open chests and taking everything
2) You can make potions and a lot of other things in the middle of combat
3) Combat sometimes seems very unrealistic