1809 réponses à ce sujet

[sirandar]

Attack of the really good looking, body shaved men ...........

[Lightice_av]

Not true!



Atheists don't have any set order of religious beliefs would be more accurate.



I have plenty of beliefs! I believe in freedom of choice for one thing.

Well, to paraphrase Robert Anton Wilson (the most awesome thinker of the 20th century!), "I don't believe in anything but I have many suspicions."

I would consider having moral guidelines different from having beliefs, but that goes over to semantics - another very interesting field of study, but a bit lengthy to deal with on internet forums.

[PyroFreak301]

HaloKT wrote...
 My belief is that everyone believes in something or wants to believe in something, thus rendering the whole atheism issue sort of moot.

 
Nihilism would like a quick word with you.

Atheists can be pretty obnoxious though.
...
Me, I'm agnostic. I'm open to the concept of a higher being, there just hasn't been an explanation I'm really content with. Both the scientific approach and all the religions have failed to deliver me an answer I can live with so far.

IMHO, people should believe what they want though. It's their life after all. If someone has found his personal salvation in Jesus Christ, more power to him! What I don't like however are the churches built around beliefs. When you turn something pure into an organisation, the purity will be replaced by greed and a lust for power. It's just human nature. Then laws are put in place, and before you know it, some ethnical group is suddenly the bogeyman because they're different. Women, homosexuals, people who just happen to have red hair... churches are evil. Beliefs are awesome though, as long as they're kept on an individual basis.

Everyone can be obnoxious, regardless of the subject. I'll discuss the religion subject reasonably with anyone who's willing, but as soon as I come across a creationist some obnoxious moron takes over and I find myself arguing pointlessly for hours.

[Collider]

CShep25 wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

I have no beef with atheists, but when they persist in enforcing their beliefs on me without provocation, it riles me up.

Er, atheists don't have any beliefs. That's what atheism is: not believing. And where is atheism being enforced, anyway? Soviet Russia claimed to do so, but they just turned to worship the Party, instead. I've never heard anybody enforcing true atheism, and it would be pretty impossible to do so if you tried.

Well believing in nothing is still a belief.

Atheists don't believe in nothing. "God" is not everything. I can believe in evolution or buddhism for example, despite being an atheist.

In addition, not believing in something doesn't equal a belief. You don't believe that leprechauns exist, is that a belief? Not necessarily. I don't believe that there are aliens with 4 eyes somewhere in the universe, but it doesn't mean that I believe there are NO aliens with 4 eyes somewhere in the universe.

[Ryzaki]

Lightice_av wrote...

Not true!

Atheists don't have any set order of religious beliefs would be more accurate.

I have plenty of beliefs! I believe in freedom of choice for one thing.

Well, to paraphrase Robert Anton Wilson (the most awesome thinker of the 20th century!), "I don't believe in anything but I have many suspicions."
I would consider having moral guidelines different from having beliefs, but that goes over to semantics - another very interesting field of study, but a bit lengthy to deal with on internet forums.

Collinder said this better than I could...

[BlueSuns]

[Collider]

Atheists can be pretty obnoxious though.

This is true of everyone. EVERYONE.

My belief is that everyone believes in something or wants to believe in something, thus rendering the whole atheism issue sort of moot. Me, I'm agnostic. I'm open to the concept of a higher being, there just hasn't been an explanation I'm really content with. Both the scientific approach and all the religions have failed to deliver me an answer I can live with so far.

Atheism and agnosticism aren't mutually exclusive. You are an atheist if you don't believe in any gods. An agnostic can also be an atheist. An agnostic, if you need to me to explain, is someone who believes that at least at the current moment, God is unknowable and/or unprovable. Agnosticism ISN'T the middle ground between atheism and theism.

Modifié par Collider, 13 mars 2010 - 12:34 .

[CShep25]

Em23 wrote...

If we were debating what colour is nicer, pink or blue, then you'd be right - we'd both have equally valid opinions. It's just a matter of taste, which can't be justified or invalidated by facts.

But creationism vs evolution doesn't fall into the same category. Creationism is scientifically implausible while evolution is backed up by tons of scientific evidence. In such cases, not all opinions are equal.

Personally, I'm more contemporary. Creationism as told in the bible seems too far fetched to hold any truth. But creation through the Big Bang holds some credence for me, so I validate my faith through science funnily enough. Catholic schools banning the theory of evolution is frownworthy, but traditionalists still have the right to believe whatever they want. Even scientologists have that right, even if today's culture seemingly despises the idea.

Science deals in facts and statistics. It's comfortable. Religion deals in faith, which is a lot more difficult for today's culture to fathom. Taking a step back from the comfort of fact is a bold move, and traditionalists shouldn't be mocked for it. Unfortunately, not many atheists truly grasp the concept of faith which makes it all the easier for them to discredit it. It all rolls back to the same point; respect people's right to have an opinion.

[sirandar]

Problem is, who is going to go about keeping this principle when one of the primary advantages of faith is the power of numbers.

HaloKT wrote...
Beliefs are awesome though, as long as they're kept on an individual basis.

[Ryzaki]

And I'm still laughing my ass off about the whole MShepZaeed thing.

[Cancermeat]

So this is how YOU people spend your friday nights.

[PyroFreak301]

I'm pretty sure the definition of belief has been discussed in pretty much every thread that I've looked at within the past week. It always end's up fizzling out with nothing but circling arguments that boil down to nothing more than semantics.

[sirandar]

CShep25 wrote...
Science deals in facts and statistics. It's comfortable. Religion deals in faith, which is a lot more difficult for today's culture to fathom. Taking a step back from the comfort of fact is a bold move, and traditionalists shouldn't be mocked for it. Unfortunately, not many atheists truly grasp the concept of faith which makes it all the easier for them to discredit it. It all rolls back to the same point; respect people's right to have an opinion.

True science is very very uncomfortable  .............  reality is always harder than fantasy ..... that's why we play Mass Effect

[PyroFreak301]

sirandar wrote...

CShep25 wrote...
Science deals in facts and statistics. It's comfortable. Religion deals in faith, which is a lot more difficult for today's culture to fathom. Taking a step back from the comfort of fact is a bold move, and traditionalists shouldn't be mocked for it. Unfortunately, not many atheists truly grasp the concept of faith which makes it all the easier for them to discredit it. It all rolls back to the same point; respect people's right to have an opinion.

True science is very very uncomfortable  .............  reality is always harder than fantasy ..... that's why we play Mass Effect

When looking at the incomprehensible size of even the observable universe, it's pretty difficult to sign up to a belief that says it was made entirely for our purpose.

Existential nihilism is the only true atheism!

[CShep25]

Who said it was made just for us? We just haven't discovered the asari and turians yet.

[didymos1120]

PyroFreak301 wrote...

I'm pretty sure the definition of belief has been discussed in pretty much every thread that I've looked at within the past week. It always end's up fizzling out with nothing but circling arguments that boil down to nothing more than semantics.

It's because it has multiple senses and people don't notice they're mixing them up, often in the space of single sentence. 

[addiction21]

didymos1120 wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Or, for a much simpler example, let's say you start proclaiming across the intarwebs that 1+1=3. Nope, sorry: your opinion just sucks. Time to take a math class. I'd surely love to know why you think that, but the opinion itself will never be anything but ridiculous.

1 + 1=waffles

That's an opinion worthy of respect.  If only for its sheer dadaist absurdity.

You say purty things...

[sirandar]

Imagine how some people feel about not being a a being crafted directly by a divine hand and instead having the a common ancestor with a Chimpanzee ..... those hairy smelly animals that play with themselves in zoos ...... I do declare ......... sighs and faints

PS. I don't have this view of chimps although what I wrote is sometimes the case ....

Modifié par sirandar, 13 mars 2010 - 12:48 .

[HaloKT]

Collider wrote...

Atheists can be pretty obnoxious though.

This is true of everyone. EVERYONE.

You are right, of course. But just because they do not have an organised church doesn't make them any less obnoxious is what I wanted to say

Atheism and agnosticism aren't mutually exclusive. You are an atheist if you don't believe in any gods. An agnostic can also be an atheist. An agnostic, if you need to me to explain, is someone who believes that at least at the current moment, God is unknowable and/or unprovable. Agnosticism ISN'T the middle ground between atheism and theism.

We had Latin and a bit of ancient Greek in school. I know what those words mean. I should've made myself clearer however and for that I apologise.
What I think is that every human tries to make up some sort of supernatural entity to believe in. In absence of such an entity, they will take whatever seems most plausible. Deity is mostly a matter of definition for me. One might even go so far as to add sciences to the list of deities for the sake of it.
I however am open to the concept of a supernatural being. Thus I am not an atheist per se. However, since I do not believe that any concept at this moment holds "the Truth", that would make me an agnostic.

Oh, and Nihilism doesn't exactly woo me either. It just doesn't sit well with human nature. But maybe that's just me *shrugs*

[Collider]

Humans do a great job of being nasty with all these wars. That we evolved from ape-like hominids isn't surprising.

[Lightice_av]

When looking at the incomprehensible size of even the observable universe, it's pretty difficult to sign up to a belief that says it was made entirely for our purpose.



Existential nihilism is the only true atheism!

No it's not. It just damn bugs me when a small sub-school of some philosophical branch claims that they're the "only true" X. Nihilists are boring and annoying. Not believing in anything doesn't equal having no hope or direction.

[sirandar]

[

Atheism and agnosticism aren't mutually exclusive. You are an atheist if you don't believe in any gods. An agnostic can also be an atheist. An agnostic, if you need to me to explain, is someone who believes that at least at the current moment, God is unknowable and/or unprovable. Agnosticism ISN'T the middle ground between atheism and theism.

Very very true

[addiction21]

sirandar wrote...

Imagine how some people feel about not being a a being crafted directly by a divine hand and instead having the a common ancestor with a Chimpanzee ..... those hairy smelly animals that play with themselves in zoos ...... I do declare ......... sighs and faints

PS. I don't have this view of chimps although what I wrote is sometimes the case ....

You just described a tenth of the human male population...  I think the conclusion is clear.   Men are pervs.

[Collider]

HaloKT wrote...
What I think is that every human tries to make up some sort of supernatural entity to believe in.

I don't get the impression of this. Most parts of the world have some supernatural beliefs, but that doesn't mean every human will think of something supernatural on their own.

I however am open to the concept of a supernatural being. Thus I am not an atheist per se.

It doesn't matter whether you're open to the concept or not. What matters is whether you believe in a deity. If you don't, you're an atheist. What constitutes as a deity is up to you.

[PyroFreak301]

CShep25 wrote...

Who said it was made just for us? We just haven't discovered the asari and turians yet.

Isn't the general gist of the bible that the earth was created for mankind? Everything also revolved around the earth according to the bible. I don't have to take it literally to interpret that they thought the earth was the reason for the universe.

When they got things so many horribly wrong in that book, I don't see any reason why the message of their God should still ring true. But hey, that's only my opinion.