58 réponses à ce sujet

[Vengeful Nature]

I like the Dalish origin, but mostly because I like Princess Mononoke and the Dalish PC mirrors A****aka from that movie.

It's not my favourite, though. The best IMO are the human and dwarf nobles.

edit: lol at the censorship of Ash!taka.

Modifié par Vengeful Nature, 11 mars 2010 - 10:02 .

[thegreateski]

The only interesting part of the Dalish origin to me was Tamlin . . . and that was because he's the most manly Elf I've ever seen.

[Emerald Melios]

The Dalish Origin wasn't as good as Magi or City Elf I'll admit, but the changes to dialogue were rather interesting. It'd be nice if the clan turns up in Awakening, but....probably not. 

[Sarah1281]

the possibility of getting land for the Dalish at the end.

That, much like in the HN origin asking for Howe to get punished for what he did, is kind of a wasted wish since no matter what origin you play Howe's lands go to the GWs and the Dalish get a home.

It doesn't help that Duncan has much better reasons to visit all of the other Origins looking for recruits.

I thought both dwarf origins had a very believable reason for Duncan to be there: seeing the retreat of the darkspawn in the deep roads is more evidence of Blight. In the CE origin, for example, Duncan shows up to recruit you...on your wedding day. Assuming Vaughn had come back another day, the CE would have been married when Dunan brought up the offer. It really would have made more sense to offer joining the Wardens before the wedding so the CE could get out of it and NOT abandon a brand-new spouse if the answer was 'yes.'

Do you prefer the commoner or noble? I think commoner since that's about as low as you go

I really liked both dwarf origins (despite the height) mainly because Orzammar is easily one of the longest parts in the game and if I'm not a dwarf, I have no reason to care. Of course, it's interesting because playing as a DN I love Orzammar, even when everyone is hostile during the story. It makes sense and given they suspect her of fratricide, you really can't blame them. Playing as a DC, I really hate Orzammar because they're so caught up in their traditions they completely write off an entire group of people.



I like playing DN more because then she can have fun playing politics again in Orzammar and at the Landsmeet (and can avoid a broken heart with Alistair as the minute he reveals the truth about his father she can see how this COULD end and back off before she falls in love). It is really a debate whether to take vengeance on Bhelen for outplaying her or keeping the throne in her House. The DN knows both candidates quite well and whether or not King Endrin died of natural causes MATTERS to them. With the other origins there isn't nearly enough information on what each candiate stands for and to get anything, you have to look very carefully. DC you almost HAVE to pick Bhelen because otherwise Rica will go back to being less than nothing (although her dissing the DN kind of pissed me off since I had just played that origin). Still, the fact that her happy ending is being a concubine who can't even take her son out of the royal nursery? Bring on being heir to House Aeducan and Harrowmont's probable choice for successor or using your Paragon status to actually get things done in the Assembly for a change.

[barkingM1]

I'm one of the minority group, & like it a lot.  Maybe it's just that I just like the Dalish culture, and I tend to write a lot of backstory for my characters in my head.   I found the departure scene fairly poignant - here's someone who is part of a close-knit, independent tribe, and basically gets cast out by the Keeper to serve & die amongst the Shemlen.  

I also like the moko.

[Fishy]

mousestalker wrote...

I liked the Dalish origin. It's the obligatory generic origin. It is the weakest save for the Mage origin. But then again I like elves and I absolutely loathe Jowan (a distant second to Vaughan).

The Brecilian Dalish are generally friendly, which is nice. You get an awesome convo option with Zathrian. Seeing Tamlin was heartbreaking.

All the mage origin ever did was make me want to leave (as per SurelyForth) and be mean to Wynne (so not going back to the tower).

I was never mean to Wynne .I mean you basicly grow up in the tower.It's that or be hunted for the rest of your life by angry Templar and the Chantry.Even if you're very talented.There's always someone that can kick your butt.You're not a god and the templar = an entire armies .

So yes it's a prison .. But you can leave and do *mage* mission after the fade thing once you become a true mage.It's also protect you to some degree.Mage are feared and treated like crap .Especialy the outsider one.

Plus on a roleplaying perspective .. It's simply make no sense to hate that place.Just like it's make no sense to be an Atheist if you play a noble . Your parent and basicly everyone close to you believe in the maker.Plus  you was probably raised with a church in your face.

My mage don't want to leave the tower.Morrigan don't influence my mage.She's just an outcast that lived all of her live inside a jungle.Ill pick the tower . At least i have more contact than tree.

[Sarah1281]

My mage don't want to leave the tower.Morrigan don't influence my mage.She's just an outcast that lived all of her live inside a jungle.Ill pick the tower . At least i have more contact than tree.

That's reason enough not to be an apostate, but Morrigan's isolation after she grew old enough to be able to control her powers was more her mother's special brand of child-rearing than anything else.



And if you play a mage, why would you want to stay there? Being a GW means you're not hunted by templars anymore, you basically get a free pass on bloodmagic if you insist its 'Grey Warden magic', and can live amongst normal people without them being afraid of you because EVERYONE knows Grey Wardens are heroes. Even the people in the Pearl trying to trap GW supporters know, they just don't care.

[wonko33]

Addai67 wrote...


Or you could just not have found something in it that others do??  Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's bad.

I loved my Dalish playthrough- it had a lot of emotional oomph, from beginning to end.  I haven't played a Dalish character since, because I don't want to spoil it.

I did not dislike the origin part of the Dalish per se, when I got to Ostagar I was ready to roleplay that character to the hilt. But I found there weren't any events that tied him to what was going on, even during the Nature of the Beast part. That's why I am asking if I missed something.

[Addai]

Suprez30 wrote...
Plus on a roleplaying perspective .. It's simply make no sense to hate that place.

Sure it does.  Dragged from your family at a young age and held prisoner all your life- I don't care if it's "for your protection," that's awful.  Particularly when the very people doing the "protecting" are the ones who are stoking the hatred of you.

Modifié par Addai67, 11 mars 2010 - 11:03 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Suprez30 wrote...

I was never mean to Wynne .I mean you basicly grow up in the tower.It's that or be hunted for the rest of your life by angry Templar and the Chantry.Even if you're very talented.There's always someone that can kick your butt.You're not a god and the templar = an entire armies .

So yes it's a prison .. But you can leave and do *mage* mission after the fade thing once you become a true mage.It's also protect you to some degree.Mage are feared and treated like crap .Especialy the outsider one.

Plus on a roleplaying perspective .. It's simply make no sense to hate that place.Just like it's make no sense to be an Atheist if you play a noble . Your parent and basicly everyone close to you believe in the maker.Plus  you was probably raised with a church in your face.

My mage don't want to leave the tower.Morrigan don't influence my mage.She's just an outcast that lived all of her live inside a jungle.Ill pick the tower . At least i have more contact than tree.

I disagree. It would be very easy for a mage to hate the tower, depending on their history. They weren't born there, they were brought there, and from the sounds of most stories, your mage wasn't brought there willingly or happily. It would make sense to hate the place as a prison that seperates you from the outside world, and your family. And the fact that you are housed with unstable, full armed drug addicts that pretty much are looking for any excuse to kill you. So, depending on the type of mage you play, it makes perfect sense to hate the place.

Nor does it not make sense for a human noble to be an athiest. Just because you are raised with a dogma does not mean you will subscribe to it. I've known people that were raised in strict religous families, went to strict religous schools, and came out of it raving athiests. People are not always a product of their upbringing, and even at young ages, people can start to feel whether or not they are into a particular belief system.

What does make little sense is that non-human social origins, such as the Dalish and dwarves, who have little to no exposure from the Chantry, making reference to the maker, or not invoking the names of their own gods or ancestors.

[krylo]

CalJones wrote...

The mirror thing didn't sit well with me - it seemed very contrived. Ooh I caught the taint off a magic mirror! Right...

The mirror was actually the only thing I found interesting, mostly because of the whole "I think I see a city... it's dark... underground maybe..." etc. from a Tevinter divining mirror that fills with taint.

Kind of got the idea that Tamlen was looking into the Black City, which would be interesting if true.

[barkingM1]

krylo wrote...

CalJones wrote...

The mirror thing didn't sit well with me - it seemed very contrived. Ooh I caught the taint off a magic mirror! Right...

The mirror was actually the only thing I found interesting, mostly because of the whole "I think I see a city... it's dark... underground maybe..." etc. from a Tevinter divining mirror that fills with taint.

Kind of got the idea that Tamlen was looking into the Black City, which would be interesting if true.

That was my thought as well, krylo. 

[Gilsa]

The hardest thing about the Dalish origin for me is coming up with a motivation to be with the Grey Wardens. Duncan wouldn't tell my character why I was sick and it just seemed like if my character was going to die, I'd rather be with my family and people I know instead of going off with a stranger. That was the only origin where a character of mine ended up being conscripted. It was hard to want to carry the griffon banner after Duncan passed on. Why not just leave Alistair at Flemeth's and find my tribe again since Grey Wardens were wiped out? It's the one origin I haven't finished so I'll just restart the dalish origin after Awakening and see if there's another approach I can take to shake things up.

It was just a lot easier for my dwarves to desire to be a Grey Warden and there were mechanics in place to set up this story. Noble has a huge interest in fighting the darkspawn since it affects her people. Might not be in line for the throne anymore, but ending the Blight to find a way to save her people is a big motivation. Commoner sees fighting the darkspawn as her ticket out of Dust Town, but warrior caste won't let brands bear arms. Duncan arrives in city and casteless goes out of her way to impress Duncan so she can be recruited. Duncan's interests are her interests. And her sister being with the King of Ozrammar and her new nephew in line for the throne cements her interest in fighting the darkspawn.

I am just not finding a similar hook for the dalish origin. I do give mad props to the Dalish probably having the one of the best emotional scenes in the origin. Walking through the tribe and saying good bye to people you'll never see again ... wow, that was just tough. The only other scene that has this much emotional impact is the blown-away look on Duncan's face when the dwarf commoner reveals her true identity in the Provings. Epic.

[Addai]

My character was convinced when the keeper told her that the clan could not outrun the Blight and that this WAS her duty to them. She still felt it like a death, as if Tamlen's funeral was also her own, but I imagined that she saw herself as an arrow being sent out into the heart of the Blight. In time, she came to see that she couldn't ever go back to Dalish life and that the Grey Wardens were now her "clan."

[Addai]

Sandtigress wrote...

Oh, definitely, on both accounts, Addai. There was the fun of slowing down the romance because she was so unsure about loving a human, and then the very emotional bittersweetness of the end. She is my favorite and canon playthrough though, and I don't really see anything "wrong" about the romance ending on a note like that - starcrossed lovers who will always love each other even if they have to lead separate lives.

Then we saw it similarly. 

I just posted above about how my DE came to see the Grey Wardens as her clan.  From then on, it was not too hard for her to fall in love with Alistair.  I also saw her as more compatible with him in some ways than my HNF characters are.  They're relatively pampered nobles; she's a keeper's daughter (Arlathan noble stock) who grew up in the rough and he's a king's son who grew up sleeping in stables.

I had her set up the marriage to Anora and remain his mistress while rebuilding the GWs.  It was definitely bittersweet.  There would be lots of lonely nights for all of them, but she could keep her true love and her independence, and she would leave the royal sphere to Anora, who would have no illusions about the marriage being anything but political.

In some ways I think my DE made the best Grey Warden.  She was not as consumed with herself as my city elf or mage, not as consumed with rage as my city elf or human noble, and understood complete devotion to one's clan.

[Sandtigress]

Mine was similar - it was her duty to represent her clan and the Dalish as a whole and defeat this Blight. The Wardens became her new clan, and then I suspect things got personal when the Wardens were destroyed by treachery.



Going back to the Dalish in the Brecilian Forest was at the same time a homecoming and a reminder that she couldn't just be "Dalish" anymore. She was one of them, and yet not.

[krylo]

Gilsa wrote...

The hardest thing about the Dalish origin for me is coming up with a motivation to be with the Grey Wardens. Duncan wouldn't tell my character why I was sick and it just seemed like if my character was going to die, I'd rather be with my family and people I know instead of going off with a stranger. That was the only origin where a character of mine ended up being conscripted. It was hard to want to carry the griffon banner after Duncan passed on. Why not just leave Alistair at Flemeth's and find my tribe again since Grey Wardens were wiped out? It's the one origin I haven't finished so I'll just restart the dalish origin after Awakening and see if there's another approach I can take to shake things up.

It was just a lot easier for my dwarves to desire to be a Grey Warden and there were mechanics in place to set up this story. Noble has a huge interest in fighting the darkspawn since it affects her people. Might not be in line for the throne anymore, but ending the Blight to find a way to save her people is a big motivation. Commoner sees fighting the darkspawn as her ticket out of Dust Town, but warrior caste won't let brands bear arms. Duncan arrives in city and casteless goes out of her way to impress Duncan so she can be recruited. Duncan's interests are her interests. And her sister being with the King of Ozrammar and her new nephew in line for the throne cements her interest in fighting the darkspawn.

I am just not finding a similar hook for the dalish origin. I do give mad props to the Dalish probably having the one of the best emotional scenes in the origin. Walking through the tribe and saying good bye to people you'll never see again ... wow, that was just tough. The only other scene that has this much emotional impact is the blown-away look on Duncan's face when the dwarf commoner reveals her true identity in the Provings. Epic.

See, I feel the opposite.

My dalish is told I have a disease and that the Grey Wardens can cure it if I join.  The keeper backs this statement.  And both the keeper and Duncan tell you that it's the taint killing you and that Grey Wardens are afforded a measure of immunity to it.

As a result my dalish was the only one whom actually wanted to do the joining.  My City Elf?  Just wanted out of trouble, and I'm not sure why he didn't desert half way to ostagar.  My Dwarven Commoner?  Same thing.  My Dwarven Noble?  Stopping the blight would actually make things HARDER for her people.  The dwarves are basically fighting a blight every single day of their existence EXCEPT for during an actual blight when the Dark Spawn head to the surface.  She would have preferred running off to Denerim as soon as they hit the surface and living a nice peaceful life with Gorim.  My human noble?  Wanted revenge on Howe, and being a Grey Warden actually got in the way of that.  She's only along because it's duty.  My mage merely saw it as an acceptable sacrifice for freedom from the circle.

The only character whom actually had a reason to do the joining was the dalish.  It was that or die a slow, terrible, death. Everyone else would have been served just as well ditching Duncan as soon as possible.

[Default137]

Dalish - You get to see Tamlen again, and can send a messenger back to your clan, nothing ever comes of this, also get to be mean to humans for ****ing up the Dales. ( however the City Elf is given the same lines )



Mage - Jowan says sup, and Alistar has a one-liner about Mages.



Human Noble - Howe has a ton of lines, Loghain has a bunch of lines, King or Queen, Loghain has many extra lines about Bryce is left to live, Fergus comes back, royalty, Redcliffe.



City Elf - Loghain has a few lines about you, you get to be pissed about the Dales AND treatment in Alienages, father, Alienage fight, people more trusting for you, Dalish camp has more lines then they do for a Dalish Warden, Loghain has more lines about how amazed he is about you since you let him live even after what he did to your people, if you let Vaughen live, much more amusing lines there, Zevran has more lines for you...



Dwarf Noble - Gorim, Orzammar gets changed around, Bhelen is more interesting to talk to, and if you side with him, very touching speech he gives you about how you amazed he is at you, and that the Dwarves will always stand by the Wardens as long as he is king, many people recognize your a Dwarf, comment on you being a Dwarf, and have special dialogue for you as a Dwarf, wheras Elves get the same dialogue as humans, and female Elves get the same dialogue as females.

[CalJones]

Nicely summarised.



The mirror thing - it wasn't the magic mirror itself that I object to. That's all fine. It's the fact you catch the taint off it. Wouldn't it have been more logical to have the characters attacked and injured by the darkspawn and get infected that way? I have a problem with getting ill off inanimate objects. (Yes I know someone can sneeze into their hand and then hold onto the handrail on the train...but the germs don't last very long). It's a minor quibble, really, but that part of the story doesn't work for me.

But yes, the origin itself is OK, but it's the lack of ties to the main story that make it disappointing.

[Cypher0020]

hmmmm I may hafta reroll my dalish.....the wanderer aspect seems cool..... but being an elf mage I also like.....



Hmmm which has better history with dealing with humans?

[Sarah1281]

My Dwarven Noble? Stopping the blight would actually make things HARDER for her people. The dwarves are basically fighting a blight every single day of their existence EXCEPT for during an actual blight when the Dark Spawn head to the surface.

Except that the dwarves should know that abandoning allies is a really bad idea as it lead to their current situation of being one of two dwarven cities perpetually threatened by darkspawn and barely got back into contact with each other after hundreds of years in which they both thought the other destroyed. And if a dwarf PC could stop the Blight, both 'let's reward the hero' and the humans realizing that not only do darkspawn still exist but they are too dangerous to just leave alone dictate that they could probably swing some aid for their people.

DN was actually the only origin I've played where joining the Grey Wardens wasn't forced on my PC. I haven't played Mage but Dalish was going to die of some vague incurable disease, DC was going to be killed or imprisoned for following orders, CE would have been killed for rescuing Shianni, and - worst of all - Duncan refused to help the HN get out of Highever Castle alive unless they joined.

DN, on the other hand, was sentenced to die fighting darkspawn and makes the choice to track down Duncan as the only viable means of survival. Clearly the Grey Wardens know how to get to the surface from the Deep Roads. Odds on the DN? And while I guess it is possible for the DN to get conscripted, dwarves on the surface tend to be either smiths or merchants. Royalty would know nothing about the much inferior smith caste and while they could be a merchant, they'd need to find suppliers, get started, enter surface dwarf politicsif Felsi is to be believed...Gorim ended up marrying into a merchant family to get by. It's doable, but what self-respecting prince or princess would marry the first merchant or smith they could find when they could potentially save Orzammar (and the surface they probably dont care much about) from the Blight?

Bhelen is more interesting to talk to, and if you side with him, very touching speech he gives you about how you amazed he is at you

My personal favorite is when you play DN, side with Harrowmont, and then give the throne to Bhelen at the last second. That's the only time in the game you ever see him flabbergasted and it is priceless.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 12 mars 2010 - 05:32 .

[Sandtigress]

CalJones wrote...

Nicely summarised.

The mirror thing - it wasn't the magic mirror itself that I object to. That's all fine. It's the fact you catch the taint off it. Wouldn't it have been more logical to have the characters attacked and injured by the darkspawn and get infected that way? I have a problem with getting ill off inanimate objects. (Yes I know someone can sneeze into their hand and then hold onto the handrail on the train...but the germs don't last very long). It's a minor quibble, really, but that part of the story doesn't work for me.
But yes, the origin itself is OK, but it's the lack of ties to the main story that make it disappointing.

It would have taken you a long time to get sick from just fighting darkspawn though, if you even did, and that's not even that likely since you're supposed to be a skilled fighter, else Duncan wouldn't bother trying to recruit you.  None of your companions, after all, get sick from the darkspawn taint just from fighting.

The mirror is essentially a source of concentrated darkspawn taint - powerful enough to taint you and Tamlen irreversably as well as affect the cave and eventually start tainting the forest once Tamlen unleashed it.  I don't see it as being that far-fetched.

As far as lacking ties to the rest of the story, I think it again is just what you make of it.  There weren't the direct connections of some of the other origins, but there were plenty of ways to immerse yourself in the story, just as much as any other origin.  You could even think of it as part of your origin, that you're fighting for a world that you're not as much a part of as everyone else, but its your world regardless.  You can tell Wynne something of the sort - that you're fighting in a war that has nothing to do with you.

[Gilsa]

krylo wrote...

See, I feel the opposite.

My dalish is told I have a disease and that the Grey Wardens can cure it if I join.  The keeper backs this statement.  And both the keeper and Duncan tell you that it's the taint killing you and that Grey Wardens are afforded a measure of immunity to it.

As a result my dalish was the only one whom actually wanted to do the joining.

That's a good way of looking at it. I used to have trouble wanting to play a city elf beyond the origin until someone mentioned that they RPed their character as being excited about the wedding and going as far as wearing the wedding dress to Landsmeet as part of the rage-filled origin. I thought that was just a brilliant way of looking at the character.

  My City Elf?  Just wanted out of trouble, and I'm not sure why he didn't desert half way to ostagar.  My Dwarven Commoner?  Same thing.  My Dwarven Noble?  Stopping the blight would actually make things HARDER for her people.  The dwarves are basically fighting a blight every single day of their existence EXCEPT for during an actual blight when the Dark Spawn head to the surface.  She would have preferred running off to Denerim as soon as they hit the surface and living a nice peaceful life with Gorim.  My human noble?  Wanted revenge on Howe, and being a Grey Warden actually got in the way of that.  She's only along because it's duty.  My mage merely saw it as an acceptable sacrifice for freedom from the circle.

And for city elf, I was listening to the dialogue and found my grey warden "hook" in that Duncan also wanted to recruit the CE's mother, but deferred out of respect. I liked that there was some sort of small connection to the city elf and the mother she didn't really know. And my first dwarf commoner, yeah, I was like, "huh, I guess I could have escaped from jail again, didn't really need Duncan, did I?" When I played the commoner again, I liked the angle of wanting to be a respected warrior.

As for the noble, I was reading up on the codexes while in the Deep Roads and while the surface doesn't do anything to help with the darkspawn in between Blights, the dwarves only had themselves to blame for their crumbling empire. None of the noble houses wanted to spare their own soldiers for the safety of others so they fought among themselves and the assembly got caught up in the in-fighting and that's how the darkspawn spread unchecked all the way to Orzammar. When you get to the Deep Roads, the Legion of the Dead is waiting on the orders of the king before they can go in further and once again, the dwarves are not helping with the Blight until they resolve their bickering first. And at the end of the game when you're at Redcliffe, ready to march off to Denerim with your armies, if you stop and talk to the dwarf captain in the room, turns out they're still waiting on more troops because one house wants to be stronger than the other and doesn't want to send their soldiers along to die for the cause. The first paragon was an Aeducan who couldn't deal with the feuding and completely bypassed the nobles and the assembly by taking matters into his own hand with the collapse of tunnels and such. The dwarf noble is in a similiar position as a Grey Warden. If the noble took the position of being a commander seriously in the origin, then this is a natural transition to being a Grey Warden since fighting against the darkspawn dovetails nicely with dwarven interests.

By the way, I totally agree with you on the human noble origin.  The blight was a mere fly in the ointment. =p

[sylvanaerie]

I really like both elf origins and going back to the Dalish for treaty time was nice, felt like homecoming even if it WAS a different clan. They share a similar history and culture, enough it felt like home to me on that PC. I like both dwarf origins. Not a big fan of the Mage one though I enjoy mages. I used to hate Jowan but I wish now there was an Option C instead of A. a backstabbing snitch or B. a deceived moron.

My favorite though is Human Noble. Those scenes always make me cry when you have to say goodbye to all you know and the family you love to go with Duncan who basically knows he is taking you to (Maybe) die in Ostagar to either darkspawn or the Joining. I always got the feeling he was blackmailing/strongarming Bryce into agreeing to it without telling him, "Oh by the way, your daughter/son probably won't ever be able to have kids so the Cousland line will die with her/him" That you don't die and that your brother lives is beside the point cause Duncan doesn't know that.

Recruiting for the Wardens is a thankless, pissy job I sure as heck wouldn't want to do it.

Actually the City Elf is my favorite cause its got so many funny moments in it. Getting all up in Duncan's face and giving Soris a heart attack is hilariously funny for me.  But for tragedy I find the HN one more emotionally impacting.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 12 mars 2010 - 09:21 .

[Vengeful Nature]

I just wish you could have been a mage for the Dalish origin. It's not like it doesn't make sense - you could have been a Keeper in training, and it would have provided an alternate origin for mages, so mage fans wouldn't have to keep replaying the Tower. Also, there could have been some interesting run-ins with the Templars, and the Tower would have been an opportunity to see how humans treat their mages.



I know there's a mod to give you the option, but it doesn't fit in when you go to the Tower, or so I heard.



Still, a man can dream.