290 réponses à ce sujet

[CmdrFenix83]

Schroing wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Schroing wrote...

It was obviously self-defense.

Again, why would they believe a word you said?  You just murdered an entire colony of civilians as a highly trained marine. 

The Thorian is still there, all dead and stuff, and you have the entire ExoGeni corp backing you up.

Ok, there's a dead Thorian.  You've slaughtered an entire colony.  The what... 2 Exogeni employees still alive? (with only Elizabeth having any knowledge of this creature) They can back up the fact that there was a creature with mind control capabilities in the colony.  With the VI data, you can prove this and justify your defense.  Now, if Saren hasn't won already(race against time, remember) by the time you've adequately defended yourself for murdering ~15 people, then you can try to make your case about Saren. 

They still have no reason to believe Shiala.  She sounds as insane as Shepard does with his 'visions'.  She's a self-proclaimed traitor, claiming wild stories about a ship with mind control abilities of its' own while attempting to denounce two respected and admired individuals. 

[Zulu_DFA]

Schroing wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

here's a lot less variation in morality than you presume, the overwhelming social consensus favors the paragon utopia as desirable (thinking end screen shot in the first game) as opposed to the renegade utopia (a plant being annihilated in the end screen shot of the first game...) 

Your idea of relative morality is basically excuse-making for sociopaths and outliers who pollute societies.  You're unfairly representing the situation as if exactly as many people are "for" renegade as are "for" paragon, when the truth is that those who are "for" renegade reality are a small minority and are therefore outside the consensus.

Bull****. "Social consensus" has absolutely nothing to do with this and you're an idiot if you think it does.

But it does! Didn't you know that there is an Official Certified Mantra of Moral Perfection and Goodness? It goes:

"Cerberus cannot be trusted. Renegades are bad. Human-centric humans are douchebags."

Repeat this 28384 times, and you'll achieve the state of ultimate paragonship (aka "grace") and will be allowed to join the consensus of equally perfect individuals.

[DuffyMJ]

Schroing wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

here's a lot less variation in morality than you presume, the overwhelming social consensus favors the paragon utopia as desirable (thinking end screen shot in the first game) as opposed to the renegade utopia (a plant being annihilated in the end screen shot of the first game...) 

Your idea of relative morality is basically excuse-making for sociopaths and outliers who pollute societies.  You're unfairly representing the situation as if exactly as many people are "for" renegade as are "for" paragon, when the truth is that those who are "for" renegade reality are a small minority and are therefore outside the consensus.

Bull****. "Social consensus" has absolutely nothing to do with this and you're an idiot if you think it does.

aaaannndd right on que here comes the argument ad hominem... 

[Schroing]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Schroing wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Schroing wrote...

It was obviously self-defense.

Again, why would they believe a word you said?  You just murdered an entire colony of civilians as a highly trained marine. 

The Thorian is still there, all dead and stuff, and you have the entire ExoGeni corp backing you up.

Ok, there's a dead Thorian.  You've slaughtered an entire colony.  The what... 2 Exogeni employees still alive? (with only Elizabeth having any knowledge of this creature) They can back up the fact that there was a creature with mind control capabilities in the colony.  With the VI data, you can prove this and justify your defense.  Now, if Saren hasn't won already(race against time, remember) by the time you've adequately defended yourself for murdering ~15 people, then you can try to make your case about Saren. 

They still have no reason to believe Shiala.  She sounds as insane as Shepard does with his 'visions'.  She's a self-proclaimed traitor, claiming wild stories about a ship with mind control abilities of its' own while attempting to denounce two respected and admired individuals. 

All of the ExoGeni employees who were bunkered down in that little place survive and repopulate the colony.
You don't need to defend yourself with that many people; and, for that matter, with the off-planet legal crew of ExoGeni, you'd need to be represented even less.
And you're pretty much assuming that the Council's opinion matters. From what we've seen, they're incredibly incompetent; the only time you need them on your side, or anyone other than the Normandy crew, is when they're going to be on your side no matter what.

[DuffyMJ]

Schroing wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Relative to what the galaxy was before Shepard got involved.

You can't factually state that the renegade options, assuming that they wouldn't prevent you from defeating the Reapers (which I think is a fair assumption, here) would be any better for "the galaxy" than the paragon options. You just can't.

If your idea of Utopia is to be Darth Douchebag under Emperor Illusive Man, then sure, you can have your "Utopia".

It's not mine; it's Renegade Shepard's.

Utopia by it's very nature (and original authorship by Sir Thomas Moore) is a societal ideal, not an individual one.  There is no such thing as "my utopia" Utopia belongs to the world. 

[Schroing]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Schroing wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

here's a lot less variation in morality than you presume, the overwhelming social consensus favors the paragon utopia as desirable (thinking end screen shot in the first game) as opposed to the renegade utopia (a plant being annihilated in the end screen shot of the first game...) 

Your idea of relative morality is basically excuse-making for sociopaths and outliers who pollute societies.  You're unfairly representing the situation as if exactly as many people are "for" renegade as are "for" paragon, when the truth is that those who are "for" renegade reality are a small minority and are therefore outside the consensus.

Bull****. "Social consensus" has absolutely nothing to do with this and you're an idiot if you think it does.

aaaannndd right on que here comes the argument ad hominem... 

Right after the argumentum ad populum.

[DuffyMJ]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wrong. Without her, Shepard would have been sent to Feros without Spectre status, dealt with the Thorian, captured Shiala and had her testify before the Council. OR any other way to expose Saren. Tali's evidence is petty. Plot device.

Shepard gets to Noveria.  They take his weapons.  He dies to Geth in the garage.  Oops. 

The Council already dismissed witness testimony.

I said Feros.

The Council dismissed 1 witness testimony. 2 independent witnesses make the case. Besides Shiala could testfy directly brain-to-brain with the Asari Councillor. (If *my* Shepard needed her for that, it would save her life.)

Except your Renegade Shepard just murdered an entire colony.  Why would they believe a word you said?  You'd most likely be arrested the second you got to the Citadel.

*My* renegade Shepard saved the colony.

Zulu, your whole argument hinges on hypothetical assumptions that you would be able to travel to the colony, keep Shiala alive, bring her before an inquiry against her will, etc... and you're calling Tali's evidence a petty plot device? please.  Nothing is more petty than hypothetical "what if's". 

Look, it's just happened so, that it was Tali's evidence, that helped to expose Saren. But Saren needed to be exposed, and he was going to this way or another. It's not like he covered up all tracks. Claiming that Tali's evidence was the single and only possible way in the Galaxy to do that is much pettier than "hypothetical "what if's"".

Saren covered himself well enough so that Garrus' investigation found nothing.

Temporally speaking, no, it is not petty at all.  You seem to forget that the fight for the conduit was a "race against time".  

[Schroing]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Schroing wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Relative to what the galaxy was before Shepard got involved.

You can't factually state that the renegade options, assuming that they wouldn't prevent you from defeating the Reapers (which I think is a fair assumption, here) would be any better for "the galaxy" than the paragon options. You just can't.

If your idea of Utopia is to be Darth Douchebag under Emperor Illusive Man, then sure, you can have your "Utopia".

It's not mine; it's Renegade Shepard's.

Utopia by it's very nature (and original authorship by Sir Thomas Moore) is a societal ideal, not an individual one.  There is no such thing as "my utopia" Utopia belongs to the world. 

In practical usage, that's false. And if we're going to be talking about utopia at all, we're going to have to use a practical definition.

[Schroing]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wrong. Without her, Shepard would have been sent to Feros without Spectre status, dealt with the Thorian, captured Shiala and had her testify before the Council. OR any other way to expose Saren. Tali's evidence is petty. Plot device.

Shepard gets to Noveria.  They take his weapons.  He dies to Geth in the garage.  Oops. 

The Council already dismissed witness testimony.

I said Feros.

The Council dismissed 1 witness testimony. 2 independent witnesses make the case. Besides Shiala could testfy directly brain-to-brain with the Asari Councillor. (If *my* Shepard needed her for that, it would save her life.)

Except your Renegade Shepard just murdered an entire colony.  Why would they believe a word you said?  You'd most likely be arrested the second you got to the Citadel.

*My* renegade Shepard saved the colony.

Zulu, your whole argument hinges on hypothetical assumptions that you would be able to travel to the colony, keep Shiala alive, bring her before an inquiry against her will, etc... and you're calling Tali's evidence a petty plot device? please.  Nothing is more petty than hypothetical "what if's". 

Look, it's just happened so, that it was Tali's evidence, that helped to expose Saren. But Saren needed to be exposed, and he was going to this way or another. It's not like he covered up all tracks. Claiming that Tali's evidence was the single and only possible way in the Galaxy to do that is much pettier than "hypothetical "what if's"".

Saren covered himself well enough so that Garrus' investigation found nothing.

Temporally speaking, no, it is not petty at all.  You seem to forget that the fight for the conduit was a "race against time".  

And every second wasted reasoning with the council in an attempt to get some pointless title was a second you could've spent going after Saren, during which any number of hypotheticals might've happened.

[CmdrFenix83]

Schroing wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Relative to what the galaxy was before Shepard got involved.

You can't factually state that the renegade options, assuming that they wouldn't prevent you from defeating the Reapers (which I think is a fair assumption, here) would be any better for "the galaxy" than the paragon options. You just can't.

If your idea of Utopia is to be Darth Douchebag under Emperor Illusive Man, then sure, you can have your "Utopia".

It's not mine; it's Renegade Shepard's.

It's still not better for the galaxy as a whole, regardless of what Douchebag Shepard thinks.  Commiting mass genocide of multiple species, keeping an organic liquifying base and handing it to terrorists, etc is just not in the Galaxy's best interest.  It's almost as absurd as making the assertion that the Reapers need to win 'in the galaxy's best interest'.  All Renegade Shepard is doing is causing civil unrest, military buildups, and splintering of trusts within the galaxy.  They're going to be at each other's throats when the Reapers come a callin'.  All of this, is just setting things up for humanity to take over the galaxy as a whole.  Sounds pretty close to Palpatine's plans.

Your version of 'renegade' Shepard is just a powermonger, manipulating the galaxy to end up with himself in a seat of ultimate power.

[DuffyMJ]

Schroing wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Schroing wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

here's a lot less variation in morality than you presume, the overwhelming social consensus favors the paragon utopia as desirable (thinking end screen shot in the first game) as opposed to the renegade utopia (a plant being annihilated in the end screen shot of the first game...) 

Your idea of relative morality is basically excuse-making for sociopaths and outliers who pollute societies.  You're unfairly representing the situation as if exactly as many people are "for" renegade as are "for" paragon, when the truth is that those who are "for" renegade reality are a small minority and are therefore outside the consensus.

Bull****. "Social consensus" has absolutely nothing to do with this and you're an idiot if you think it does.

aaaannndd right on que here comes the argument ad hominem... 

Right after the argumentum ad populum.

I think you take those "army of one" ads a little too seriously...

[Zulu_DFA]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wrong. Without her, Shepard would have been sent to Feros without Spectre status, dealt with the Thorian, captured Shiala and had her testify before the Council. OR any other way to expose Saren. Tali's evidence is petty. Plot device.

Shepard gets to Noveria.  They take his weapons.  He dies to Geth in the garage.  Oops. 

The Council already dismissed witness testimony.

I said Feros.

The Council dismissed 1 witness testimony. 2 independent witnesses make the case. Besides Shiala could testfy directly brain-to-brain with the Asari Councillor. (If *my* Shepard needed her for that, it would save her life.)

Except your Renegade Shepard just murdered an entire colony.  Why would they believe a word you said?  You'd most likely be arrested the second you got to the Citadel.

*My* renegade Shepard saved the colony.

Zulu, your whole argument hinges on hypothetical assumptions that you would be able to travel to the colony, keep Shiala alive, bring her before an inquiry against her will, etc... and you're calling Tali's evidence a petty plot device? please.  Nothing is more petty than hypothetical "what if's". 

Look, it's just happened so, that it was Tali's evidence, that helped to expose Saren. But Saren needed to be exposed, and he was going to this way or another. It's not like he covered up all tracks. Claiming that Tali's evidence was the single and only possible way in the Galaxy to do that is much pettier than "hypothetical "what if's"".

Saren covered himself well enough so that Garrus' investigation found nothing.

Temporally speaking, no, it is not petty at all.  You seem to forget that the fight for the conduit was a "race against time".  

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where you could go to a dozen of uncharted worlds after hi-jacking the Normandy and still be in time to play tags with Saren on Ilos.

[Schroing]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Schroing wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Schroing wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

here's a lot less variation in morality than you presume, the overwhelming social consensus favors the paragon utopia as desirable (thinking end screen shot in the first game) as opposed to the renegade utopia (a plant being annihilated in the end screen shot of the first game...) 

Your idea of relative morality is basically excuse-making for sociopaths and outliers who pollute societies.  You're unfairly representing the situation as if exactly as many people are "for" renegade as are "for" paragon, when the truth is that those who are "for" renegade reality are a small minority and are therefore outside the consensus.

Bull****. "Social consensus" has absolutely nothing to do with this and you're an idiot if you think it does.

aaaannndd right on que here comes the argument ad hominem... 

Right after the argumentum ad populum.

I think you take those "army of one" ads a little too seriously...

And I think you're a dirty sheep/on-the-bandwagon-guy/conformist/communist.

[DuffyMJ]

Schroing wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wrong. Without her, Shepard would have been sent to Feros without Spectre status, dealt with the Thorian, captured Shiala and had her testify before the Council. OR any other way to expose Saren. Tali's evidence is petty. Plot device.

Shepard gets to Noveria.  They take his weapons.  He dies to Geth in the garage.  Oops. 

The Council already dismissed witness testimony.

I said Feros.

The Council dismissed 1 witness testimony. 2 independent witnesses make the case. Besides Shiala could testfy directly brain-to-brain with the Asari Councillor. (If *my* Shepard needed her for that, it would save her life.)

Except your Renegade Shepard just murdered an entire colony.  Why would they believe a word you said?  You'd most likely be arrested the second you got to the Citadel.

*My* renegade Shepard saved the colony.

Zulu, your whole argument hinges on hypothetical assumptions that you would be able to travel to the colony, keep Shiala alive, bring her before an inquiry against her will, etc... and you're calling Tali's evidence a petty plot device? please.  Nothing is more petty than hypothetical "what if's". 

Look, it's just happened so, that it was Tali's evidence, that helped to expose Saren. But Saren needed to be exposed, and he was going to this way or another. It's not like he covered up all tracks. Claiming that Tali's evidence was the single and only possible way in the Galaxy to do that is much pettier than "hypothetical "what if's"".

Saren covered himself well enough so that Garrus' investigation found nothing.

Temporally speaking, no, it is not petty at all.  You seem to forget that the fight for the conduit was a "race against time".  

And every second wasted reasoning with the council in an attempt to get some pointless title was a second you could've spent going after Saren, during which any number of hypotheticals might've happened.

There's nothing pointless about the title, it is a legal justification to cut through red tape, a siginifant morale boost for billions of humans (thus leading to increased alliance recruitment numbers, motivation to join all organics as a united front during the Reaper war, etc.), and acknowledgment of the legitimacy of Shepard's personal endeavors during his recruitment of peers and conduction of his field operations.

[DuffyMJ]

Schroing wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Schroing wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Schroing wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

here's a lot less variation in morality than you presume, the overwhelming social consensus favors the paragon utopia as desirable (thinking end screen shot in the first game) as opposed to the renegade utopia (a plant being annihilated in the end screen shot of the first game...) 

Your idea of relative morality is basically excuse-making for sociopaths and outliers who pollute societies.  You're unfairly representing the situation as if exactly as many people are "for" renegade as are "for" paragon, when the truth is that those who are "for" renegade reality are a small minority and are therefore outside the consensus.

Bull****. "Social consensus" has absolutely nothing to do with this and you're an idiot if you think it does.

aaaannndd right on que here comes the argument ad hominem... 

Right after the argumentum ad populum.

I think you take those "army of one" ads a little too seriously...

And I think you're a dirty sheep/on-the-bandwagon-guy/conformist/communist.

I'm American, I am master of my own destiny.

What you call conformity, communist (oh boy...)  I call harmony, synergy, justice, equality, fairness, rationality, and secular moral principle. 

[Schroing]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

It's still not better for the galaxy as a whole, regardless of what Douchebag Shepard thinks.  Commiting mass genocide of multiple species, keeping an organic liquifying base and handing it to terrorists, etc is just not in the Galaxy's best interest.  It's almost as absurd as making the assertion that the Reapers need to win 'in the galaxy's best interest'.  All Renegade Shepard is doing is causing civil unrest, military buildups, and splintering of trusts within the galaxy.  They're going to be at each other's throats when the Reapers come a callin'.  All of this, is just setting things up for humanity to take over the galaxy as a whole.  Sounds pretty close to Palpatine's plans.

Your version of 'renegade' Shepard is just a powermonger, manipulating the galaxy to end up with himself in a seat of ultimate power.

No, no. He's building a seat for humanity, not himself.
He's more like the Agent in Serenity, before Mal pwns him, than Palpatine.

And please; we can't say that the renegade options in ME2 are going to cause anything. ME3 hasn't happened yet, neither of us are developers. Stay away from that train of thought.

[Schroing]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Schroing wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wrong. Without her, Shepard would have been sent to Feros without Spectre status, dealt with the Thorian, captured Shiala and had her testify before the Council. OR any other way to expose Saren. Tali's evidence is petty. Plot device.

Shepard gets to Noveria.  They take his weapons.  He dies to Geth in the garage.  Oops. 

The Council already dismissed witness testimony.

I said Feros.

The Council dismissed 1 witness testimony. 2 independent witnesses make the case. Besides Shiala could testfy directly brain-to-brain with the Asari Councillor. (If *my* Shepard needed her for that, it would save her life.)

Except your Renegade Shepard just murdered an entire colony.  Why would they believe a word you said?  You'd most likely be arrested the second you got to the Citadel.

*My* renegade Shepard saved the colony.

Zulu, your whole argument hinges on hypothetical assumptions that you would be able to travel to the colony, keep Shiala alive, bring her before an inquiry against her will, etc... and you're calling Tali's evidence a petty plot device? please.  Nothing is more petty than hypothetical "what if's". 

Look, it's just happened so, that it was Tali's evidence, that helped to expose Saren. But Saren needed to be exposed, and he was going to this way or another. It's not like he covered up all tracks. Claiming that Tali's evidence was the single and only possible way in the Galaxy to do that is much pettier than "hypothetical "what if's"".

Saren covered himself well enough so that Garrus' investigation found nothing.

Temporally speaking, no, it is not petty at all.  You seem to forget that the fight for the conduit was a "race against time".  

And every second wasted reasoning with the council in an attempt to get some pointless title was a second you could've spent going after Saren, during which any number of hypotheticals might've happened.

There's nothing pointless about the title, it is a legal justification to cut through red tape, a siginifant morale boost for billions of humans (thus leading to increased alliance recruitment numbers, motivation to join all organics as a united front during the Reaper war, etc.), and acknowledgment of the legitimacy of Shepard's personal endeavors during his recruitment of peers and conduction of his field operations.

None of which are important. What's important is stopping Saren, and wasting your time becoming a Spectre can't be said to be the best possible option.

[CmdrFenix83]

Schroing wrote...

All of the ExoGeni employees who were bunkered down in that little place survive and repopulate the colony.
You don't need to defend yourself with that many people; and, for that matter, with the off-planet legal crew of ExoGeni, you'd need to be represented even less.
And you're pretty much assuming that the Council's opinion matters. From what we've seen, they're incredibly incompetent; the only time you need them on your side, or anyone other than the Normandy crew, is when they're going to be on your side no matter what.

How many of those employees knew of the Thorian?  Jeong and Elizabeth.  Without 100% of a charm/intim score, you have to shoot him in the head.  That leaves 1 individual and the VI.  You're also leaking ExoGeni's dirty little secrets, they're most certainly *not* going to defend you.  If anything, they'd try to silence you and work to point all the evidence towards you being a murderor. 

And you're assuming the Council is impotent.  They don't believe insane assertions.  Shepard has provided a grand total of 1 piece of evidence to the Council, and that's Tali's recording.  As they've said, they represent trillions of lives, and cannot take *anything* on faith, even a Spectre.  You have no proof of anything.  Just testimony of two individuals, one 'traumatized dock worker' and one Asari that was engulphed in a giant plant and came out spewing stories about mind controlling ships.

[Schroing]

DuffyMJ wrote...

I'm American, I am master of my own destiny.

Clearly you're not, since your opinion/judgements/actions and thus your destiny are just the opinions/judgements/actions of others.
It's a logical fallacy for a goddamned reason. I just can't take you seriously.

[DuffyMJ]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wrong. Without her, Shepard would have been sent to Feros without Spectre status, dealt with the Thorian, captured Shiala and had her testify before the Council. OR any other way to expose Saren. Tali's evidence is petty. Plot device.

Shepard gets to Noveria.  They take his weapons.  He dies to Geth in the garage.  Oops. 

The Council already dismissed witness testimony.

I said Feros.

The Council dismissed 1 witness testimony. 2 independent witnesses make the case. Besides Shiala could testfy directly brain-to-brain with the Asari Councillor. (If *my* Shepard needed her for that, it would save her life.)

Except your Renegade Shepard just murdered an entire colony.  Why would they believe a word you said?  You'd most likely be arrested the second you got to the Citadel.

*My* renegade Shepard saved the colony.

Zulu, your whole argument hinges on hypothetical assumptions that you would be able to travel to the colony, keep Shiala alive, bring her before an inquiry against her will, etc... and you're calling Tali's evidence a petty plot device? please.  Nothing is more petty than hypothetical "what if's". 

Look, it's just happened so, that it was Tali's evidence, that helped to expose Saren. But Saren needed to be exposed, and he was going to this way or another. It's not like he covered up all tracks. Claiming that Tali's evidence was the single and only possible way in the Galaxy to do that is much pettier than "hypothetical "what if's"".

Saren covered himself well enough so that Garrus' investigation found nothing.

Temporally speaking, no, it is not petty at all.  You seem to forget that the fight for the conduit was a "race against time".  

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where you could go to a dozen of uncharted worlds after hi-jacking the Normandy and still be in time to play tags with Saren on Ilos.

Gameplay mechanics are absolutely irrelevant to this discussion, otherwise you'd be laughably wrong just by merits of the fact that Tali AI hacked, overloaded, sabotaged, droned, energy drained, and shotgun-blasted her way through entire legions of Geth, Mercs, Husks and, possibly depending on what order you played your ME2 missions, Collectors and Reaper-occupied collector bodies.

[Schroing]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Schroing wrote...

All of the ExoGeni employees who were bunkered down in that little place survive and repopulate the colony.
You don't need to defend yourself with that many people; and, for that matter, with the off-planet legal crew of ExoGeni, you'd need to be represented even less.
And you're pretty much assuming that the Council's opinion matters. From what we've seen, they're incredibly incompetent; the only time you need them on your side, or anyone other than the Normandy crew, is when they're going to be on your side no matter what.

How many of those employees knew of the Thorian?  Jeong and Elizabeth.  Without 100% of a charm/intim score, you have to shoot him in the head.  That leaves 1 individual and the VI.  You're also leaking ExoGeni's dirty little secrets, they're most certainly *not* going to defend you.  If anything, they'd try to silence you and work to point all the evidence towards you being a murderor. 

And you're assuming the Council is impotent.  They don't believe insane assertions.  Shepard has provided a grand total of 1 piece of evidence to the Council, and that's Tali's recording.  As they've said, they represent trillions of lives, and cannot take *anything* on faith, even a Spectre.  You have no proof of anything.  Just testimony of two individuals, one 'traumatized dock worker' and one Asari that was engulphed in a giant plant and came out spewing stories about mind controlling ships.

Liara+Mind Meld one of the Councilors = Profit.
Besides which, even when you -have- convinced them of anything, when have they done anything? Joker had to rally the army to defend the Citadel; not the Council. They refused to send you help at Ilos. They even grounded you.

They're idiotic ****s and a waste of your all-important time.

[CmdrFenix83]

Schroing wrote...

And every second wasted reasoning with the council in an attempt to get some pointless title was a second you could've spent going after Saren, during which any number of hypotheticals might've happened.

He had said title giving him virtually limitless power.  You're a grunt that still has to answer to the law.  You're forced to waste time finding proof.  There is no other choice.  He can go wherever and do whatever, you can't.  Trying to go it alone will result in charges being brought against you for murder, stalling more time.  Tali's evidence gave you exactly what was necessary to proceed.  Without it, you wouldn't have caught Saren, period. 

You can claim to 'go it alone!' and try to go without your Spectre status.  However, this means no logistical help from the Council, and no known link to Benezia until after you clear Noveria.  Anderson would probably help you still, so through him you might still hear about Liara after taking out Benezia.  However, you're stuck.  The Council was never investigating Saren, no STG team went to Virmire, you never heard about Virmire.  No second beacon, no intact vision leading to Ilos.  Saren makes it through the Conduit while you're still trying to figure out a next move.

[CmdrFenix83]

Schroing wrote...

And I think you're a dirty sheep/on-the-bandwagon-guy/conformist/communist.

I wasn't aware that 'majority rule' and democracy was communism.

[Schroing]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Schroing wrote...

And every second wasted reasoning with the council in an attempt to get some pointless title was a second you could've spent going after Saren, during which any number of hypotheticals might've happened.

He had said title giving him virtually limitless power.  You're a grunt that still has to answer to the law.  You're forced to waste time finding proof.  There is no other choice.  He can go wherever and do whatever, you can't.  Trying to go it alone will result in charges being brought against you for murder, stalling more time.  Tali's evidence gave you exactly what was necessary to proceed.  Without it, you wouldn't have caught Saren, period. 

You can claim to 'go it alone!' and try to go without your Spectre status.  However, this means no logistical help from the Council, and no known link to Benezia until after you clear Noveria.  Anderson would probably help you still, so through him you might still hear about Liara after taking out Benezia.  However, you're stuck.  The Council was never investigating Saren, no STG team went to Virmire, you never heard about Virmire.  No second beacon, no intact vision leading to Ilos.  Saren makes it through the Conduit while you're still trying to figure out a next move.

One of many hypotheticals.
Or, maybe, the first planet you decide to go to after playing spin the globe is Virmire, and while there you hear the radio transmission from the STG and thus everything is set in place and whatnot and thus the epic tale begins.

[Zulu_DFA]

DuffyMJ wrote...
Tali AI hacked, overloaded, sabotaged, droned, energy drained, and shotgun-blasted her way through entire legions of Geth, Mercs, Husks and, possibly depending on what order you played your ME2 missions, Collectors and Reaper-occupied collector bodies.

Not in *my* game, she didn't. As I said, it's a matter of Shepard's opinion and oratorical talent to sway the Admirals by a fancy speech.

*My* Shepard presented the Quarians with the evidence of Rael'Zorah's culpability in order to sabotage their war effort against the Geth, whom he sees as the only useful and therefore desirable Humanity's ally against the Reapers. And beyond.