290 réponses à ce sujet

[Arhka]

I'm expecting the Geth decision to bite me in the ass. Even as Paragon, I blew em up.

[Relshar]

XX55XX wrote...

But, the Quarians do deserve to know what happened on the Alarei.

sometimes its best to let people think they know the truth,rather than have them know the truth.

I didn't hand over the evidence and defended Tali's honor.

[CmdrFenix83]

MrBeardface wrote...

SovereignT wrote...

Does seem amiss that turning in evidence in this case has no benefit and is strictly a lose-lose situation.

There should had been some plus, maybe some tech that you get..

 It may be lose-lose in ME2, but I think it may be very much win-win in ME3.

If you use ME2's handling of ME1 choices, then there most certainly be no good that comes from handing in the evidence.  Not a single renegade choice made the galaxy better.  Not.  One.  Assuming that splintering the Quarian fleet at a time when some want war and others don't, with the Reapers on the horizon would result in anything other than the total annihilation of the Quarian people, is wishful thinking.  You can make a case that your Shepard might think otherwise, but nothing positive has come from *any* renegade choice.

[The Governator]

The Angry One wrote...

Taliban reference? Er..... yes. Sure why not.

As for how a paragon would do it, surely a paragon would have a duty to tell the truth. Rael was a war criminal and an incompetent bufoon who put the fleet in danger.

Umm...What?

That begs the question of Geth sapience which has not been proven satisfactorily.  They have no emotions, they have no individual identity...they are not alive.  The only criminality possible is his incompetence. 

[CmdrFenix83]

inversevideo wrote...

Don't get involved in a land war in asia.
Or in Quarian politics, as a non Quarian, could not hope to understand the complexity in less than the day or so you spend with the fleet.

The way I see it, you are there for Tali, period.
If you are not there for Tali, why did you divert time (and fuel) to get to the fleet?

If Tali does not want her father to be reviled as a monster, in Quarian history, then you should abide by her wishes. If you talk, to all the judges, before you leave for the Alarai, then you will have at least 3 possible choices, to help get Tali cleared, Para or Rene convo, or stir up the Conclave, in Tali's favor.

This.  You're there representing Tali.  Doing anything beyond what she wishes within the confiines of *her* trial is a betrayal of the one you're defending.

[CmdrFenix83]

Computron2000 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

MrBeardface wrote...
 Has Bioware messed with our minds? Is the bad option the right option?

Rather than this particular choice, i'm thinking its more likely Mordin's mission will bite paragons in the ass

We need that a little too don't we?  I mean just because a character is Paragon doesn't mean he/she is flawless concerning decisons and their ramifications right?

I'm expecting it actually. Which one will be the one that does that is up for debate but ME seems to me to be more supportive of non-pure paragons or renegades.

Not a single paragon decision has resulted in negative consequences.  Not one.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I don't know about ME 2 but one Paragon decision causes a Salarian to attack you on Virmire

[CmdrFenix83]

The Governator wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Taliban reference? Er..... yes. Sure why not.

As for how a paragon would do it, surely a paragon would have a duty to tell the truth. Rael was a war criminal and an incompetent bufoon who put the fleet in danger.

Umm...What?

That begs the question of Geth sapience which has not been proven satisfactorily.  They have no emotions, they have no individual identity...they are not alive.  The only criminality possible is his incompetence. 

His crime was activating the Geth on the Alarei, nothing else.  He paid for the crime with his life.

[CmdrFenix83]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I don't know about ME 2 but one Paragon decision causes a Salarian to attack you on Virmire

He shoots you in your shield, you turn and kill him.  Has zero impact on the overall Galaxy.

[CmdrFenix83]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Not a single paragon decision has resulted in negative consequences.  Not one.

Yes, but would you like to see that?

My main Shepard is paragade, is something along the lines of 100% para, 30-40% rene.  I killed the Rachni Queen, sacrificed the Council for Sovereign, erased genophage data, etc.  It was rather appauling how dramatically better the galaxy was in ME2 on one of my pure paragon characters.  So yes, I would love to see the idealist Shepards have *something* come back to bite them in the ass.

Modifié par CmdrFenix83, 11 mars 2010 - 05:40 .

[MrBeardface]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

MrBeardface wrote...

SovereignT wrote...

Does seem amiss that turning in evidence in this case has no benefit and is strictly a lose-lose situation.

There should had been some plus, maybe some tech that you get..

 It may be lose-lose in ME2, but I think it may be very much win-win in ME3.

If you use ME2's handling of ME1 choices, then there most certainly be no good that comes from handing in the evidence.  Not a single renegade choice made the galaxy better.  Not.  One.  Assuming that splintering the Quarian fleet at a time when some want war and others don't, with the Reapers on the horizon would result in anything other than the total annihilation of the Quarian people, is wishful thinking.  You can make a case that your Shepard might think otherwise, but nothing positive has come from *any* renegade choice.

Look at it this way. The Fleet will stay together, they have to for survival. As for internal dissent? It makes sure they cannot go to war against the Geth. Even with the whole Flotilla at their backs it'd be a bastard of a fight, with half it's downright impossible.

 When the Reapers come the Quarians will stand together, whatever internal difficulties they may have. It's that or extinction after all.

[Schroing]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

MrBeardface wrote...
 Has Bioware messed with our minds? Is the bad option the right option?

Rather than this particular choice, i'm thinking its more likely Mordin's mission will bite paragons in the ass

We need that a little too don't we?  I mean just because a character is Paragon doesn't mean he/she is flawless concerning decisons and their ramifications right?

I'm expecting it actually. Which one will be the one that does that is up for debate but ME seems to me to be more supportive of non-pure paragons or renegades.

Not a single paragon decision has resulted in negative consequences.  Not one.

...I'm pretty sure no Renegade choices have resulted in negative consequences, either. Unless you count not getting your spectre-status back, for all the good that did. What -will- happen is another matter, but that's kind of impossible to know right now unless you're developing the game...

[CmdrFenix83]

MrBeardface wrote...

Look at it this way. The Fleet will stay together, they have to for survival. As for internal dissent? It makes sure they cannot go to war against the Geth. Even with the whole Flotilla at their backs it'd be a bastard of a fight, with half it's downright impossible.

 When the Reapers come the Quarians will stand together, whatever internal difficulties they may have. It's that or extinction after all.

Supposition.  Assumes human response.  Impossible to predict.  BioWare's track record with the Renegade systesm shows likelyhood of Quarian extinction.  Must work within confines of available data.

[Zulu_DFA]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Not a single paragon decision has resulted in negative consequences.  Not one.

Yes, but would you like to see that?

My main Shepard is paragade, is something along the lines of 100% para, 30-40% rene.  I killed the Rachni Queen, sacrificed the Council for Sovereign, erased genophage data, etc.  It was rather appauling how dramatically better the galaxy was in ME2 on one of my pure paragon characters.  So yes, I would love to see the idealist Shepards have *something* come back to bite them in the ass.

Hey, *my* renegade Shepard IS an idealist and thinks that the Galaxy is a BETTER place WITHOUT such things as Rachni, genophage cure, and moron Turian Councillor.

The only objective measure of "better/worse" is probability of destroying the Reapers. If the choices don't actually contribute to it, they are just a matter of taste. If they do contribute, then we'll need to wait until the Grand Final Battle of ME3, to tell which choices were good, and which were bad.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 11 mars 2010 - 06:01 .

[CmdrFenix83]

Schroing wrote...

...I'm pretty sure no Renegade choices have resulted in negative consequences, either. Unless you count not getting your spectre-status back, for all the good that did. What -will- happen is another matter, but that's kind of impossible to know right now unless you're developing the game...

You're kidding, right?  Dead Council - Humanity is adamantly hated by the galaxy.  Bailey even recommends not going anywhere alone to prevent being jumped.  Wrex dead - Krogan aren't united, no intelligent rule, just continued civil war of stupidity.  Wiping out Zhu's Hope - essentially destroyed the colony.  Killing Helena Blake - she's not around acting as a social worker to help people on Omega.  Sacrificing hostages on Terra Nova - Memorial service held to mourn their deaths instead of ceremony to celebrate Shepard's actions saving the colony.  This one is the most surprising, seeing as you let the terrorist go for this, and yet he's done nothing in the two years since, he's just 'at large'.

These are simply things that have transferred to ME2.  If you don't see any of that as negative...

[CmdrFenix83]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Hey, *my* renegade Shepard IS an idealist and thinks that the Galaxy is a BETTER place WITHOUT such things as Rachni, genophage cure, and moron Turian Councillor.

The only objective measure of "better/worse" is probability of destroying the Reapers. If the choices don't actually contribute to it, they are just a matter of taste. If they do contribute, then we'll need to wait until the Grand Final Battle of ME3, to tell which choices were good, and which were bad.

You've stated that you're happy with TIM taking over the galaxy post-Reaper threat.  That's better for whom?  It's not the galaxy.

[Schroing]

You're kidding, right?  Dead Council - Humanity is adamantly hated by the galaxy.

And they control it. Renegades don't give a **** what the rest of the galaxy think about them.

Bailey even recommends not going anywhere alone to prevent being jumped.

Renegades don't give a **** about that, either. People too weak to defend themselves should die, survival of the fittest, etc. Every weak human that dies strengthens the race as a whole, increasing their chances against the Reapers.

Wrex dead - Krogan aren't united, no intelligent rule, just continued civil war of stupidity.

Wrex dying isn't a renegade option. With a high enough intimidate skill, you talk him down.

Wiping out Zhu's Hope - essentially destroyed the colony.

Not a negative. Renegades, again, don't care.

Killing Helena Blake - she's not around acting as a social worker to help people on Omega.

Again, no care-o.

Sacrificing hostages on Terra Nova - Memorial service held to mourn their deaths instead of ceremony to celebrate Shepard's actions saving the colony.  This one is the most surprising, seeing as you let the terrorist go for this, and yet he's done nothing in the two years since, he's just 'at large'.

See above.

These are simply things that have transferred to ME2.  If you don't see any of that as negative...

To a Renegade, they're not. It's as simple as that.

[Zulu_DFA]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Hey, *my* renegade Shepard IS an idealist and thinks that the Galaxy is a BETTER place WITHOUT such things as Rachni, genophage cure, and moron Turian Councillor.

The only objective measure of "better/worse" is probability of destroying the Reapers. If the choices don't actually contribute to it, they are just a matter of taste. If they do contribute, then we'll need to wait until the Grand Final Battle of ME3, to tell which choices were good, and which were bad.

You've stated that you're happy with TIM taking over the galaxy post-Reaper threat.  That's better for whom?  It's not the galaxy.

It's for the Galaxy's good!

[DuffyMJ]

The Angry One wrote...

Taliban reference? Er..... yes. Sure why not.

As for how a paragon would do it, surely a paragon would have a duty to tell the truth. Rael was a war criminal and an incompetent bufoon who put the fleet in danger.

You aren't lying by choosing the blue option.  Your argument very clearly states that "all the evidence that is needed" is Tali's storied history and accomplishments.  Which in fact is the truth. 

[DrunkenGoon]

tehprincessJ wrote...

Doesn't Admiral Xen find out everything regardless? So it doesn't matter. I'd chose your actions based on Tali, nothing more.

No.. There is a difference between the info her father was working on and the information you find regarding the work he has.. The info she doesn't want you to reveal is the video stream of him talking to the other crew members.. Earlier on you find the actual work that was going on.. Admiral Xen finds the information that was on board the ship..

[Zulu_DFA]

DuffyMJ wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Taliban reference? Er..... yes. Sure why not.

As for how a paragon would do it, surely a paragon would have a duty to tell the truth. Rael was a war criminal and an incompetent bufoon who put the fleet in danger.

You aren't lying by choosing the blue option.  Your argument very clearly states that "all the evidence that is needed" is Tali's storied history and accomplishments.  Which in fact is the truth. 

Except it is not "the truth", but a matter of opinion. And therefore a figure of speech.

[Schroing]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Taliban reference? Er..... yes. Sure why not.

As for how a paragon would do it, surely a paragon would have a duty to tell the truth. Rael was a war criminal and an incompetent bufoon who put the fleet in danger.

You aren't lying by choosing the blue option.  Your argument very clearly states that "all the evidence that is needed" is Tali's storied history and accomplishments.  Which in fact is the truth. 

Except it is not "the truth", but a matter of opinion. And therefore a figure of speech.

It's also not a lie, so his point stands.

[CmdrFenix83]

Schroing wrote...

And they control it. Renegades don't give a **** what the rest of the galaxy think about them.

Which is irrelevant.  It's worse for the galaxy as a whole.  You're distrusted, and looked at as conquerors.  By negative consequences, I mean what's worse for the galaxy as a whole.  But, whatever you want, Darth.

Renegades don't give a **** about that, either. People too weak to defend themselves should die, survival of the fittest, etc. Every weak human that dies strengthens the race as a whole, increasing their chances against the Reapers.

You sure you're not a Krogan?  Please don't breed.

Wrex dying isn't a renegade option. With a high enough intimidate skill, you talk him down.

But shooting him yourself is a renegade action.  I suppose you could make a case that not using Charm requires Ashley kills him, but if you've done Wrex's sidequest, there is no Charm/Intim option, you just simply can choose to shoot him(renegade points).

Not a negative. Renegades, again, don't care.

So why are you stopping the Reapers, then?  You clearly don't care if people are wiped out colonies at a time.  Oh, because *you* want to survive.  It doesn't matter if you care or not, you're still degrading the galaxy as a whole with your actions. 

Again, no care-o.

And again, the galaxy is slightly worse in the long run.  You're working hard to make the place a ****hole.

To a Renegade, they're not. It's as simple as that.

I'm not talking about Renegade/Paragon.  I'm talking about the state of the galaxy as a whole.  You know, the job you were given in ME1?  A Spectre, protect galactic stability?  The Council's first and last line of defense?  Do you remember any of that?  To be honest, a pure Renegade character should be executed as a War Criminal and a traitor after stopping the Reapers.  There are several Renegade options that make sense, tactically and logically, but many of them are you just trying to screw the galaxy up as a whole.