290 réponses à ce sujet

[CmdrFenix83]

Schroing wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

It's still not better for the galaxy as a whole, regardless of what Douchebag Shepard thinks.  Commiting mass genocide of multiple species, keeping an organic liquifying base and handing it to terrorists, etc is just not in the Galaxy's best interest.  It's almost as absurd as making the assertion that the Reapers need to win 'in the galaxy's best interest'.  All Renegade Shepard is doing is causing civil unrest, military buildups, and splintering of trusts within the galaxy.  They're going to be at each other's throats when the Reapers come a callin'.  All of this, is just setting things up for humanity to take over the galaxy as a whole.  Sounds pretty close to Palpatine's plans.

Your version of 'renegade' Shepard is just a powermonger, manipulating the galaxy to end up with himself in a seat of ultimate power.

No, no. He's building a seat for humanity, not himself.
He's more like the Agent in Serenity, before Mal pwns him, than Palpatine.

And please; we can't say that the renegade options in ME2 are going to cause anything. ME3 hasn't happened yet, neither of us are developers. Stay away from that train of thought.

Think what you will, but mark my words.  If you give TIM the base, there's a damned good chance he's going to use it to secure his own place at the head of the galaxy.

[Schroing]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Schroing wrote...

And I think you're a dirty sheep/on-the-bandwagon-guy/conformist/communist.

I wasn't aware that 'majority rule' and democracy was communism.

"That was a joke."

[Schroing]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Schroing wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

It's still not better for the galaxy as a whole, regardless of what Douchebag Shepard thinks.  Commiting mass genocide of multiple species, keeping an organic liquifying base and handing it to terrorists, etc is just not in the Galaxy's best interest.  It's almost as absurd as making the assertion that the Reapers need to win 'in the galaxy's best interest'.  All Renegade Shepard is doing is causing civil unrest, military buildups, and splintering of trusts within the galaxy.  They're going to be at each other's throats when the Reapers come a callin'.  All of this, is just setting things up for humanity to take over the galaxy as a whole.  Sounds pretty close to Palpatine's plans.

Your version of 'renegade' Shepard is just a powermonger, manipulating the galaxy to end up with himself in a seat of ultimate power.

No, no. He's building a seat for humanity, not himself.
He's more like the Agent in Serenity, before Mal pwns him, than Palpatine.

And please; we can't say that the renegade options in ME2 are going to cause anything. ME3 hasn't happened yet, neither of us are developers. Stay away from that train of thought.

Think what you will, but mark my words.  If you give TIM the base, there's a damned good chance he's going to use it to secure his own place at the head of the galaxy.

And thus Humanity's, which would be for the greater good of the galaxy.

[DuffyMJ]

Schroing wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

I'm American, I am master of my own destiny.

Clearly you're not, since your opinion/judgements/actions and thus your destiny are just the opinions/judgements/actions of others.
It's a logical fallacy for a goddamned reason. I just can't take you seriously.

Wrong.   You don't know anything about me, so please kindly shut the **** up.

My morales and actions are based on these things:

- Naturally ingrained human morales present at birth (natural sense of interpersonal empathy, basic concepts of fairness, utility of temperance, natural curiosity and interest in understanding phenomena)

- Family/parochial values aquired as an outgrowth of natural interpersonal empathy.  Respect and sympathy for closely-held beliefs of those who I share ancestry, love, co-dependency, and recreational passions with.

- Universal norms and standards of human principle handed down by great people of the past, based on my own judgment via synthesis of documents, media.  Shared beliefs that span centuries, cultures, and even species in some cases.

- My own desires, comforts, luxuries, and reverences projected and related with those expressed by others in conversation and other discourse.

- Faith, my view that the universe by its nature is grounded in beauty, harmony, symmetry, and cooperation, and that this must be likewise hoped for in a great society. 

Modifié par DuffyMJ, 11 mars 2010 - 08:12 .

[CmdrFenix83]

Schroing wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Schroing wrote...

All of the ExoGeni employees who were bunkered down in that little place survive and repopulate the colony.
You don't need to defend yourself with that many people; and, for that matter, with the off-planet legal crew of ExoGeni, you'd need to be represented even less.
And you're pretty much assuming that the Council's opinion matters. From what we've seen, they're incredibly incompetent; the only time you need them on your side, or anyone other than the Normandy crew, is when they're going to be on your side no matter what.

How many of those employees knew of the Thorian?  Jeong and Elizabeth.  Without 100% of a charm/intim score, you have to shoot him in the head.  That leaves 1 individual and the VI.  You're also leaking ExoGeni's dirty little secrets, they're most certainly *not* going to defend you.  If anything, they'd try to silence you and work to point all the evidence towards you being a murderor. 

And you're assuming the Council is impotent.  They don't believe insane assertions.  Shepard has provided a grand total of 1 piece of evidence to the Council, and that's Tali's recording.  As they've said, they represent trillions of lives, and cannot take *anything* on faith, even a Spectre.  You have no proof of anything.  Just testimony of two individuals, one 'traumatized dock worker' and one Asari that was engulphed in a giant plant and came out spewing stories about mind controlling ships.

Liara+Mind Meld one of the Councilors = Profit.
Besides which, even when you -have- convinced them of anything, when have they done anything? Joker had to rally the army to defend the Citadel; not the Council. They refused to send you help at Ilos. They even grounded you.

They're idiotic ****s and a waste of your all-important time.

If they were going to mind meld, they would have done it with Shepard to understand his vision.  They think you're nuts.  Showing them the insane images your mind has conjured up would most likely hurt your cause more than help it.

Second, they didn't ground you, Udina did.

[Xeranx]

I found it questionable that the video had Rael tell Tali to inform Xen and Gerrel and you can only tell Gerrel about it. A dying man's last wish and you can only complete it half-way. I think that was something that was accidentally overlooked.

[Schroing]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Schroing wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

I'm American, I am master of my own destiny.

Clearly you're not, since your opinion/judgements/actions and thus your destiny are just the opinions/judgements/actions of others.
It's a logical fallacy for a goddamned reason. I just can't take you seriously.

Wrong.   You don't know anything about me, so please kindly shut the **** up.

My morales and actions are based on these things:

- Naturally ingrained human morales present at birth (natural sense of interpersonal empathy, basic concepts of fairness, utility of temperance, natural curiosity and interest in understanding phenomena)

- Family/parochial values aquired as an outgrowth of natural interpersonal empathy.  Respect and sympathy for closely-held beliefs of those who I share ancestry, love, co-dependency, and recreational passions with.

- Universal norms and standards of human principle handed down by great people of the past, based on my own judgment via synthesis of documents, media.  Shared beliefs that span centuries, cultures, and even species in some cases.

- My own desires, comforts, luxuries, and reverences projected and related with those expressed by others in conversation and other discourse.

- Faith, my view that the universe by its nature is grounded in beauty, harmony, symmetry, and cooperation, and that this must be likewise hoped for in a great society. 

You've yet to demonstrate this to me, and thus I refuse to believe it and instead assert that you're simply a conformist who wants to sound smarter than he is.

[DuffyMJ]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...
Tali AI hacked, overloaded, sabotaged, droned, energy drained, and shotgun-blasted her way through entire legions of Geth, Mercs, Husks and, possibly depending on what order you played your ME2 missions, Collectors and Reaper-occupied collector bodies.

Not in *my* game, she didn't. As I said, it's a matter of Shepard's opinion and oratorical talent to sway the Admirals by a fancy speech.

*My* Shepard presented the Quarians with the evidence of Rael'Zorah's culpability in order to sabotage their war effort against the Geth, whom he sees as the only useful and therefore desirable Humanity's ally against the Reapers. And beyond.

I have no evidence of how you played your game, only your testimony which, in context of this conversation, is highly suspect.  It's also absolutely impossible for you to have played up until the point of the trial without having had Tali fight by your side and contribute to your survival as such without Tali being assigned as a squadmember, unless you are also arguing that you conciously did not level her up, utilize her skills against the Geth, and managed to position her so that she made zero shots on target throughout the mission. 

[Zulu_DFA]

Schroing wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Schroing wrote...

And I think you're a dirty sheep/on-the-bandwagon-guy/conformist/communist.

I wasn't aware that 'majority rule' and democracy was communism.

"That was a joke."

Right, everyone knows that communists are renegades...

[reaches for steel helmet]

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 11 mars 2010 - 08:16 .

[CmdrFenix83]

Schroing wrote...

One of many hypotheticals.
Or, maybe, the first planet you decide to go to after playing spin the globe is Virmire, and while there you hear the radio transmission from the STG and thus everything is set in place and whatnot and thus the epic tale begins.

Wrong.  The STG isn't investigating Virmire because they were sent to investigate Saren after you exposed him.  Virmire remains completely unknown, and Saren with his armies of Geth and Krogan come pouring through the Conduit and activate the relay.  Game.  Over.

[Schroing]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Second, they didn't ground you, Udina did.

By the Council's will.

[CmdrFenix83]

Schroing wrote...

And thus Humanity's, which would be for the greater good of the galaxy.

And again, Humanity is one species in said galaxy.  Good for 1 species != good for all.  Your Renegade Shepard is a powerhungry douchebag.

[Schroing]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Schroing wrote...

One of many hypotheticals.
Or, maybe, the first planet you decide to go to after playing spin the globe is Virmire, and while there you hear the radio transmission from the STG and thus everything is set in place and whatnot and thus the epic tale begins.

Wrong.  The STG isn't investigating Virmire because they were sent to investigate Saren after you exposed him.  Virmire remains completely unknown, and Saren with his armies of Geth and Krogan come pouring through the Conduit and activate the relay.  Game.  Over.

Then it's just as likely you start at Ilos and eyeball the counduit while you're there.
Or someone else exposes Saren, or Tali survives the ambush and presents the evidence on her own.

[DuffyMJ]

Schroing wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Schroing wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

I'm American, I am master of my own destiny.

Clearly you're not, since your opinion/judgements/actions and thus your destiny are just the opinions/judgements/actions of others.
It's a logical fallacy for a goddamned reason. I just can't take you seriously.

Wrong.   You don't know anything about me, so please kindly shut the **** up.

My morales and actions are based on these things:

- Naturally ingrained human morales present at birth (natural sense of interpersonal empathy, basic concepts of fairness, utility of temperance, natural curiosity and interest in understanding phenomena)

- Family/parochial values aquired as an outgrowth of natural interpersonal empathy.  Respect and sympathy for closely-held beliefs of those who I share ancestry, love, co-dependency, and recreational passions with.

- Universal norms and standards of human principle handed down by great people of the past, based on my own judgment via synthesis of documents, media.  Shared beliefs that span centuries, cultures, and even species in some cases.

- My own desires, comforts, luxuries, and reverences projected and related with those expressed by others in conversation and other discourse.

- Faith, my view that the universe by its nature is grounded in beauty, harmony, symmetry, and cooperation, and that this must be likewise hoped for in a great society. 

You've yet to demonstrate this to me, and thus I refuse to believe it and instead assert that you're simply a conformist who wants to sound smarter than he is.

I have nothing to prove to you and will suffer no consequence for not doing so, as the rule of law in my country protects me from any kind of consequence resulting from your opinions.

[CmdrFenix83]

Xeranx wrote...

I found it questionable that the video had Rael tell Tali to inform Xen and Gerrel and you can only tell Gerrel about it. A dying man's last wish and you can only complete it half-way. I think that was something that was accidentally overlooked.

Or if you go talk to Han'Garrel and leave the decision to reveal the evidence in Tali's hands, she keeps it to herself.

[Schroing]

Good for 1 species != good for all.

Prove it.

Your Renegade Shepard is a powerhungry douchebag.

No he's not. He's not dying any of this for himself; he just believes that other races are big, stupid jellyfish and can't rule over themselves. They -need- human held, they -need- human leadership.

[GenericPlayer2]

Yes, it is the right thing to do. Its like Zaeed's loyalty mission, you can do the right thing and not get his loyalty, or you can do as he asks. No different.

[CmdrFenix83]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Schroing wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Schroing wrote...

And I think you're a dirty sheep/on-the-bandwagon-guy/conformist/communist.

I wasn't aware that 'majority rule' and democracy was communism.

"That was a joke."

Right, everyone knows that communists are renegades...

[reaches for steel helmet]

Actually Renegades would be dictators moving to set the pawns of the galaxy(other races) against each other to move in and take power for themselves.

[Schroing]

DuffyMJ wrote...

I have nothing to prove to you

You obviously do. You spent, like, what, a good 5 minutes of your time typing all of that crap up, and it sure wasn't for anyone else in this thread.

[Zulu_DFA]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...
Tali AI hacked, overloaded, sabotaged, droned, energy drained, and shotgun-blasted her way through entire legions of Geth, Mercs, Husks and, possibly depending on what order you played your ME2 missions, Collectors and Reaper-occupied collector bodies.

Not in *my* game, she didn't. As I said, it's a matter of Shepard's opinion and oratorical talent to sway the Admirals by a fancy speech.

*My* Shepard presented the Quarians with the evidence of Rael'Zorah's culpability in order to sabotage their war effort against the Geth, whom he sees as the only useful and therefore desirable Humanity's ally against the Reapers. And beyond.

I have no evidence of how you played your game, only your testimony which, in context of this conversation, is highly suspect.  It's also absolutely impossible for you to have played up until the point of the trial without having had Tali fight by your side and contribute to your survival as such without Tali being assigned as a squadmember, unless you are also arguing that you conciously did not level her up, utilize her skills against the Geth, and managed to position her so that she made zero shots on target throughout the mission. 

In ME1 I used Tali once. On Virmire, when Ashley was arming the nuke and Kaidan was frying at the AA tower.
In ME2 I used Tali once. At her loyalty mission. I didn't coun how many geth she killed but I'm sure i killed/hacked more and Legion killed more than her too.

I was hoping to leave her with the Migrant Fleet after the trial, but the game didn't give me a chance. She died during the C-base approach.

[DuffyMJ]

Schroing wrote...

Good for 1 species != good for all.

Prove it.

Your Renegade Shepard is a powerhungry douchebag.

No he's not. He's not dying any of this for himself; he just believes that other races are big, stupid jellyfish and can't rule over themselves. They -need- human held, they -need- human leadership.

He is in no position to make such a decision, regardless of his beliefs.

You seem to live in a strange world of cognitive dissonance where it's not okay for the council to make decisions for humanity, but it's perfectly fine for one human to make decisions for all humanity and organic life in general.  Very disturbing...

[Schroing]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

Yes, it is the right thing to do. Its like Zaeed's loyalty mission, you can do the right thing and not get his loyalty, or you can do as he asks. No different.

...Uh...persuasion check?

[CmdrFenix83]

Schroing wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Second, they didn't ground you, Udina did.

By the Council's will.

It's a human ship that they loaned you.  If you had your own ship, the Council said that it's your *job* to do whatever it takes to stop Saren if you believe he's the threat.  The Council doesn't take overt action against an Ambassador without a very good reason.  Read Revelation.

[DuffyMJ]

Schroing wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

I have nothing to prove to you

You obviously do. You spent, like, what, a good 5 minutes of your time typing all of that crap up, and it sure wasn't for anyone else in this thread.

Once again, you're basing everything you think on ridiculous assumptions... one that doesn't consider, for instance, that I'm bored on a video game message board during a 3 hour seminar...

[Schroing]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Schroing wrote...

Good for 1 species != good for all.

Prove it.

Your Renegade Shepard is a powerhungry douchebag.

No he's not. He's not dying any of this for himself; he just believes that other races are big, stupid jellyfish and can't rule over themselves. They -need- human held, they -need- human leadership.

He is in no position to make such a decision, regardless of his beliefs.

You seem to live in a strange world of cognitive dissonance where it's not okay for the council to make decisions for humanity, but it's perfectly fine for one human to make decisions for all humanity and organic life in general.  Very disturbing...

You live in a stranger world where I'm Renegade Shepard, or even Shepard in general.