515 réponses à ce sujet

[SkyJackal]

I just want to thank the people who claim Kasumi was "already on the disk" in perfect working order and just yanked out of the game to bleed us for cash. The lolz you bring are priceless.

It just flies straight in the face of all the evidence and plays solely on DLC/EA paranoia. There's a placeholder model and some early voice work. Yes, this is proof she was cut in development. This is not proof she was working. Quite the opposite.

Things get cut when making games. This does not make them conspiracies to "steal" money from anyone. DLC is a channel for letting both old and new ideas come to life in existing games. Does it matter when they were conceptualised? No. What matters is it's quality content. What no-one can judge yet. When the DLC comes out and you've played through it and felt it wasn't worth the money then you have the right to criticise it's content, not before. Moaning about pointless lunacy isn't helping make future DLC or games better, it's not offering any sort of constructive criticism, it's just running in circles like headless chickens.

DLC is a beautiful, beautiful thing for the creativity of developers and just another staple in the future of the industry. I fully intend to support it as both a method of digital distribution and a way of achieving continued post-game support for our favorite franchises. What others do is up to them, but it isn't going to magic itself away because you whine about it on some forums.

Edit: Oh and for the record, I do feel from a PR perspective it would've made more sense to make Kasumi free through Cerberus and the Hammerhead P2P since, from a consumer viewpoint, it seems to offer more quantitive value. However, I feel this was probably Bioware's intent. They knew the honeymoon period on Cerberus was ending and felt it better to give the argueably more in-depth content to players for free and give them the choice on a cheaper priced Kasumi. It was obviously a decision made with the fanbase in mind and I comend them for it.

Modifié par SkyJackal, 14 mars 2010 - 09:44 .

[TornadoADV]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...
EDIT -- sorry for getting a little forceful on this opinion, by the way.  I just feel very strongly that the first game made us care about the characters, whereas in the second game they've gone quantity as opposed to quality all over the place.  I really hoped they'd learned from Obsidian's mistake with TSL, too many squadmates waters down the experience, and I really don't see how throwing one more into the mix will help at all.  So it's not that I won't spend $7 on 90 minutes of content, I just won't spend $7 on 90 minutes of content about yet another squadmember when we could get to know the ones we have better, you know?

That feeling is definitely not shared among everyone, or even a majority I would wager. Most reviews have even made mention that the characters are the strongest part about ME2.

Also, KoTOR2 had an amazing cast of characters. In fact, that was its strongest point too. Kreia and Bao-Dur were especially awesome.

Sorry, I must meditate and/or calibrate the ships guns, repeatedly, for the entire game.

Yeah, I'm going with ME1 for better characters. Out of ME2, the only people worth anything dialogue wise is Jacob, Zaeed, Mordin and Jack.

[cruc1al]

Adakutay wrote...

 

cruc1al wrote...

Doesn't affect the calculations, as long
as you play through kasumi as many times as you play through the main
game.

No it does. Video games are different then entertaiments like cinema. They have replayability or/and multi-player.
If you calculate the price of a video game or its DLC through play hours then I wonder does Modern Warfare 2 worth 8 bucks to you?

There are six character classes which offer utterly new play styles plus all of them can build-up differently by the player and also game can be played with different moral choices.

And you still insist on appraising the  game for one playthrough?../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png

That's not what I meant.
jbadm04 calculated the price he'd be willing to pay for Kasumi, based on the price/hour of the main game assuming one playthrough. You retorted with "so you only play through it once?" What I tried to tell you is that it doesn't matter at all how many times he plays through the main game, as long as he plays through Kasumi just as many times, because the price/hour calculation of Kasumi will be the same relative to the price/hour of the main game, which is what jbadm04 based his calculations on. Is that so hard to see?

Modifié par cruc1al, 14 mars 2010 - 08:21 .

[EternalWolfe]

TornadoADV wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...
EDIT -- sorry for getting a little forceful on this opinion, by the way.  I just feel very strongly that the first game made us care about the characters, whereas in the second game they've gone quantity as opposed to quality all over the place.  I really hoped they'd learned from Obsidian's mistake with TSL, too many squadmates waters down the experience, and I really don't see how throwing one more into the mix will help at all.  So it's not that I won't spend $7 on 90 minutes of content, I just won't spend $7 on 90 minutes of content about yet another squadmember when we could get to know the ones we have better, you know?

That feeling is definitely not shared among everyone, or even a majority I would wager. Most reviews have even made mention that the characters are the strongest part about ME2.

Also, KoTOR2 had an amazing cast of characters. In fact, that was its strongest point too. Kreia and Bao-Dur were especially awesome.

Sorry, I must meditate and/or calibrate the ships guns, repeatedly, for the entire game.

Yeah, I'm going with ME1 for better characters. Out of ME2, the only people worth anything dialogue wise is Jacob, Zaeed, Mordin and Jack.

That's funny, considering that ME1 character had just as little dialogue as the ones in ME2.

[Tikonov]

Would rather have a patch than any DLC....

[TornadoADV]

EternalWolfe wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...
EDIT -- sorry for getting a little forceful on this opinion, by the way.  I just feel very strongly that the first game made us care about the characters, whereas in the second game they've gone quantity as opposed to quality all over the place.  I really hoped they'd learned from Obsidian's mistake with TSL, too many squadmates waters down the experience, and I really don't see how throwing one more into the mix will help at all.  So it's not that I won't spend $7 on 90 minutes of content, I just won't spend $7 on 90 minutes of content about yet another squadmember when we could get to know the ones we have better, you know?

That feeling is definitely not shared among everyone, or even a majority I would wager. Most reviews have even made mention that the characters are the strongest part about ME2.

Also, KoTOR2 had an amazing cast of characters. In fact, that was its strongest point too. Kreia and Bao-Dur were especially awesome.

Sorry, I must meditate and/or calibrate the ships guns, repeatedly, for the entire game.

Yeah, I'm going with ME1 for better characters. Out of ME2, the only people worth anything dialogue wise is Jacob, Zaeed, Mordin and Jack.

That's funny, considering that ME1 character had just as little dialogue as the ones in ME2.

You're funny, they constantly had things to say in the Normandy, to each other, about things around and in cutscenes. Beats ME2 by a mile.

[LoweGear]

TornadoADV wrote...
You're funny, they constantly had things to say in the Normandy, to each other, about things around and in cutscenes. Beats ME2 by a mile.

The lack of conversations on elevators yes. On the Normandy however the ME1 crew worked in pretty much the same fashion as in ME2: You can only get significant conversations if you've actually completed a primary mission. People complain about Garrus always being in the middle of calibrations, but I also remember getting sidelined by Ashley whenever I sometimes wanted to talk to her in ME1 ("I should get back to work sir.").

However, the reason you get more sidelined in ME2 is because the events to unlock further conversations with the main characters are spaced much further apart, thus you get a lot more "inbetween" time than in ME1, and hence until you complete main missions to unlock further conversations you're stuck with Garrus in the middle of calibrations.
 
Also, they made up a whole lot by having each character have their own loyalty missions, which shows their personalities and backstories quite well. Also, Joker and Dr. Chakwas got to have more lines and more interactions with Shepard this time around than in ME1, which is an improvement to me.

Modifié par LoweGear, 14 mars 2010 - 07:31 .

[Bhaal]

cruc1al ,

Suppose I couldn't explain myself well.

A dlc, even a minor one like Arc-Projector does not add directly "new game hours", it simply expands the vanilla game.

I finished game 5 times now and the arc-projector making my insanity-adept run "different" than former playthroughs. Kasumi, as a companion, offers new ways to play the whole game because she will have different abilities, a new power and new dialogs for rest of the story(not only for her quest). Same goes for the new SMG as well. In conclusion they will make my 7th playthrough feel "fresh"(a poor choice of word I know).

An expension pack can be judged for it's play hours since very reason to buy it is getting "completely new story, new characters, new areas, new experiences etc". DLCs on the other hand add new contents to improve replayability of the main game. So if you don't want to replay the whole game then of course a DLC can't satisfy you but for those like to play their game over and over, "Kasumi's Stolen Memory" aims to improve 40 hours of entertainment. I hope it's not hard see?

Modifié par Adakutay, 14 mars 2010 - 10:19 .

[SethSteiner]

Kasumi was known month ago - fact!

Kasumi was developed long time ago and parts of her are already on disc - fact!

Kasumi`s place is obvious in the character tab, just like Zaeeds

Kasumi won`t have any dialouge after the mission - fact!

Kasumi is no LI, has no arguments with other teammembers, gives no updates and so adds nothing to the game - fact!





This DLC seems to be, just like every single other DLC, already a part of the game. But to top that, it`s again shortend and so has nothing to do with a roleplaying game, with character development, with dialouges.



Why should I pay for something that I already paid with the purchase of the game?

[Inquisitor Zobeda]

She's sessy.



I'm totally looking forward to this. Between DA:O DLC and ME2 DLC the DLC from Fallout3 I'm just now getting and FF13 I'm not gonna have any gaming drought this summer.

[blasto lives]

It is interesting to see that in both "How much would you pay" polls, fewer than 40% of respondents indicate they will buy the DLC if it is $7 as reported. If the DLC is priced at $5, about 70% will buy it. I'm curious as to whether the polls will actually predict sales, but if they do, Bioware will actually lose a lot of money by charging more. Quick math suggests that they'd lose $700K per million potential customers. I'd expect that Bioware has better sales projections than the forum polls, but it would be interesting to see what percentage of people who download the hammerhead end up buying the DLC.

[TJSolo]

LoweGear wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...
You're funny, they constantly had things to say in the Normandy, to each other, about things around and in cutscenes. Beats ME2 by a mile.

The lack of conversations on elevators yes. On the Normandy however the ME1 crew worked in pretty much the same fashion as in ME2: You can only get significant conversations if you've actually completed a primary mission. People complain about Garrus always being in the middle of calibrations, but I also remember getting sidelined by Ashley whenever I sometimes wanted to talk to her in ME1 ("I should get back to work sir.").

The limitations of some interactions like the calibrations excuse are in both games.
ME2 beyond that limitation has even less banter during missions and less banter within after mission briefings.

With so many squaddies and interactions BW has shown in the past (Kotor,ME1, DAO) it looks like they missed out on including inter-squad dialogue.

Jack + Miranda, Thane + Samara, and Tali + Legion...are just some of the more obvious combinations.

[cruc1al]

Adakutay wrote...

cruc1al ,

Suppose I couldn't explain myself well.

Ok I get what you mean. On the whole, one new character doesn't add much value to the whole game; not nearly enough to be measured in dollars. In essence what we are paying for is Kasumi's loyalty mission. That's how I think about it.

[TJSolo]

cruc1al wrote...

Adakutay wrote...

cruc1al ,

Suppose I couldn't explain myself well.

Ok I get what you mean. On the whole, one new character doesn't add much value to the whole game; not nearly enough to be measured in dollars. In essence what we are paying for is Kasumi's loyalty mission. That's how I think about it.

7 bucks for a single mission. You have a horrible value system, but EA loves you for it.

[Maggot Alchemist]

Lol at people actually hating because of paid DLC. If you dont it like then just dont buy it, Nobody on this forum really cares if you do or not.

[TJSolo]

Maggot Alchemist wrote...

Lol at people actually hating because of paid DLC. If you dont it like then just dont buy it, Nobody on this forum really cares if you do or not.

It would be correct to say that YOU don't care about others opinions on this.
Bioware on the otherhand states they generally care and read the forums.

[Maggot Alchemist]

TJSolo wrote...

Maggot Alchemist wrote...

Lol at people actually hating because of paid DLC. If you dont it like then just dont buy it, Nobody on this forum really cares if you do or not.

It would be correct to say that YOU don't care about others opinions on this.
Bioware on the otherhand states they generally care and read the forums.

Seems like a lost cause since the majority will buy the DLC. Oh well at least it helps on other topics like more armor and weapons.

[GothamLord]

Kasumi was known month ago - fact!

Agreed

Kasumi was developed long time ago and parts of her are already on disc - fact!

A place holder and sound bites are on the disc along with files to allow her to be incorporated into the main game. Development was most likely not finished on her until after the game went "gold" so the definition of long time ago is subjective.

Kasumi`s place is obvious in the character tab, just like Zaeeds

Agreed

Kasumi won`t have any dialouge after the mission - fact!

Kasumi will not have INTERACTIVE dialouge on the Normandy. 

Kasumi is no LI, has no arguments with other teammembers, gives no updates and so adds nothing to the game - fact!

Have you used Zaeed in your squad on say the Garrus recruitment mission? He had a exclusive scene just for him if you try and talk to the Blue Sun leader there running things.  Thats just the one example off the top of my head.  I have no doubt there will be other minor scenes as such with Kasumi if people actually use her in the squad outside of her loyalty mission.  And heaven forbid shes not a damn LI.  Not every person in the galaxy should have to want to hump Shepard.

[TJSolo]

Maggot Alchemist wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Maggot Alchemist wrote...

Lol at people actually hating because of paid DLC. If you dont it like then just dont buy it, Nobody on this forum really cares if you do or not.

It would be correct to say that YOU don't care about others opinions on this.
Bioware on the otherhand states they generally care and read the forums.

Seems like a lost cause since the majority will buy the DLC. Oh well at least it helps on other topics like more armor and weapons.

What the majority of people will and won't buy remains to be seen as the pay2play DLC for ME2 has not even been launched.

[Bhaal]

cruc1al wrote...

Ok I get what you mean. On the whole, one new character doesn't add much value to the whole game; not nearly enough to be measured in dollars. In essence what we are paying for is Kasumi's loyalty mission. That's how I think about it.

On this we have different opinions. As a typical hardcore rpg fan I'll keep ME2 installed in my pc for a long time. And for the next two years game will be developing regularly. Paying 7 bucks for every 3 months won't be problem to me(not to mention future free DLCS) and from what I understand most people think in this way. If you don't like this concept you can spend that 2 hours at cinema for same price

I don't understand why should BW start developing DLCs only after the game's release? It's proper that they planned and even scheduled all the DLC's of coming years already. Without Kasumi content, vanilla game is still perfect and doesn't even feel mutilated or inadequate so why some people feel like they've been cheated?

Modifié par Adakutay, 14 mars 2010 - 09:37 .

[JaylaClark]

Maggot Alchemist wrote...

Lol at people actually hating because of paid DLC. If you dont it like then just dont buy it, Nobody on this forum really cares if you do or not.

Oh, well excuuuuuse me for making an attempt at holding BioWare to a higher standard .

Seriously, though, what's really unnerving me about this is, if they're charging seven dollars for realistically two missions, what are they gonna do with that last header we've all seen?  (That which has the words Liara and DLC in it.)

Are they going to throw only one or two missions at us for that price, or are they going to charge at that rate?  It's ideal bridging content in my admittedly biased opinion, but only if they -- yeah -- spend the time on it to do it well.  And I also think that in addition to getting Ali, Jen and Mark involved they should somehow get Rafael and Kim on it.  (Actually, new dialogue from all five actors, all three present characters, and I don't need much more game content to spend two thousand points on it.  Okay, more realistically 1600 -- $20 US -- but still, like I said, this is the core story we're talking about.)

But fine, you make a good point.  And after some careful consideration I think I might've been persuaded to drop 300 to 400 points on this, but 560 isn't likely to be worth it except if it gets some really rave reviews that I trust when it comes out.  I just want to make it clear, it's not that I won't buy any DLC for this game, just that this is not what I'll spend on.

... and I'd actually spend money on getting everybody into outfits that people might actually fight in.  AND maybe getting Spectre X gear... hell, just a better assault rifle; the Tempest is perfectly fine for me for my Vanguard.  Okay, that's it.  And a persuade to get Liara in one of those dancing -- okay, someone stop me!

[Andync86]

While i like the addition of a new character (and her loyalty mission sounds very fun) I just don't understand why they can't have dialogue like the "core characters" it makes them very obvious as a tacked on addition and in my opinion makes the player care about them much less.
Would it really have been so hard to record some more lines of voice acting to allow proper dialogue? I may still pick this up but I’m very disappointed that they have gone the Zaeed path with her especially as it sound like she will a
nice change from the other party members both in motivations and abilities.
I hope if they add any more party members they'll have a full set of conversations.
Apologies if this has been discussed to death previously, I did not have time to go through all the previous posts

Modifié par Andync86, 14 mars 2010 - 09:37 .

[CommanderShawn]

i would pay for the download, but i just don't want to pay for it

[Bhaal]

Andync86 wrote...

While i like the addition of a new character (and her loyalty mission sounds very fun) I just don't understand why they can't have dialogue like the "core characters" it makes them very obvious as a tacked on addition and in my opinion makes the player care about them much less.
Would it really have been so hard to record some more lines of voice acting to allow proper dialogue? I may still pick this up but I’m very disappointed that they have gone the Zaeed path with her especially as it sound like she will a
nice change from the other party members both in motivations and abilities.
I hope if they add any more party members they'll have a full set of conversations.
Apologies if this has been discussed to death previously, I did not have time to go through all the previous posts

Answer is simple: Unlike everybody loves to believe, BW didn't cut off cruical contents from ME2 in order to make us pay for which was rightfully ours to begin with.

DLCs are optional they are not to improve ME2 they simply expand it.

Making it more clear: Kasumi isn't a vital part of the game IT'S DLC, OPTIONAL, NOT NECESARY, NOT MUST BUY, NOT REQUERED, AND YES IT IS NOT A CONTENT SHOULD BE INCLUED IN THE VANILLA GAME(THATS WHY SHE HAVE NO CORE DIALOG OPTİONS).

Did nobody noticed the paradox of complaining about both Kasumi should be included in main game and also she doesn't feel like proper part of the game? If she was really looking like the other companions then it would simply mean that BW was charging us for a content should have been included in the main game.

Sorry, didn't mean charge at you.

Modifié par Adakutay, 14 mars 2010 - 10:23 .

[SethSteiner]

Yes DLC`s expand the game, but they just expand it to the level it was before they excluded it from the original game. It was obvious in Dragon Age, it`s obvious in Mass Effect 2. You need to be blind, if you can`t see that the whole DLC is a disaster that is against everything gamers want. Full games.