They did the mage one for the tower and not a Dalish mage cause they wanted to convey what being a mage is like for the majority of mages in Thedas. The Dalish one was about being a Dalish elf, not a Dalish mage.
Dalish Origin is lacking
Débuté par
wonko33
, mars 11 2010 06:54
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#52
Posté 12 mars 2010 - 11:20
master-fluff
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CalJones wrote...
Nicely summarised.
The mirror thing - it wasn't the magic mirror itself that I object to. That's all fine. It's the fact you catch the taint off it. Wouldn't it have been more logical to have the characters attacked and injured by the darkspawn and get infected that way? I have a problem with getting ill off inanimate objects. (Yes I know someone can sneeze into their hand and then hold onto the handrail on the train...but the germs don't last very long). It's a minor quibble, really, but that part of the story doesn't work for me.
But yes, the origin itself is OK, but it's the lack of ties to the main story that make it disappointing.
But that's exactly what happens isn't it ? I read it as the mirror being some sort of portal or summoning artifact that connects with the Fade. Touching it either opens the portal or calls more darkspawn into the chamber. Tamlen was dragged off by the subsequent darkspawn and couldn't be saved by Duncan. The darkspawn that attacked you caused the taint, not the mirror.
As to the DE origin, I loved the lore and being part of a proud, ancient people. It also made sense to me that there weren't that many tie-ins with the rest of the world seeing as the Dalish pretty much keep themselves to themselves. And given my direct experience of the horror of the darkspawn and losing my lover to them, I had every motivation to be a GW even if I hadn't needed to do the Joining to survive. The reappearance of Tamlen was also surprisingly emotional for me to the point I had to stop playing for a few days to work out why ! The DE story definitely had a big impact for me personally.
#53
Posté 12 mars 2010 - 11:28
Vengeful Nature
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sylvanaerie wrote...
They did the mage one for the tower and not a Dalish mage cause they wanted to convey what being a mage is like for the majority of mages in Thedas. The Dalish one was about being a Dalish elf, not a Dalish mage.
I understand that. It's just my wishful thinking. One more option is never a bad thing when it makes sense.
#54
Posté 12 mars 2010 - 11:51
e-ver
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*goes to stand in the corner with the Dalish Origin fans*
The Dalish origin is my absolute favourite. The only other origin that made it to the final battle was my (human) mage, all other characters are scattered across Ferelden, most of them around Ostagar or Lothering. When I finish a playthrough I think about what kind of character I want to play next and... usually end up with another Dalish.
I chose the Dalish origin for my very first character deliberately, because I wanted a character that, like me as a new player, would know little about Ferelden and Fereldan culture and society etc. and had a reason to ask about things like the Chant of Light, Templars, mages & apostates and so on. It worked out very well, but beyond that, I grew very attached to the role this origin allows me to play.
I like to play characters that are outsiders, thrust into a
world/society they know nothing about and that they despise or that despises them. (That's what I liked so much
about Morrowind, you're an "outlander" and the NPCs never forget to
mention it.) My Dalish usually end up being conscripted (only one was proud to represent his people for the GWs) and it's interesting to come up with different reasons for my various Dalish PCs to continue fighting after Ostagar, instead of just leaving. I like playing standoffish and aloof characters and the Dalish origin is perfect for that.
As far as lack of content goes, I can only compare it to the one other origin I played til the end, the mage, and I have to say, that the Dalish was a lot more satisfying for me. The ending of the origin (before going to Ostagar) was very emotional for me, even more so than the Human Noble (though I can't really say why, it just was). All scenes with Tamlen, who I like a lot, were heartwrenching. Seeing him when the camp is attacked and having to kill him, but also the scenes in the Gauntlet. First the conversation with the Guardian and then seeing Tamlen himself (kind of) and he telling my PCs (most of them female and in love with him) that they need to go on living... it is still a very emotional scene for me, even after playing through it a half dozen times.
I also like the unique approach my Dalish have towards certain quests:
The "Nature of the Beast" is a very difficult quest for them (it's quite easy for those who simply agree with Zathrian, but others are torn between understanding Zathrian's motives, but also disliking that he's lying to his own clan and at the same time not wanting to take their Keeper from them in difficult times like during a blight). It wasn't a hard decision for my mage and I don't forsee my other characters (the ones gathering dust around Lothering) having much trouble there either.
The deal with the Anvil of the Void is also very difficult for my Dalish characters. On the one hand, it smells not so much like Teen Spirit, but like slavery and they all have a very distinct opinon on that. On the other hand they know how it feels to be part of a race who is struggling for survival and the decision between preserving or taking away something that may be the Dwarves' best shot at survival is a hard one.
With my mage and my other characters (even if I don't actively play them, I think a lot about how they would do things) those decisions usually depend on their "alignment". For my Dalish characters there is always a subtext.
But that's of course a very subjective view, I guess it's simply easier for me to get into the head of my Dalish.
Another reason for my love of this origin is, that I love how Elves are portrayed in the Dragon Age universe. A crumbling race, that is desperately trying to preserve its culture and existence (due to their recessive genes), instead of the superior immortal/long-lived beings of Tolkien, D&D and numerous other fantasy settings.
One thing I do not like about this origin, is, that my Dalish always have a hard time with Alistair (except the one who was not conscripted). You loose so much approval with Alistair if you don't like Duncan and didn't want to join the GWs, it's difficult to overcome those initial -40 that are easily accumulated. Some of my characters simply live with it and don't like the "dim-witted shem", but for others I would have liked to become friends with him and it's really hard (if you're playing an honest character).
Duncan doesn't recruit the Dalish PC to save him/her from the taint, he is very impressed by the fact that the PC has resisted the tainted blood so far. "Through your own willpower and your Keeper's healing arts", he says, has the PC survived and he sees that as a quite remarkable feat. I think having this kind of inner strength is a very handy thing for a GW, maybe even more important than initial fighting skills. Those can be learned and improved, not to mention that Duncan knows that the Dalish PC can fight well enough, because the PC fights his way to Duncan through darkspawn when returning to the ruins.
The Dalish origin is my absolute favourite. The only other origin that made it to the final battle was my (human) mage, all other characters are scattered across Ferelden, most of them around Ostagar or Lothering. When I finish a playthrough I think about what kind of character I want to play next and... usually end up with another Dalish.
I chose the Dalish origin for my very first character deliberately, because I wanted a character that, like me as a new player, would know little about Ferelden and Fereldan culture and society etc. and had a reason to ask about things like the Chant of Light, Templars, mages & apostates and so on. It worked out very well, but beyond that, I grew very attached to the role this origin allows me to play.
I like to play characters that are outsiders, thrust into a
world/society they know nothing about and that they despise or that despises them. (That's what I liked so much
about Morrowind, you're an "outlander" and the NPCs never forget to
mention it.) My Dalish usually end up being conscripted (only one was proud to represent his people for the GWs) and it's interesting to come up with different reasons for my various Dalish PCs to continue fighting after Ostagar, instead of just leaving. I like playing standoffish and aloof characters and the Dalish origin is perfect for that.
As far as lack of content goes, I can only compare it to the one other origin I played til the end, the mage, and I have to say, that the Dalish was a lot more satisfying for me. The ending of the origin (before going to Ostagar) was very emotional for me, even more so than the Human Noble (though I can't really say why, it just was). All scenes with Tamlen, who I like a lot, were heartwrenching. Seeing him when the camp is attacked and having to kill him, but also the scenes in the Gauntlet. First the conversation with the Guardian and then seeing Tamlen himself (kind of) and he telling my PCs (most of them female and in love with him) that they need to go on living... it is still a very emotional scene for me, even after playing through it a half dozen times.
I also like the unique approach my Dalish have towards certain quests:
The "Nature of the Beast" is a very difficult quest for them (it's quite easy for those who simply agree with Zathrian, but others are torn between understanding Zathrian's motives, but also disliking that he's lying to his own clan and at the same time not wanting to take their Keeper from them in difficult times like during a blight). It wasn't a hard decision for my mage and I don't forsee my other characters (the ones gathering dust around Lothering) having much trouble there either.
The deal with the Anvil of the Void is also very difficult for my Dalish characters. On the one hand, it smells not so much like Teen Spirit, but like slavery and they all have a very distinct opinon on that. On the other hand they know how it feels to be part of a race who is struggling for survival and the decision between preserving or taking away something that may be the Dwarves' best shot at survival is a hard one.
With my mage and my other characters (even if I don't actively play them, I think a lot about how they would do things) those decisions usually depend on their "alignment". For my Dalish characters there is always a subtext.
But that's of course a very subjective view, I guess it's simply easier for me to get into the head of my Dalish.
Another reason for my love of this origin is, that I love how Elves are portrayed in the Dragon Age universe. A crumbling race, that is desperately trying to preserve its culture and existence (due to their recessive genes), instead of the superior immortal/long-lived beings of Tolkien, D&D and numerous other fantasy settings.
One thing I do not like about this origin, is, that my Dalish always have a hard time with Alistair (except the one who was not conscripted). You loose so much approval with Alistair if you don't like Duncan and didn't want to join the GWs, it's difficult to overcome those initial -40 that are easily accumulated. Some of my characters simply live with it and don't like the "dim-witted shem", but for others I would have liked to become friends with him and it's really hard (if you're playing an honest character).
ExistsAlready wrote...
It doesn't help that Duncan has
much better reasons to visit all of the other Origins looking for
recruits. Or that it's the only Origin to skip out on the "You're such
a great fighter" thing. He ends up recruiting you because you got the
Darkspawn Taint off a mirror and you've got no other choice if you
don't want to turn into a Ghoul.
Duncan doesn't recruit the Dalish PC to save him/her from the taint, he is very impressed by the fact that the PC has resisted the tainted blood so far. "Through your own willpower and your Keeper's healing arts", he says, has the PC survived and he sees that as a quite remarkable feat. I think having this kind of inner strength is a very handy thing for a GW, maybe even more important than initial fighting skills. Those can be learned and improved, not to mention that Duncan knows that the Dalish PC can fight well enough, because the PC fights his way to Duncan through darkspawn when returning to the ruins.
#55
Posté 12 mars 2010 - 12:32
mousestalker
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Agreed. While the origin isn't my favourite, I've always felt that my Dalish have the best reason to join the Grey Warden. The Keeper says to do it, says the character is tainted already, there are definite physical symptoms that confirm that and the Grey Wardens are up to something useful. From Duncan's perspective, we know Riordan says he 'has a soft spot for his recruits'. The Dalish elf's strong resistance to the taint means that thios is a recruit who is likely to survive the Joining.Allerleihrau wrote...
ExistsAlready wrote...
It doesn't help that Duncan has
much better reasons to visit all of the other Origins looking for
recruits. Or that it's the only Origin to skip out on the "You're such
a great fighter" thing. He ends up recruiting you because you got the
Darkspawn Taint off a mirror and you've got no other choice if you
don't want to turn into a Ghoul.
Duncan doesn't recruit the Dalish PC to save him/her from the taint, he is very impressed by the fact that the PC has resisted the tainted blood so far. "Through your own willpower and your Keeper's healing arts", he says, has the PC survived and he sees that as a quite remarkable feat. I think having this kind of inner strength is a very handy thing for a GW, maybe even more important than initial fighting skills. Those can be learned and improved, not to mention that Duncan knows that the Dalish PC can fight well enough, because the PC fights his way to Duncan through darkspawn when returning to the ruins.
My quibble with the origin is that I want to spend more time in it. With the Dwarven origins as well as the Human Noble and City Elf, you can immerse yourself in your culture before going off to become a Grey Warden. That is especially true for the dwarves. Dwarves can buy and sell, the noble can sire children, both origins can fight in the Provings (although under differing circumstances) and there are plenty of people with whom you may interact.
With the Dalish, you can interact with your tribe, learn some about your parents (if your coercion + cunning are high enough) and visit the same combat area twice. It's pretty skimpy. I have much the same criticism about the mage origin.
#56
Posté 12 mars 2010 - 01:12
e-ver
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mousestalker wrote...
*snip*
My quibble with the origin is that I want to spend more time in it. With the Dwarven origins as well as the Human Noble and City Elf, you can immerse yourself in your culture before going off to become a Grey Warden. That is especially true for the dwarves. Dwarves can buy and sell, the noble can sire children, both origins can fight in the Provings (although under differing circumstances) and there are plenty of people with whom you may interact.
With the Dalish, you can interact with your tribe, learn some about your parents (if your coercion + cunning are high enough) and visit the same combat area twice. It's pretty skimpy. I have much the same criticism about the mage origin.
I agree with this. (Naturally, who wouldn't want more content.) I've never stopped the time, but it feels like the shortest origin. I like the conversation with Junar and the flat-ear Pol a lot, but you don't learn a lot about the Dalish culture there. You can ask Hahren Paivel about some Dalish lore (but my characters never do that, because I figure after having lived their entire life with their clan, they would know about Arlathan).
There is also the part about the Dalish PC's parents, this always makes me scratch my head a little. They were from different clans, and had to meet in secret, but it is said, that the clans stay apart, except for the gathering every few years. So, when and how (and how often) did the parents meet? The PC's father also must have been quite old, he is said to have been the Keeper for many years (before Marethari), but he died before the PC was born, so all those years as Keeper must have been before that. On the other hand Ashalle tells the PC that "their elders did not approve of the match". So, the clan's elders have to approve of a Keeper's partner? Or did she simply mean the PC's mother, despite saying "their"? But why would they not approve of a match with a respected Keeper of another clan? Is the Elders' approval necessary regardless of age? Or was the PC's mother quite young?
Despite all this, it's still my favourite origin, but then again it has been proven, that I am an irrational being.
Modifié par Allerleihrau, 12 mars 2010 - 01:14 .
#57
Posté 12 mars 2010 - 05:09
DJ0000
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I thought the Origin itself fizzled after a good start. Up to where you lose Tamlen, it is very cool and the mirror adds intrigue, but after that it gets very boring.
I think it would have been better if they made he mirror more significant. But as it is, the story is just, it's Tevinter, smash. The artifact intrigued me but there was little information and it was just smash and done. Mabey it would have been better to have a small sidequest in the deep roads about the mirror.
I did however think that the later references to the Origin were brilliant. In the gauntlet it gave me a real sense of regret that I couldn't help him more and was forced to leave him. The other moment during the attack was also great and gave me a real emotional hit, especially since my charecteer was the one to slay him.
I think it would have been better if they made he mirror more significant. But as it is, the story is just, it's Tevinter, smash. The artifact intrigued me but there was little information and it was just smash and done. Mabey it would have been better to have a small sidequest in the deep roads about the mirror.
I did however think that the later references to the Origin were brilliant. In the gauntlet it gave me a real sense of regret that I couldn't help him more and was forced to leave him. The other moment during the attack was also great and gave me a real emotional hit, especially since my charecteer was the one to slay him.
#58
Posté 12 mars 2010 - 05:22
DianeLyn56
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I love the Dalish Elf origin and being a Dalish Elf. For the same reasons that have already been stated above. Tamlen telling me he always loved me touched me deeply.
#59
Posté 12 mars 2010 - 07:03
Gilsa
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I really agree with this. I was pleased to see that the roles were different for elves in DAO. Since elves are generally etherial beings, I had wondered if players who really loved elves would be upset that elves were so downtrodden in this game, but people have really seemed to embrace this approach. I'm also impressed that mages are corraled like cattle in a tower rather than being revered as gods among men. It's such a nice change of pace.Allerleihrau wrote...
Another reason for my love of this origin is, that I love how Elves are portrayed in the Dragon Age universe. A crumbling race, that is desperately trying to preserve its culture and existence (due to their recessive genes), instead of the superior immortal/long-lived beings of Tolkien, D&D and numerous other fantasy settings.
Modifié par Gilsa, 12 mars 2010 - 07:04 .
