454 réponses à ce sujet

[Avissel]

Oh no, they are going to charge us for actual content q-q



Would you prefer the game was made by Bethesda and we had to pay money for Mako Armor?

[Ecael]

GothamLord wrote...
Stop thinking logically. You'll ruin all the whiners and jaded peoples arguments. How dare Bioward actually have planned DLC and put prep files on the discs to avoid massive downloads for the players.

I dont know why people expect a character that was most likely always DLC planned to have game shattering moments.

There is no new data to provide evidence for your allegations. However, previous histories of extranet websites reveal something remarkable.

Past commentary on the game's intended content at release suggests that BioWare's website once listed the possibility of 19 new weapons as well as 12 unique squad members:
http://social.biowar.../index/713058/6
http://meforums.biow...forum=144&sp=15
http://meforums.biow...90394&forum=144

The discussions allude to a time where this line existed on the main website, but was removed several months ago. It must be noted, however, that the description itself does not include any content received from DLC, but the content that ships with the actual game:
http://masseffect.bi...e.com/info/faq/

Mass Effect 2 will feature no less than 19 different weapons out of the box including the newly introduced heavy weapons. Check out the Arsenal section of the website for a look at some of the powerful new weapons you will be able to wield.

Those 19 available weapons do not include the Firestorm Heavy Weapon, which is now found lying on the floor of Zaeed's loyalty mission. This implies that the heavy weapon itself was designed to be a stand-alone release through the Cerberus Network, not unlike the other items that have been released. On the other hand, it signifies that the Zaeed and Kasumi characters were to be released with the game itself. The console platform website still quotes the release version of Mass Effect 2 on having 19 weapons and 12 squadmates, as well as several other websites:
http://www.xbox.com/.../m/masseffect2/
http://www.google.co... galaxy's most"

I cannot formulate an exact hypothesis on their motivations. After all, it is unclear whether this is the result of intentionally retaining content, the inability to finish said content, or the lack of space on console data discs. I can only confirm that Zaeed and Kasumi were not planned to be DLC. The appearance of a trailer in December nicknamed 'The Dirty Dozen' -- which does not refer to Shepard himself, but his allies -- further supports this idea.


Your logic is severely flawed, Shepard. Your ad hominem attacks toward the community are also unjustified.

Modifié par Ecael, 12 mars 2010 - 02:40 .

[Satanicfirewraith]

Zhijn wrote...

Very interesting!.

But why are you all saying its a cut that we'r paying for.
Couldnt it just be they added the files to the game for an easier transfer?.
Ah who am i kidding, its EA business 101.

No because back in July 09 it was said you collect a squad of a dozen of the galaxys most dangerous people... about Sept. (if I remember right) it stopped being called a dozen....
Then after the game launched it was 10 ingame squad members, with Zaeed added in (who was nothing but a joke..) Now they want us to pay for the 12th squadmate that was originally in game content...

YAY BW has assimalated perfectly into the house called EA. cut out content originally in the game to sell to us later.
BW's new slogan... Let us nickle and dime you for content you paided to have already.

Well this answers if I will by getting any of the paid content for ME2.... and no, I wont pay for stuff that should have been in the damn game to begin with. (this goes of alterative armor and weapons and upgrades and vehicles.)

[GothamLord]

I'm sorry I miss spoke. My earlier comment should have been... "How dare EA have planned DLC and forced BioWare to cut corners.." I do agree and believe that 12 characters we always planned but two were forced into DLC material during development.

[rayremy]

According to this:  xbox360.ign.com/articles/107/1076888p1.html

She will be similar to Zaeed as in you wont actually be able to have conversations with.

Second paragrath.

Modifié par rayremy, 12 mars 2010 - 02:44 .

[crimzontearz]

Passerby, it is not an assumption, I was presenting "if/then" scenarios.



Bioware's responses to direct questions about this subject have ranged from "no comment" to rather angry "none of your business"....of course totally their right to say that but it only increases suspicion.

[Avissel]

Ecael wrote...
Anybody else find ti asanine when he pretends to be EDI?

wether you agree with it or not, the process of with holding game content for purchase later is becoming a standard buisness practice. Now you can choose to believe that it is because they are all evil and hate you, or you can be a rationale human being and realise that sometimes you dont have enough time to finish all the things you want in a game and still be on time, so now they leave what they have on the disc, finish it and then sell it as DLC.

If your only two options are "Pay a little extra" or "Dont get it at all" which do you choose?

(If you try to make a counter argument to what I just said. For the love of God dont say "I would want it for free like it should be" the phrase "only two options" means "only two options")

[Tooneyman]

I want to know how much I'm going to have to pay to get her thats the question!

[GothamLord]

Okay. Heres a question for the masses. Who stamped the January release date on Mass Effect 2. Bioware or EA ?? If it was BioWare then they are more likely guilty of withholding content for money. If its EA then BioWare probably had plans for development that would have taken them well past the January date. EA said no way and came up with the Cerberus Network idea as a way to trickle out content and use it for paid content later down the line with the unfinished material that had to be shelved to meet the EA demanded deadline.

[TheTWF]

Unbelievable. All this free stuff and people still complain about the first thing they have to pay for.

[Ecael]

Avissel wrote...

Ecael wrote...
Anybody else find ti asanine when he pretends to be EDI?

wether you agree with it or not, the process of with holding game content for purchase later is becoming a standard buisness practice. Now you can choose to believe that it is because they are all evil and hate you, or you can be a rationale human being and realise that sometimes you dont have enough time to finish all the things you want in a game and still be on time, so now they leave what they have on the disc, finish it and then sell it as DLC.

If your only two options are "Pay a little extra" or "Dont get it at all" which do you choose?

(If you try to make a counter argument to what I just said. For the love of God dont say "I would want it for free like it should be" the phrase "only two options" means "only two options")

I think you just quoted yourself with my name on it...

Trying to take on the same kind of sentence structure and cold personality as EDI lets you rely on inductive reasoning rather than emotion-driven responses or insults. It's difficult to imitate it all the time, though.

I never stated that EA or BioWare is evil (others may have), but it does feel like there is a void between the two companies - one wants to please its shareholders, the other wants to please its customers. Neither goal could be considered 'evil'. It's understandable that games don't get entirely finished - the publisher is likely to set the deadline for the developer than the other way around. However, when it was constantly advertised that there was to be a 'dirty dozen' of squadmates, you would expect them to make up for what is essentially an incomplete game.

The option of "Don't get it at all" is not really much of an option, because this content is necessary for the game to feel complete. If it were a company like Blizzard or Valve (both of which have associations with EA or Activision as well), content like this would be included in a patch rather than DLC.

Okay. Heres a question for the masses. Who stamped the January release
date on Mass Effect 2. Bioware or EA ?? If it was BioWare then they are
more likely guilty of withholding content for money.

EA.

Unbelievable. All this free stuff and people still complain about the first thing they have to pay for.

You're either misinterpreting people's words or only focusing on the severe complaints. I'll quote myself from the past thread:

Ecael wrote...

In all seriousness, I don't think people seem to realize that the intention of free DLC is to add in the content that had to be cut to make a specific deadline.

This is a good thing -- Mass Effect 2 releases faster (instead of waiting an extra few months for the rest of the content) AND BioWare can finish the remaining content without having to throw it away.

Judging by the content that is in the game, this what they didn't finish in time:
-Normandy Crash Site
-Zaeed Massani
-Hammerhead/Firewalker (Vehicle controls are already in-game)
-Kasumi (Audio fully recorded, character and dossier already fleshed out)
-More weapons and armor

This is what they plan on releasing (that we know of) but hardly has any content in the game, and must be paid DLC:
-Liara-focused Shadow Broker DLC

Knowing this, the paid DLC should have started after Kasumi was released. Instead, the entire purpose of making this one DLC a paid one is to make this content seem like the trend for paid DLC. That way, people will go 'Hey, paid DLC is great too!' before BioWare releases something like Pinnacle Station or Return to Ostagar.

The true quality of post-release DLC will be seen after Kasumi is released.

Modifié par Ecael, 12 mars 2010 - 03:14 .

[RobbertDewulf]

GothamLord wrote...

Okay. Heres a question for the masses. Who stamped the January release date on Mass Effect 2. Bioware or EA ?? If it was BioWare then they are more likely guilty of withholding content for money. If its EA then BioWare probably had plans for development that would have taken them well past the January date. EA said no way and came up with the Cerberus Network idea as a way to trickle out content and use it for paid content later down the line with the unfinished material that had to be shelved to meet the EA demanded deadline.

I almost have no doubts that the absence of the hammerhead and stuff like that has happened because of EA.


But well, if Kasumi's better than Zaeed I'll be happy to receive the DLC, and eventually pay for it.

[ThePasserby]

Ecael wrote...

GothamLord wrote...
Stop thinking logically. You'll ruin all the whiners and jaded peoples arguments. How dare Bioward actually have planned DLC and put prep files on the discs to avoid massive downloads for the players.

I dont know why people expect a character that was most likely always DLC planned to have game shattering moments.

There is no new data to provide evidence for your allegations. However, previous histories of extranet websites reveal something remarkable.

Past commentary on the game's intended content at release suggests that BioWare's website once listed the possibility of 19 new weapons as well as 12 unique squad members:
http://social.biowar.../index/713058/6
http://meforums.biow...forum=144&sp=15
http://meforums.biow...90394&forum=144

The discussions allude to a time where this line existed on the main website, but was removed several months ago. It must be noted, however, that the description itself does not include any content received from DLC, but the content that ships with the actual game:
http://masseffect.bi...e.com/info/faq/

Mass Effect 2 will feature no less than 19 different weapons out of the box including the newly introduced heavy weapons. Check out the Arsenal section of the website for a look at some of the powerful new weapons you will be able to wield.

Those 19 available weapons do not include the Firestorm Heavy Weapon, which is now found lying on the floor of Zaeed's loyalty mission. This implies that the heavy weapon itself was designed to be a stand-alone release through the Cerberus Network, not unlike the other items that have been released. On the other hand, it signifies that the Zaeed and Kasumi characters were to be released with the game itself. The console platform website still quotes the release version of Mass Effect 2 on having 19 weapons and 12 squadmates, as well as several other websites:
http://www.xbox.com/.../m/masseffect2/
http://www.google.co... galaxy's most"

I cannot formulate an exact hypothesis on their motivations. After all, it is unclear whether this is the result of intentionally retaining content, the inability to finish said content, or the lack of space on console data discs. I can only confirm that Zaeed and Kasumi were not planned to be DLC. The appearance of a trailer in December nicknamed 'The Dirty Dozen' -- which does not refer to Shepard himself, but his allies -- further supports this idea.


Your logic is severely flawed, Shepard. Your ad hominem attacks toward the community are also unjustified.

Look, I know you've thus far been a productive member of the community, with your exploration of the many ways to end the game with the desired members surviving, and others. Your posts have thus far been fun and helpful to read, but this ... I'd rather not go into the nitty gritty details, but I might just have to, this time.

Your first two links are forum posts. What's your point? That there were people speculating about 12 squad members? I'll deal with this "12 squad mates" point further down.

Your next link is the FAQ. You highlighted the 19 weapons out of the box. Again, what is your point? If you're trying to use this to support your claim that the Firestorm is meant to be found in the game proper and not in the Zaeed DLC, your evidence is not strong enough. For all we know, by the time that FAQ was written, the Zaeed DLC was already planned to be a DLC that launches with the game, hence "out of the box". Therefore, this does not support your claim that Zaeed was not meant to be a DLC at the time of the FAQ.

As for that trailer "the Dirty Dozen", the twelth member can't be Morinth? She HAS to be Kasumi?

So, to summarize, you built your house of cards based on two premises:

1) the Firestorm being announced as being "out of the box".

2) there being 12 squadmates advertised.

The evidence for 1) is not as strong as you think, as Zaeed is very likely determined to be released with the game, hence it is not wrong to say that the weapon is found "out of the box". I don't know this for sure, but since you're claiming that Bioware is being a shenigan, the burden of proof is on you.

The evidence for 2) is even weaker. No mention was made about Kasumi in your "evidence" at all, just the mere mention of "12". So once again, you have to proof that Bioware is being unprincipled by proving that the twelth is Kasumi, and not Morinth.

[bjdbwea]

Technically, we paid for the Cerberus Network, with the clear promise of getting content through it. That we have. Though nothing of it would be missed, the promise has been fulfilled. But the fact remains, that the stuff wasn't really free. If you don't buy the game new, you have to pay for it anyway.

And the main problem is still that this Kasumi character was quite obviously supposed to be part of the main game, just like Zaeed. It was either deliberately cut to sell as DLC, or it was simply at some point decided to release the game earlier than it should have been, before both characters were finished. Both cases would not be acceptable, and because of that alone I wouldn't buy the content.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 12 mars 2010 - 03:19 .

[GothamLord]

Personally its a double edged sword here. So because EA forced BioWare to cut corners to meet a deadline that they set rather than BioWare would have based on planned content we are forced to be reduced to DLC for some very obvious material. Zaeed and Kasumi being part of the original Dirty Dozen, The HammerHead, and most likely the upcoming Liara DLC with the Shadow Broker. By buying DLC to finish the game experience BioWare had originally planned and continuing to fund BioWare I am also pretty much also putting money in the devil himself in EA.

[ThePasserby]

GothamLord wrote...

Personally its a double edged sword here. So because EA forced BioWare to cut corners to meet a deadline that they set rather than BioWare would have based on planned content we are forced to be reduced to DLC for some very obvious material. Zaeed and Kasumi being part of the original Dirty Dozen, The HammerHead, and most likely the upcoming Liara DLC with the Shadow Broker. By buying DLC to finish the game experience BioWare had originally planned and continuing to fund BioWare I am also pretty much also putting money in the devil himself in EA.

I don't see EA as the devil. EA and BioWare are businesses. But BioWare also happens to be a business that churns out very fun games. I have no problem paying for the DLC even if it was BioWare all along who cut Kasumi out. They made the game very fun and worth every cent I paid even without Kasumi in it. If the new DLC is priced within my own valuation, then I'll certainly buy it.

[Ecael]

ThePasserby wrote...

Look, I know you've thus far been a productive member of the community, with your exploration of the many ways to end the game with the desired members surviving, and others. Your posts have thus far been fun and helpful to read, but this ... I'd rather not go into the nitty gritty details, but I might just have to, this time.

Your first two links are forum posts. What's your point? That there were people speculating about 12 squad members? I'll deal with this "12 squad mates" point further down.

So, to summarize, you built your house of cards based on two premises:

1) the Firestorm being announced as being "out of the box".

2) there being 12 squadmates advertised.

Not just speculating - the BioWare website had the phrase 'Recruit up to 12 squadmates!' as well. The Internet Archive stores the BioWare website; if they could update it for dates less than a year then I would have linked that as well. The XBox link proves that it was BioWare's original intention.

Your next link is the FAQ. You highlighted the 19 weapons out of the box. Again, what is your point? If you're trying to use this to support your claim that the Firestorm is meant to be found in the game proper and not in the Zaeed DLC, your evidence is not strong enough. For all we know, by the time that FAQ was written, the Zaeed DLC was already planned to be a DLC that launches with the game, hence "out of the box". Therefore, this does not support your claim that Zaeed was not meant to be a DLC at the time of the FAQ.

The evidence for 1) is not as strong as you think, as Zaeed is very likely determined to be released with the game, hence it is not wrong to say that the weapon is found "out of the box".

That's why I pointed out the Firestorm Heavy Weapon - not that it is 'out of the box', but the phrase itself is defined is 'What is currently on the CD'. The Firestorm was never meant to be on the CD, but Zaeed and Kasumi were. Thus, having that weapon show up in his loyalty mission (on the floor with the label [M-451 Firestorm] instead of [M-451 Firestorm - 'Take']) suggests that this was a last minute decision.

As for that trailer "the Dirty Dozen", the twelth member can't be Morinth? She HAS to be Kasumi?

The evidence for 2) is even weaker. No mention was made about Kasumi in
your "evidence" at all, just the mere mention of "12". So once again,
you have to proof that Bioware is being unprincipled by proving that
the twelth is Kasumi, and not Morinth.

Zaeed and Kasumi go hand in hand - they are both DLC, and both are not 'out of the box'. Therefore, they should have either said "up to 11 squadmates" or "up to 13 squadmates" to remove Zaeed and Kasumi or to include Morinth. 'Up to 12 squadmates' means you can have 12 squadmates with you in one instance - or it wouldn't really be called the 'dirty dozen'. Samara and Morinth are mutually exclusive.

I don't know this for sure, but since you're claiming that Bioware is being a shenigan, the burden of proof is on you.

I'm not sure what you mean about me calling BioWare a shenanigan, but I'm trying to point out here that most people are very willing to pay for DLC - but people like myself were expecting to do so right after Kasumi was released.

So because EA forced BioWare to cut corners to meet a deadline that they set rather than BioWare would have based on planned content we are forced to be reduced to DLC for some very obvious material. Zaeed and
Kasumi being part of the original Dirty Dozen, The HammerHead, and most likely the upcoming Liara DLC with the Shadow Broker.

The Liara DLC was always meant to be paid, I believe. There are very few things that can be datamined from the game other than a few sound clips (which does not include the mission dialogue) and a few triggers set in place in Illium. The name LiaraDLC is there, but the content is close to non-existant right now.

Also, the mission itself seems to be isolated from everything else - more like a side mission of sorts. It doesn't seem like Liara will be recruitable either.

Modifié par Ecael, 12 mars 2010 - 03:31 .

[GothamLord]

Ecael wrote...



The Liara DLC was always meant to be paid, I believe. There are very few things that can be datamined from the game other than a few sound clips (which does not include the mission dialogue) and a few triggers set in place in Illium. The name LiaraDLC is there, but the content is close to non-existant right now.



Also, the mission itself seems to be isolated from everything else - more like a side mission of sorts. It doesn't seem like Liara will be recruitable either.

I mentioned the Liara DLC because of the hidden files in the game. By alot of the arguments that relate to Kasumi are that shes already in the game, so with that logic so is the Liara / Shadow Broker scenario. However its obviously that there is very little other than the mentioned triggers and sound clips. I have no false notion that Liara is recruitable either. If people can understand the idea of leaving files present either as having been incomplete or pre-loaded for later use on Liara its not far fetched on the other game material.



Again I totally agree that BioWare planned on an original dozen squadmates. Its pretty clear looking at things too if people pay attention that Big Daddy EA came in said they want things done by a certain date which forced BioWare to make development choices that have resulted in what some may call ****** poor DLC. So my statement on part of my earlier comment was improperly worded.

[Ecael]

GothamLord wrote...

I mentioned the Liara DLC because of the hidden files in the game. By alot of the arguments that relate to Kasumi are that shes already in the game, so with that logic so is the Liara / Shadow Broker scenario. However its obviously that there is very little other than the mentioned triggers and sound clips. I have no false notion that Liara is recruitable either. If people can understand the idea of leaving files present either as having been incomplete or pre-loaded for later use on Liara its not far fetched on the other game material.

Again I totally agree that BioWare planned on an original dozen squadmates. Its pretty clear looking at things too if people pay attention that Big Daddy EA came in said they want things done by a certain date which forced BioWare to make development choices that have resulted in what some may call ****** poor DLC. So my statement on part of my earlier comment was improperly worded.

Well, I'm going by the idea that you could wipe the Liara DLC out of existence and no one would ever notice it (although Liara fans would still be angry). If Kasumi was never released, we'd still see that empty space on the character selection screen all the time, and that 'dirty dozen' would never be complete.

[ThePasserby]

Ecael wrote....

That's why I pointed out the Firestorm Heavy Weapon - not that it is 'out of the box', but the phrase itself is defined is 'What is currently on the CD'. The Firestorm was never meant to be on the CD, but Zaeed and Kasumi were. Thus, having that weapon show up in his loyalty mission (on the floor with the label [M-451 Firestorm] instead of [M-451 Firestorm - 'Take']) suggests that this was a last minute decision.

Why does "out of the box" have to mean "what is currently on the CD"? You got the Cerberus Network card, and hence the Zaeed DLC, from the box, didn't you?

Zaeed and Kasumi go hand in hand - they are both DLC, and both are not 'out of the box'. Therefore, they should have either said "up to 11 squadmates" or "up to 13 squadmates" to remove Zaeed and Kasumi or to include Morinth. 'Up to 12 squadmates' means you can have 12 squadmates with you in one instance - or it wouldn't really be called the 'dirty dozen'. Samara and Morinth are mutually exclusive.

Up to 12 squadmates can also mean that you recruit 11, and then kill Samara to get Morinth. There, you've met all 12 sqaudmates. You can't recruit 12 at once, but 12 recruitable squadmates are certainly there.

[GothamLord]

Last I checked "Up to" implied a maximum. Up to 12 would not mean get 11 and then replace one of them thus still maintaining 11.

[DRACO1130]

ChampDude wrote...

http://www.joystiq.c...s-on-apr-6-don/

I wonder how much it shall cost?

How can/does some posts in the forum contain screen shpots with Kasumi ALreADY in the team if she hasn't been released as yet ?
:happy: I want !

[ThePasserby]

GothamLord wrote...

Last I checked "Up to" implied a maximum. Up to 12 would not mean get 11 and then replace one of them thus still maintaining 11.

To me, it just means there are 12 unique squadmates. But even if Kasumi was taken out in the final stages of development, we all bought the game on the premise that we get the squadmates as advertised on the ME2 website - those 11 + Morinth.

[Ecael]

DRACO1130 wrote...

ChampDude wrote...

http://www.joystiq.c...s-on-apr-6-don/

I wonder how much it shall cost?

How can/does some posts in the forum contain screen shpots with Kasumi ALreADY in the team if she hasn't been released as yet ?
:happy: I want !

That's a placeholder model - her face is generated by the character creator and her clothing is the same as Morinth's. Michael Gamble posted on the other Kasumi thread, so it appears that her voice may be a placeholder as well.

[DRACO1130]

Ecael wrote...

DRACO1130 wrote...

ChampDude wrote...

http://www.joystiq.c...s-on-apr-6-don/

I wonder how much it shall cost?

How can/does some posts in the forum contain screen shpots with Kasumi ALreADY in the team if she hasn't been released as yet ?
:happy: I want !

That's a placeholder model - her face is generated by the character creator and her clothing is the same as Morinth's. Michael Gamble posted on the other Kasumi thread, so it appears that her voice may be a placeholder as well.

Thanks !