62 réponses à ce sujet

[CrazyShuba]

In ME2, I kinda felt bad for her, and could actually see my Shepard getting in a relationship with her.

However, do I feel an attraction or love for her? No, it's a damn video game character.

If you're obsessing over a character in a game, you need to get out more.

[Bann Duncan]

JulianusApostate wrote...

Quite the contrary. I've always been something of a xenophobe (blame Warhammer 40k). I fully agreed with Ashley Williams when she compared aliens to dogs, in respect to them not being as important as a human. But Tali's character grew on me. I actually felt guilty not giving her more respect. (Yes, yes it's a game, but I really like the writing Bioware does, and I tend to get into it)

Though I like Tali best, I think it's safe to say the majority of the fanbase is almost entirely detached from reality,

Actually, she compared humans to dogs (not in a negative way, but she did all the same). You completely misunderstood the statement.

[JulianusApostate]

Bann Duncan wrote...

JulianusApostate wrote...

Quite the contrary. I've always been something of a xenophobe (blame Warhammer 40k). I fully agreed with Ashley Williams when she compared aliens to dogs, in respect to them not being as important as a human. But Tali's character grew on me. I actually felt guilty not giving her more respect. (Yes, yes it's a game, but I really like the writing Bioware does, and I tend to get into it)

Though I like Tali best, I think it's safe to say the majority of the fanbase is almost entirely detached from reality,

Actually, she compared humans to dogs (not in a negative way, but she did all the same). You completely misunderstood the statement.

I hate to be petty sir, but I cannot let an insult against my memory stand: "If you and your dog are attacked by a grizzly bear, then the only chance you have is to sic your dog on it and run... I mean, as much as you love your dog, it isn't human, right?" -Ashley Williams on aliens.

[Bann Duncan]

JulianusApostate wrote...

Bann Duncan wrote...

JulianusApostate wrote...

Quite the contrary. I've always been something of a xenophobe (blame Warhammer 40k). I fully agreed with Ashley Williams when she compared aliens to dogs, in respect to them not being as important as a human. But Tali's character grew on me. I actually felt guilty not giving her more respect. (Yes, yes it's a game, but I really like the writing Bioware does, and I tend to get into it)

Though I like Tali best, I think it's safe to say the majority of the fanbase is almost entirely detached from reality,

Actually, she compared humans to dogs (not in a negative way, but she did all the same). You completely misunderstood the statement.

I hate to be petty sir, but I cannot let an insult against my memory stand: "If you and your dog are attacked by a grizzly bear, then the only chance you have is to sic your dog on it and run... I mean, as much as you love your dog, it isn't human, right?" -Ashley Williams on aliens.

She was using that metaphor to show what the council races (you) would do if the humans (your dog) were attacked. It's still an anti-alien statement, but in a political sense.

Ask the writers if you don't believe me.

[JulianusApostate]

Well I'll have to replay it, because this is bothering me more than it should. The only other evidence I can remember in my favor is that immediately afterward she defends it saying "It's not racism - not really", and I don't think she'd be defending the council's position.

[JulianusApostate]

We're going to have to agree to disagree, I feel like this pretty much proves my point. http://rutube.ru/tra...025166c3034337e

[Timbama]

They are about to go on a suicide mission without knowing if they will survive, and she heavily wants to show you how she really looks and feel you. Their love is stronger than all doubts and dangers, so it´s not just for lust.

[OneBadAssMother]

Characters are written to be believable, brought to life with incredible graphics and voice-acting. It's hard not to have an emotional response. My wife smacked me senseless for not telling her about Alistair in Dragon Age for example (don't want to reveal the spoiler, but it was towards the end). Bioware is great at channeling emotional responses. (BTW, I didnt even have any idea her character was going to get d------)



Tali is just another one. I don't think people should be so quick to judge others who are adoring one of Bioware's great characters and the storyline behind them. Heck, fans at a concert can love their fav bands, but fans of Bioware characters who love their fav characters need to "get a life"? Heh.

[Bann Duncan]

JulianusApostate wrote...

We're going to have to agree to disagree, I feel like this pretty much proves my point. http://rutube.ru/tra...025166c3034337e

Sorry but I don't speak Russian. I plan on studying it at some stage should I get the chance, but for now that link is useless.

Anyway, Ashley was not defending the council - that's not what I'm saying. She's explaining that she thinks to the council, humans are like a dog that is causing trouble and who they don't really care for. When she says 'It's not racism,' she's saying not trusting the council is not racism becuase the reason for not trusting them is they don't care for humans.

[Axterix]

JulianusApostate wrote...

Well I'll have to replay it, because this is bothering me more than it should. The only other evidence I can remember in my favor is that immediately afterward she defends it saying "It's not racism - not really", and I don't think she'd be defending the council's position.

Basic world (well, universe) view.  The council, being non-humans, would rather have humanity chewed up than their own races.  And she, being human, would rather have their races chewed up than humanity.

She doesn't consider herself racist and therefore, their view isn't racist.  If she did consider their viewpoint racist but not her own, she'd be a hypocrite.  She isn't though.  From her viewpoint, that is the way the universe operates.  Everyone cares more about what impacts them more (their own species) than something further removed (other species).  It was what she would do, so naturally, what they would do as well.

That said, Ashley is a bit of a xenophobe, though she'd phrase it more as a positive (doing what she can to raise earth up) than a negative (pushing others down).

If you are looking for an example of anti-alien though, her worst line though is probably from the end game, when you're deciding whether or not to save the council.

shandapared wrote...

Ask yourself this; if they were so noble why would they have the
Spectres? The Spectres are basically secret police, accountable to no
one, who can murder, cheat, and lie at will. How would feel if the
leader of your country had a smiliar organization answerable only to
him?

Pretty much every major government has something similar.  Shadow organizations that act in what they view is the best interests of their country, often hiding such actions or the methods used from their bosses to attain plausabile deniability and/or avoid oversight that wouldn't approve of what and how they did things.  That way, people can feel good about themselves, while ugly things that "need" doing still get done. 

Overall, the Council probably has better control over it than most governments.  They sanction it and therefore their operatives tell them what they do and why.  As opposed to most benign governments, who follow more of a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

The Spectres aren't as free as you'd imagine.  The Spectres are accountable to the Council and the Council is strict in who it makes a Spectre and will revoke the status if the actions warrant it.  Basically, Spectres have a lot of leeway, as long as they can justify their actions with results.  But one couldn't go out and nuke a city on a whim one day, just to relieve to some boredom, and expect no consequences.

[Bann Duncan]

Axterix wrote...
If you are looking for an example of anti-alien though, her worst line though is probably from the end game, when you're deciding whether or not to save the council.

I agree that Ashley is a bit anti-alien, but the "Kill"/"Don't Kill" urging from squadmates in the Rachni and endgame situations don't really count as evidence of their views as they are simply there to have one person for and one against. I've had pretty much every squadmate urge each position at the endgame. It's completely random.